Merlin
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Just breaking now:
Lockheed Team Wins Presidential Chopper
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a surprise move, the U.S. Navy has chosen a
transatlantic team led by Lockheed Martin Corp. to build a new U.S.
presidential helicopter fleet in a deal valued at well over $1 billion,
several congressional sources said on Friday.
The decision was a stunning setback for Connecticut-based United
Technologies Corp.'s Sikorsky Aircraft unit -- which for nearly 50
years has
built and maintained the green and white "Marine One" helicopters that
fly
the president.
Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, announced the decision in a
press
release, saying Lockheed's victory would bring hundreds of new jobs to
its
Owego, New York plant.
Lockheed, the Pentagon's No. 1 supplier, is pushing a spin-off of a
three-engined EH101 helicopter made by AgustaWestland Inc., an
Anglo-Italian
unit of Italy's Finmeccanica SpA . Fort Worth, Texas-based Textron
Inc.'s
Bell Helicopter is the other big partner.
The contract could also give Lockheed a boost when the Air Force next
year
orders 194 search and rescue helicopters that could be worth more than
$6
billion.
In addition, the winner would have bragging rights that could help sell
another 200 helicopters to the U.S. Coast Guard and Department of
Homeland
Security, plus any overseas bounce.
--
Lockheed Team Wins Presidential Chopper
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a surprise move, the U.S. Navy has chosen a
transatlantic team led by Lockheed Martin Corp. to build a new U.S.
presidential helicopter fleet in a deal valued at well over $1 billion,
several congressional sources said on Friday.
The decision was a stunning setback for Connecticut-based United
Technologies Corp.'s Sikorsky Aircraft unit -- which for nearly 50
years has
built and maintained the green and white "Marine One" helicopters that
fly
the president.
Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, announced the decision in a
press
release, saying Lockheed's victory would bring hundreds of new jobs to
its
Owego, New York plant.
Lockheed, the Pentagon's No. 1 supplier, is pushing a spin-off of a
three-engined EH101 helicopter made by AgustaWestland Inc., an
Anglo-Italian
unit of Italy's Finmeccanica SpA . Fort Worth, Texas-based Textron
Inc.'s
Bell Helicopter is the other big partner.
The contract could also give Lockheed a boost when the Air Force next
year
orders 194 search and rescue helicopters that could be worth more than
$6
billion.
In addition, the winner would have bragging rights that could help sell
another 200 helicopters to the U.S. Coast Guard and Department of
Homeland
Security, plus any overseas bounce.
--
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Now that the yanks have bought Merlin I suppose the Mk1 can kiss goodbye to it's long awaited spares as Agusta/Westlands will be bending over backwards to please it's new best friend !!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I knew it, its the Pilot's fault. We should fire them all, then the Engineers can work on the cabs in the hangar to their hearts content without ever having the added pressure of making the aircraft serviceable to fly. And everyone will be happy, because we can wait as long as we like for the "spares to support the intial design " to be delivered, and the parts that were hugely over-estimated in their expected life won't wear out, 'cos we won't be using them.
Yes the drivers are the true villains for expecting too much of the machine they risk their lives in.
Selecting sarcasm off, resuming Sunday afternoon.
Yes the drivers are the true villains for expecting too much of the machine they risk their lives in.
Selecting sarcasm off, resuming Sunday afternoon.
Last edited by Duncan Bucket; 30th Jan 2005 at 16:03.
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It seems that the "c#*p" Merlin appears to have beaten off competition from one of the worlds biggest helicopter manufacturers. Can't be that bad if they are prepared to fly George Dubya round in it! 
"Don't blame the procurers or the loggies......."
Good post Jungly. Spot on. Too many requirements are articulated, and hence funding dictated, without support specialist input. As approx 70% of through life costs are in the In-Service Support phase, if you get it wrong up front, it's always wrong. The recent move in DPA to be more strict and trade out performance (not just time and cost) is a direct result of what you describe.
Good post Jungly. Spot on. Too many requirements are articulated, and hence funding dictated, without support specialist input. As approx 70% of through life costs are in the In-Service Support phase, if you get it wrong up front, it's always wrong. The recent move in DPA to be more strict and trade out performance (not just time and cost) is a direct result of what you describe.
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Trying to gauge the level of support required of a new aircraft is notoriously difficult as has been shown by C130J, Merlin and Apache. We haven't really even solved the problem with Sea Kings 30 years on. This is not somebodies FAULT but just a fact of the business were in.
Personally the VX1 decision is, I believe, a good piece of news for UK plc and if the Yanks build a better version I am sure (like the GR7) we may just buy it back.
Quantity of aircraft ordered WILL lead to a reduction in costs of unit spares and if the other orders for USAF and USCG go the same way will make the aircraft a truly global product.
Oh and for those of you who always slag this aircraft off - the US101 won this competition against the odds on MERIT.
I rest my case on all previous posts the US NAVY procurement system has proved it.
Personally the VX1 decision is, I believe, a good piece of news for UK plc and if the Yanks build a better version I am sure (like the GR7) we may just buy it back.
Quantity of aircraft ordered WILL lead to a reduction in costs of unit spares and if the other orders for USAF and USCG go the same way will make the aircraft a truly global product.
Oh and for those of you who always slag this aircraft off - the US101 won this competition against the odds on MERIT.
