Nav to Airline Pilot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Yorkshire
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Good banter
Artyhug
I like my chips with mayo!
6-9 years applies to a few, but some got chopped as navs and then crossed over. Well done to them!
"And before you come back with a petulant response yes we do know what we're talking about because training your Wonder Navs to be pilots is our job."
And training your wonder pilots to be F3 pilots and NAVS was mine!
Deliverance
"The fact that a lot a navs want to crossover kind of proves my point doesn't it?"
Most of us would like a job in 5 years! I may be serving big macs!
"As for crossover navs, how many after a second bite of the cherry eventually get chopped on an OCU? Too many me thinks."
Don't think that many actually! Otherwise would the scheme have been worth it?
Santiago15
Thanks for correcting me, and yes, the banter is good!
Seriously, I think a Nav leaving at the age of 38 has a real mountain to climb. Apart from the old brain and reactions slowing down, there is the cost of the training to consider, together with the lack of a marketable type rating. Competition for jobs is very stiff and most airlines won't look at anyone with less than 1500 hours. Unless a real pilot shortage develops, I suggest accumulating as many brownie points as possible and aiming for the top of the promotion ladder.
Oh really?
I heard only yesterday of an entirely self-funded Air Engineer who's just been offered a job with a well-repected turboprop airline. No FI rating, no zillions of hours up and down East Florida in a clapped-out C152, just a plain vanilla fATPL.....
Top of the military dunghill? With all the associated stress that goes with it these days.....?? Perhaps running some god-awful Det in whichever country Trust-me-Tone has dutifully followed the Mad Cowboy into? With bugger all chance of any more time in the cockpit?
Or fly for the airlines..? Now that the RAF isn't what many people chose to join, that decision is perhaps easier to make than it was even 5 years ago.
I heard only yesterday of an entirely self-funded Air Engineer who's just been offered a job with a well-repected turboprop airline. No FI rating, no zillions of hours up and down East Florida in a clapped-out C152, just a plain vanilla fATPL.....
Top of the military dunghill? With all the associated stress that goes with it these days.....?? Perhaps running some god-awful Det in whichever country Trust-me-Tone has dutifully followed the Mad Cowboy into? With bugger all chance of any more time in the cockpit?
Or fly for the airlines..? Now that the RAF isn't what many people chose to join, that decision is perhaps easier to make than it was even 5 years ago.
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I left the RAF over 5 years ago after being a frustrated pilot in the back for nearly 20 years. I became a flying instructor and after 500 hours instructing I got a job as a turbo prop pilot which was a great way to learn the craft. After a couple of years I joined my present company where I see myself staying for the rest of my flying days.
To start with I would strongly suggest if you are going to do it then read very carefully the JAR licencing rules that cover the length of validity for your ground school and flying exams. Make sure you do not fall foul of exams that you have already taken becoming void because they have "timed out". Then get your finances together. You really do need to plan the timing and finances very carefully, there are so many people who run out of time/money along the way. Ideally you need to start 3 years before your exit date so that you can work through all the groundschool and flying tests whilst still in the RAF ending up doing your IR during your resettlement period.
As has been said by others don't be too ambitious as to your ability to retrain at your 38 point. There are people of your(our) background who are failing to get on line with jet operators. I am now on the recruiting team and we are begining to see a higher failure rate from second career DEPs as present strong recruitment demand means some pilots can jump straight into higher paid jet operators as their first job rather than take a more cautious route through a Turbo Prop operator.
Make sure you have the support of your family as there will be signicant sacrifices along the way.
The industry is very fickle and can turnaround in a matter of a few weeks yet you have to plan your training 2-3 years ahead of your exit; so much is down to timing. T & Cs are becoming tighter for all operators so it might not be the lifestyle you hope for. Your background will help you stand out on paper with your application form and interview. But remember all the company want is as near a certainty as possible that the person in front of them will pass the groundschool/sim and get on line without requiring extra resources.
I am trying to give you a balanced picture.
Best of luck.
PS. Do I regret leaving the RAF and becoming an airline pilot....not for a moment.
To start with I would strongly suggest if you are going to do it then read very carefully the JAR licencing rules that cover the length of validity for your ground school and flying exams. Make sure you do not fall foul of exams that you have already taken becoming void because they have "timed out". Then get your finances together. You really do need to plan the timing and finances very carefully, there are so many people who run out of time/money along the way. Ideally you need to start 3 years before your exit date so that you can work through all the groundschool and flying tests whilst still in the RAF ending up doing your IR during your resettlement period.
