Nimrod R1 on a rescue
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Nah 5T blocks gone matey, RAF Locking closed as a result of the peace dividend, or was it front line first? No I remember now it was options for change yes that's it!!
Nicest of all the blocks was 5T and full of tottey too!! Happy Days!
And you are absoultely spot on althe.
Nicest of all the blocks was 5T and full of tottey too!! Happy Days!
And you are absoultely spot on althe.
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eh??? - The RAF's Premier comms training establishment has gone? 
That was a good six weeks, did the course then got back to faslavatory to find that said equipt had been replaced with the 'other stuff' Being a civvy on £50/night subby, Hobbits, Slack women, ah happy days
That was a good six weeks, did the course then got back to faslavatory to find that said equipt had been replaced with the 'other stuff' Being a civvy on £50/night subby, Hobbits, Slack women, ah happy days
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I remember serving on a ship which had been fitted with a piece of euipment so sensitive that even its name was classified. At the end of the trial process, the manufacturer presented us with a set of table mats which had photographs on them and the name of the eqiupment.....yep, youve guessed it. The tablemats became classifed and had to be locked into the safe and mustered daily....!!!!!!!!!!!!
Incubus,
"A disclosure of information already legally in the public domain would not be damaging and therefore would not be an offence under section 2."
Generally, I'd agree, and I'd want someone to show how discussing something already in the public domain was damaging before I suppressed it. But I wouldn't say that "if it's been published before, then it's entirely legit," even if it's been cleared for publication through proper channels.
With my Devil's Advocate hat on, I'd say that:
The repetition of damaging information CAN produce further damage. Something can be published in a limited circulation, defence-friendly magazine without harm, but the same information splashed across the front of the Mirror might be damaging.
The publication of several pieces of information together - all previously in the public domain separately could be considered to 'do the enemy's work for him'.
But I would ask what a 'damaging disclosure' is. Damaging what? If all that's being damaged is a Minister's reputation, or the Department's reputation, or public confidence, I don't think that the OSA should be used. But if the security of the country, or the Forces' ability to carry out their work is being damaged, that's an entirely different matter.
That's why common sense is relevant.
"A disclosure of information already legally in the public domain would not be damaging and therefore would not be an offence under section 2."
Generally, I'd agree, and I'd want someone to show how discussing something already in the public domain was damaging before I suppressed it. But I wouldn't say that "if it's been published before, then it's entirely legit," even if it's been cleared for publication through proper channels.
With my Devil's Advocate hat on, I'd say that:
The repetition of damaging information CAN produce further damage. Something can be published in a limited circulation, defence-friendly magazine without harm, but the same information splashed across the front of the Mirror might be damaging.
The publication of several pieces of information together - all previously in the public domain separately could be considered to 'do the enemy's work for him'.
But I would ask what a 'damaging disclosure' is. Damaging what? If all that's being damaged is a Minister's reputation, or the Department's reputation, or public confidence, I don't think that the OSA should be used. But if the security of the country, or the Forces' ability to carry out their work is being damaged, that's an entirely different matter.
That's why common sense is relevant.
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Points all taken gents. I wasn't particularly concerned about what had been written before my post, more that as the thread developed other things might have been discussed - it's happened before, and as quickly as the Mods might shut the thread the damage is done (Google cache anyone?) Best to draw the line I thought, or at least highlight the potential for inadvertant disclosure, since it doesn't necessarily take a disclosure of PM material to be a problem. In forums (fora?) like this the way open source intelligence works is for people to string lots of little bits together, make a couple of assumptions and then get pretty close to the more closely held information.
Whatever.
Whatever.
Spots,
You said: "Don't think we should be discussing what an R1 can or can't do on here, or its crew composition. Do you?"
Which inferred that you did have a problem with all and any discussion about 51. It's nice to know that we're basically in agreement.
Now can we go back to silly remarks about lack of windows and large numbers of crew?
You said: "Don't think we should be discussing what an R1 can or can't do on here, or its crew composition. Do you?"
Which inferred that you did have a problem with all and any discussion about 51. It's nice to know that we're basically in agreement.
Now can we go back to silly remarks about lack of windows and large numbers of crew?
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Crew of Spanish trawler rescued
14 January, 2005
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The 19-strong crew of a Spanish trawler are now recovering after being successfully rescued from it on Wednesday.
The fishermen were on the Cibeles, which got into difficulties in severe storms 180 miles west of Stornoway.
imagegear
14 January, 2005
-
The 19-strong crew of a Spanish trawler are now recovering after being successfully rescued from it on Wednesday.