I rest my case on all previous posts the US NAVY procurement system has proved it.
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Am I just being cynical in thinking that political machinations may have had a hand in the US buying a brit Helo after our long and expensive support of US foreign adventures?
I suspect they, quite rightly, think they can solve bthe problems because they are not a cottage industry
I suspect they, quite rightly, think they can solve bthe problems because they are not a cottage industry
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SI-CLIK..............I heartily agree with everything you say in the defence of Merlin, and I also believe it is a cracking bit of kit. We just need the stores/logistic support to catch up, then it will prove itself in the Fleet, and all the naysayers can have a huge slice of humble pie..................
However, I must correct you on one small fact. HMX-1 is the US Marine Corps Sqn that flies Dubya around, and is the Test and Evaluation Sqn for the USMC. They are the one's who had a hand in the decision. VX-1 conducts similar testing and evaluation, but for the US Navy, and so are busy with other aircraft types. Unlike us poor relations, the USMC and USN are completly seperate forces, and never the twain shall meet.
You learn something new everyday.............
However, I must correct you on one small fact. HMX-1 is the US Marine Corps Sqn that flies Dubya around, and is the Test and Evaluation Sqn for the USMC. They are the one's who had a hand in the decision. VX-1 conducts similar testing and evaluation, but for the US Navy, and so are busy with other aircraft types. Unlike us poor relations, the USMC and USN are completly seperate forces, and never the twain shall meet.
You learn something new everyday.............
Si Clic.... get back to the real world!!
"Oh and for those of you who always slag this aircraft off - the US101 won this competition against the odds on MERIT."
The USA choice of 'US101' was not made on merit alone. It is a crum of thanks for UK's adventure in Dubya's Iraq war. Nothing more, nothing less.
Until the RN is provided with adequate stores and engineering resources, Merlin will remain an outrageously expensive solution to a pretty basic problem (embarked ASW/ASuW/HDS, etc, etc.)
"Oh and for those of you who always slag this aircraft off - the US101 won this competition against the odds on MERIT."
The USA choice of 'US101' was not made on merit alone. It is a crum of thanks for UK's adventure in Dubya's Iraq war. Nothing more, nothing less.
Until the RN is provided with adequate stores and engineering resources, Merlin will remain an outrageously expensive solution to a pretty basic problem (embarked ASW/ASuW/HDS, etc, etc.)
Suspicion breeds confidence
It looks like the UK workshare will be 20% or less, so its not that huge. It is arguably the most prestigeous project going, so well done. I hope they spend more time in the air than ours do. 
junglyAEO, I applaud your optimism about getting our hands on a bunch of E2Cs, but I don\'t think there\'s a hope in hells chance of it ever happening. The SK 7 platform has turned out to be much better than we expected. It does have big limitations in covering deep strikes however. I also don\'t see any practical method of landing and E2 on CVF, unless we end up with a CTOL CVF.
junglyAEO, I applaud your optimism about getting our hands on a bunch of E2Cs, but I don\'t think there\'s a hope in hells chance of it ever happening. The SK 7 platform has turned out to be much better than we expected. It does have big limitations in covering deep strikes however. I also don\'t see any practical method of landing and E2 on CVF, unless we end up with a CTOL CVF.
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Hear, Hear Si Clik...........
And if there was more than a hint of truth that US101 won on the back of TB's support, who cares. But then that would overlook that US101 was arguably the better fit for the spec required............?
Logistic Support ...... OK, there have been some issues and these will continue. There is however an element of 'you get what you pay for' here and Merlin is no different to any other product or service, it costs what it costs - so if appropriate funding is missing or the scaling somehow deficient.......... ????
The future....... from economy of scale savings to some radical MLUs...... exciting prospects although these won't feed through until the next decade.....
Finally, when the government of the day says jump (or in this case, buy) the MOD is almost duty-bound to say how high (or in this case, how many) rather than why........ Still, in terms of capability, Merlin has something new to bring to the party - just got to think beyond the existing party scenario perhaps.... ??
And if there was more than a hint of truth that US101 won on the back of TB's support, who cares. But then that would overlook that US101 was arguably the better fit for the spec required............?
Logistic Support ...... OK, there have been some issues and these will continue. There is however an element of 'you get what you pay for' here and Merlin is no different to any other product or service, it costs what it costs - so if appropriate funding is missing or the scaling somehow deficient.......... ????
The future....... from economy of scale savings to some radical MLUs...... exciting prospects although these won't feed through until the next decade.....
Finally, when the government of the day says jump (or in this case, buy) the MOD is almost duty-bound to say how high (or in this case, how many) rather than why........ Still, in terms of capability, Merlin has something new to bring to the party - just got to think beyond the existing party scenario perhaps.... ??
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The USA choice of 'US101' was not made on merit alone. It is a crum of thanks for UK's adventure in Dubya's Iraq war. Nothing more, nothing less.
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WEBF - good post fella. I think that the majority of job losses at Wastelands are in the rotable section. i.e. Transmissions and drive shafts. Which makes sense as WHL won the contract to build the airframes and R.Blades.
I will be very interested to see how the companies fortunes pan out should they not win F Lynx and like youre link states, the NH90 wins the day.
I will be very interested to see how the companies fortunes pan out should they not win F Lynx and like youre link states, the NH90 wins the day.