As has been said by others don't be too ambitious as to your ability to retrain at your 38 point. There are people of your(our) background who are failing to get on line with jet operators. I am now on the recruiting team and we are begining to see a higher failure rate from second career DEPs as present strong recruitment demand means some pilots can jump straight into higher paid jet operators as their first job rather than take a more cautious route through a Turbo Prop operator.
Make sure you have the support of your family as there will be signicant sacrifices along the way.
The industry is very fickle and can turnaround in a matter of a few weeks yet you have to plan your training 2-3 years ahead of your exit; so much is down to timing. T & Cs are becoming tighter for all operators so it might not be the lifestyle you hope for. Your background will help you stand out on paper with your application form and interview. But remember all the company want is as near a certainty as possible that the person in front of them will pass the groundschool/sim and get on line without requiring extra resources.
I am trying to give you a balanced picture.
Best of luck.
PS. Do I regret leaving the RAF and becoming an airline pilot....not for a moment.
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PH
Thanks for the considered wise words. As a Nav approaching the point of no return it is a prime option. Out of interest, what would be the approx cost to go through from scratch and which company has the best rep?
Interested.
Giant Swede
Thanks for the considered wise words. As a Nav approaching the point of no return it is a prime option. Out of interest, what would be the approx cost to go through from scratch and which company has the best rep?
Interested.
Giant Swede
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Strato Q
An ex-Air Eng, I left 4 years ago aged 40 and with only 250hrs got my first commercial work on a wide-body jet.
What got me the job......quite simply my experience.
You have that same experience so my advise would be to go for it. Its great out here!
Good luck
An ex-Air Eng, I left 4 years ago aged 40 and with only 250hrs got my first commercial work on a wide-body jet.
What got me the job......quite simply my experience.
You have that same experience so my advise would be to go for it. Its great out here!
Good luck
Pitotheat gave an excellent reply.
Having done my time as fj pilot and now having seen a fair chunk of long haul widebody I can see absolutely no reason why a nav could not make it. It's a job that requires good levels of SA, systems management, crew co-operation. All of which most navs should have by the time they leave. Pure handling skills, while still important, are becoming less "core" for employers It really does come down to luck and timing. You may have to commit to several years paying off a largish (50-60K) debt with a much lower pay than you left on.
Look at the lifestyle choices, not just now but when you are 50-55, and decide
Having done my time as fj pilot and now having seen a fair chunk of long haul widebody I can see absolutely no reason why a nav could not make it. It's a job that requires good levels of SA, systems management, crew co-operation. All of which most navs should have by the time they leave. Pure handling skills, while still important, are becoming less "core" for employers It really does come down to luck and timing. You may have to commit to several years paying off a largish (50-60K) debt with a much lower pay than you left on.
Look at the lifestyle choices, not just now but when you are 50-55, and decide
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Agree with flaps that you need to be a good systems operator to be a good airline driver, but you have to ask why most Nav's became Nav's in the first place: medical, aptitude, chopped pilot?? who knows, when the **** hits the fan and a few of those core rudder and stick skills need to come to the fore, I know who I would rather have up front................
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Strato Q
The market is indeed improving in the coming years as well. I left in Dec 02 as I was going to start a cadetship with bmi despite having just been awarded a pilot crossover.
Even after the the events of 9/11 I still elected to gamble on completeing the training at my own expense after bmi dropped us all like hot potatoes.
I have got my first job, a mere 3 months after I had finished all my training, and it is not with a regional airline. It's not even with a low cost carrier. It's not even with bmi who were hoping to recruit us one we had got our licences. I have got a place with BA and there are plenty more spaces out there, not just with BA but with a whole host of airlines at the mo. Now is certainly the time to start making some of those decisions you have been mulling over in recent times.
The market is indeed improving in the coming years as well. I left in Dec 02 as I was going to start a cadetship with bmi despite having just been awarded a pilot crossover.
Even after the the events of 9/11 I still elected to gamble on completeing the training at my own expense after bmi dropped us all like hot potatoes.
I have got my first job, a mere 3 months after I had finished all my training, and it is not with a regional airline. It's not even with a low cost carrier. It's not even with bmi who were hoping to recruit us one we had got our licences. I have got a place with BA and there are plenty more spaces out there, not just with BA but with a whole host of airlines at the mo. Now is certainly the time to start making some of those decisions you have been mulling over in recent times.