The fishermen were on the Cibeles, which got into difficulties in severe storms 180 miles west of Stornoway.
imagegear
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Gentlemen
To fly for the best part of 6 hours on task, manually, on a dark and ****ty night at 300 feet in 70mph winds, with a sea state of 6+ and wave heights touching 90 feet requires a special ability which is not easily learned flying at 29,000ft in 3 degree banked turns.
Of course the SAR was diverted when the weather deteriorated. That's why we employ the Met Office, Ops staff and all other agencies to ensure 365 day cover.
We don't guess at this - We are always ahead of the game: it's planned in a safe and timely fashion ensuring the ready crew are well placed and rested prior to any call-out.
Suggesting a MR1 is launched on SAR (if available) is akin to asking a police underwater diving team to carry out a mountain recue search for lost climbers.
Might be difficult and take time, so always use your specialists.
I was involved with the rescue of "La Parraine" last year which resulted in the spectacular lift, at extreme range - 220 miles - (18 crew in 22 mins) by that magnificent Lossie Sea King crew in similar (frightning) conditions.
To fly for the best part of 6 hours on task, manually, on a dark and ****ty night at 300 feet in 70mph winds, with a sea state of 6+ and wave heights touching 90 feet requires a special ability which is not easily learned flying at 29,000ft in 3 degree banked turns.
Of course the SAR was diverted when the weather deteriorated. That's why we employ the Met Office, Ops staff and all other agencies to ensure 365 day cover.
We don't guess at this - We are always ahead of the game: it's planned in a safe and timely fashion ensuring the ready crew are well placed and rested prior to any call-out.
Suggesting a MR1 is launched on SAR (if available) is akin to asking a police underwater diving team to carry out a mountain recue search for lost climbers.
Might be difficult and take time, so always use your specialists.
I was involved with the rescue of "La Parraine" last year which resulted in the spectacular lift, at extreme range - 220 miles - (18 crew in 22 mins) by that magnificent Lossie Sea King crew in similar (frightning) conditions.
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We don't guess at this - We are always ahead of the game: it's planned in a safe and timely fashion ensuring the ready crew are well placed and rested prior to any call-out.
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Bouy 15 - if you re-read the posts from the start, I think you will find that the notion of using an R1 for SAR was, within the first few posts, pretty well discounted for just those reasons...
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All for security but it can be funny sometimes.
Did a trip down to the Malvinas after the war on a MOD Charter.
On departure from the secret shared USAF base in mid Atlantic had to sign for the secret comms folder. On arrival in the Malvinas first bod on board was a RAF plod who took said file back and signed for it.
All good stuff except all the frequencies in the "secret" folder were in the Aerad supplement which was a standard part of the a/c library.
Did a trip down to the Malvinas after the war on a MOD Charter.
On departure from the secret shared USAF base in mid Atlantic had to sign for the secret comms folder. On arrival in the Malvinas first bod on board was a RAF plod who took said file back and signed for it.
All good stuff except all the frequencies in the "secret" folder were in the Aerad supplement which was a standard part of the a/c library.
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Incubus - While I agree generally with your point the problem is that there is a lot of conflicting and unverified material around claiming to be valid and correct.
Discussion of this material gives credence to certain facts/figures/whatever and whilst maybe not technically a breach of the OSA certainly contradicts the intent.
cheers
Discussion of this material gives credence to certain facts/figures/whatever and whilst maybe not technically a breach of the OSA certainly contradicts the intent.
cheers
I think there is a lot more to this than the difference twixt R and MR versions of the Mighty Hunter.
It 's been explained that the MR was positioned at Waddo to avoid the expected weather. Why Waddo?, could it be that the powers are carrying out a proving trial? If a SAR sortie west of the Hebrides can be carried out successfully from a centrally located airfield then what is the point in maintaining a fleet of similar aircraft at the end of a very long logistics supply chain that is quite often affected by adverse weather?
What's that noise? could it be the death knell sounding for Ice Station Kilo?
It 's been explained that the MR was positioned at Waddo to avoid the expected weather. Why Waddo?, could it be that the powers are carrying out a proving trial? If a SAR sortie west of the Hebrides can be carried out successfully from a centrally located airfield then what is the point in maintaining a fleet of similar aircraft at the end of a very long logistics supply chain that is quite often affected by adverse weather?
What's that noise? could it be the death knell sounding for Ice Station Kilo?
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Top point there fella...but sadly i think that decision has already been made. Anyhow since when did MOD plan and evaluate anything...plans require good reason and effective leadership...and to evaluate you need to learn from past mistakes...nuff said
Vote with your feet....
Vote with your feet....
MR2's have been pre-positioned at the Secret Wilts airbase in the past, does that mean that there is a rescue plan at hand, of course not. When it comes to saving lives, who cares what joe public reads into things.