Raf"s Jolly To Alps Is Snow Joke
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Raf"s Jolly To Alps Is Snow Joke
This is a disgrace. You would have thought in this day and age you could waste more than £250k on a trip 
News
RAF"S JOLLY TO ALPS IS SNOW JOKE
EXCLUSIVE by GARY JONES
228 words
11 January 2005
Mirror
11
English
(c) 2005 Mirror Group Ltd
THE RAF spent £250,000 of taxpayers" money on a 23-day training exercise in Switzerland so pilots could fly in the right type of snow.
But the pre-Christmas trip caused a storm at the Ministry of Defence when aircrews described it as the trip of a lifetime. It emerged the 40- strong group of men and women would finish flying early so they could go skiing, sightseeing and to nightclubs.
No33 squadron, based at RAF Benson, Oxon, also enjoyed five-star hospitality at the Swiss air base at Sion near the holiday resort of Montreux and were paid more for being overseas.
A senior Ministry of Defence source said: "Diversions were found. The Swiss were great hosts."
RAF chief Sir Jock Stirrup learned of the "jolly" when the Puma helicopter squads boasted about it to colleagues and pictures of the trip appeared in the service"s paper the RAF News.
The source added: "Sir Jock is furious. The excuse about the type of snow didn"t go down well.
"The RAF has been hit with nearly 10,000 job cuts so hearing about an expensive fun break in Switzerland didn"t help at all."
A RAF spokesman said: "This training needs altitudes above 5,000ft and can"t be done in the UK."
Document DMIRR00020050111e11b0002v
[IMG]Daily Mirror[/IMG]
News
RAF"S JOLLY TO ALPS IS SNOW JOKE
EXCLUSIVE by GARY JONES
228 words
11 January 2005
Mirror
11
English
(c) 2005 Mirror Group Ltd
THE RAF spent £250,000 of taxpayers" money on a 23-day training exercise in Switzerland so pilots could fly in the right type of snow.
But the pre-Christmas trip caused a storm at the Ministry of Defence when aircrews described it as the trip of a lifetime. It emerged the 40- strong group of men and women would finish flying early so they could go skiing, sightseeing and to nightclubs.
No33 squadron, based at RAF Benson, Oxon, also enjoyed five-star hospitality at the Swiss air base at Sion near the holiday resort of Montreux and were paid more for being overseas.
A senior Ministry of Defence source said: "Diversions were found. The Swiss were great hosts."
RAF chief Sir Jock Stirrup learned of the "jolly" when the Puma helicopter squads boasted about it to colleagues and pictures of the trip appeared in the service"s paper the RAF News.
The source added: "Sir Jock is furious. The excuse about the type of snow didn"t go down well.
"The RAF has been hit with nearly 10,000 job cuts so hearing about an expensive fun break in Switzerland didn"t help at all."
A RAF spokesman said: "This training needs altitudes above 5,000ft and can"t be done in the UK."
Document DMIRR00020050111e11b0002v
[IMG]Daily Mirror[/IMG]
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I hated every minute of a two week trip to Florida in the summer of 19XX - the worst bits were the evenings, being surrounded by fit girls queuing up to meet these even fitter Brit guys with their nice accents ....
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This is getting a little hysterical.....so let's dispel a few myths. Have you ever stayed on an air base where you were given "5-star hospitality"? Well looked after - as befits an exchange of this sort - but "5-star?" Not many have, I would suggest
Yes, they were paid more for being overseas - it's called LSSA, and most of the boys and girls on the Sqn will have spent a large porportion of recent yeras overseas on one cr@ppy det or another. If they were acommodated in hotels, yes, there is subsistence allowance etc, but you can bet that this would be one of the few dets of this year where this would apply.
And do you really think that OC 33 can merrily take his Sqn on an exercise in another nation without permission from the highly-paid help?
The FJ boys get (increasingly rarely, I know) Red Flag, Maple Flag and so on to train in appropriate conditions against a simlulated threat - why the hysteria because 33 Sqn got to Switzerland to train at high altitude? (probably as part of a multi-national effort?)
I'm rather disgusted at you, Mike, for replying in such a fashion to such an obviously sensationalist report without apparent regard to the background or circumstances.
SBG
Yes, they were paid more for being overseas - it's called LSSA, and most of the boys and girls on the Sqn will have spent a large porportion of recent yeras overseas on one cr@ppy det or another. If they were acommodated in hotels, yes, there is subsistence allowance etc, but you can bet that this would be one of the few dets of this year where this would apply.
And do you really think that OC 33 can merrily take his Sqn on an exercise in another nation without permission from the highly-paid help?
The FJ boys get (increasingly rarely, I know) Red Flag, Maple Flag and so on to train in appropriate conditions against a simlulated threat - why the hysteria because 33 Sqn got to Switzerland to train at high altitude? (probably as part of a multi-national effort?)
I'm rather disgusted at you, Mike, for replying in such a fashion to such an obviously sensationalist report without apparent regard to the background or circumstances.
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Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
It emerged the 40- strong group of men and women would finish flying early so they could go skiing, sightseeing and to nightclubs.
Ski-ing = Adventurous training and physical fitness.
Sightseeing = Personal development.
Nightclubbing = that or sit in a barrack block on a Swiss base and read the Aircrew / Technical manual.
I would hazard a guess that their swiss hosts organised most events, and lets face it, the whole det would have to be authorised and funded by Group, not the Sqn itself. At best the boys and girls would have had their ski passes subsidised (as is only right and fair as it is recognised in the Services that physical fitness is part of the basic military skill-set). The "tax-payer" would certainly not have funded the visits to any nightclubs.
Hang our heads in shame? Not a chance, hold our heads up high for using yet another detachment to actually introduce some element of fun back into service life. Well done 33 Sqn, bet you it was a lot nicer than Bosnia / Iraq / Afghanistan / insert country of your choice here!
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£250,000 for 40 people for 23 days........ Absolutely outrageous. What on earth were you doing? It appears that you were staying in the 5 star barracks reading the ACM when you should have been nightclubbing.
Seriously though, surely the cost of the detacjhment would be more than that.... they must have the figures wrong. If not then it was cheap as chips.
Sir Jock is furious he didn't get an invite.
Try harder chaps.
as for 5-star barracks. Try the Noggy Naval barracks at Bergen - First class.
Seriously though, surely the cost of the detacjhment would be more than that.... they must have the figures wrong. If not then it was cheap as chips.
Sir Jock is furious he didn't get an invite.
Try harder chaps.
as for 5-star barracks. Try the Noggy Naval barracks at Bergen - First class.
Last edited by Mikehegland; 11th Jan 2005 at 15:05.
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Hurrumph!
Bounders one and all -
God forbid any one combining a detachment and a bit of fun in this day and age!. If the flying is to be meaningful training one should be living in overcrowded tents on a noisy airfield in appauling conditions with the prospect of a decent bit of "incoming". The very thought of being resonably comfortable, well fed, rested and therefore receptive to learning a bit / improving ones skills is discraceful.
Don't even get me going on them being allowed out of the tent in the afternoons to actually enjoy life once in a while. They'll be allowing marriage before the second tour and "singlies" to live outide the Mess next
Bounders one and all -
God forbid any one combining a detachment and a bit of fun in this day and age!. If the flying is to be meaningful training one should be living in overcrowded tents on a noisy airfield in appauling conditions with the prospect of a decent bit of "incoming". The very thought of being resonably comfortable, well fed, rested and therefore receptive to learning a bit / improving ones skills is discraceful.
Don't even get me going on them being allowed out of the tent in the afternoons to actually enjoy life once in a while. They'll be allowing marriage before the second tour and "singlies" to live outide the Mess next
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As a former scribbly I share Mike's outrage and disgust at this profligacy with the taxpayer's money.
For £250K one could have funded Investors in Paperwork for maybe even 2 weeks, or, or paid the MOD's 'Consultants' bill for 1/2 a day, or, or paid the compensation & legal bill for a whole day!
I dare say one could even have funded one day's worth of the BWoS "Fleece-Factor". Jeez! one could even have bought 250 super-duper swivel chairs!
For £250K one could have funded Investors in Paperwork for maybe even 2 weeks, or, or paid the MOD's 'Consultants' bill for 1/2 a day, or, or paid the compensation & legal bill for a whole day!
I dare say one could even have funded one day's worth of the BWoS "Fleece-Factor". Jeez! one could even have bought 250 super-duper swivel chairs!
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One could ask why they don't come here (BDF) and freze their @rse off with their collauges, after all Navy, RAF and I belive AAC have/ is going to have quite a few crews up here this winter. You know, like clockwork.....
Ahhh........but it's in the middle of nowhere! That's why!!!!!
(To be serious, not high enough mountains perhaps? )
Ahhh........but it's in the middle of nowhere! That's why!!!!!
(To be serious, not high enough mountains perhaps? )
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Legitimate flying training for a Sqn capable of short notice operational deployments worldwide, combined with personal development and not to mention benefits of working with the Swiss forces.
If you want to save wasted money from which this country gets nothing in return, withdraw from Brussels and sack European Commissioners!
If you want to save wasted money from which this country gets nothing in return, withdraw from Brussels and sack European Commissioners!
Hear Hear Slider!!
If you want to save the wasted millions DO NOT vote them stupid Labour to$$ers back in. Vote Blue and give Howard a chance and Letwin with his promises of tax cuts!!
If you want to save the wasted millions DO NOT vote them stupid Labour to$$ers back in. Vote Blue and give Howard a chance and Letwin with his promises of tax cuts!!
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I would love to have a face to face chat with this £%$£^* of a journalist. Its typical of irresponsible journalism that seems to be the norm these days. He obviously does not realise that 250k is NOTHING for a 23 day exercise. The skills learned on this det would be useful in the UK (snow, mountains, emergencies) Iraq (high density altitudes, emergencies) Afghanistan (High density altitude, mountains and kin big ones at that, emergencies) Kosovo/Bosnia ( snow, mountains, emergencies, high DA in summer) insert any country you like here. I would love to get these journalists up at night in the mountains and doing some snow landings then laugh when they find out adrenaline is brown. If any are reading this WE ARE NOT SUPERMEN JUST TRAIN HARD. The phrase train hard fight easy comes to mind.
Just out of curiosity i wonder where matey boy who works for the mirror stays when he is out and about round the country. Youth hostels with no food all night or 5 star hotel with more than the usual small amount we get to feed us for a day. Maybe we could put him up in the 5 star accomodation we stay in
Just an aside i know a lot of the guys who were on this det and they did get a LOT of benefit from it. A big proportion of the guys had not done any real mountain flying for years, if at all.
Just out of curiosity i wonder where matey boy who works for the mirror stays when he is out and about round the country. Youth hostels with no food all night or 5 star hotel with more than the usual small amount we get to feed us for a day. Maybe we could put him up in the 5 star accomodation we stay in
Just an aside i know a lot of the guys who were on this det and they did get a LOT of benefit from it. A big proportion of the guys had not done any real mountain flying for years, if at all.
Last edited by heights good; 11th Jan 2005 at 18:51.
On a serious note...
...the damage is now done in terms of the adverse publicity generated by that low-life rag and its 'reporters'. This cr@p will have been read and believed by a huge number of people. What can be done by way of repair?
Make a start - don't buy the trash. Good grief....
...the damage is now done in terms of the adverse publicity generated by that low-life rag and its 'reporters'. This cr@p will have been read and believed by a huge number of people. What can be done by way of repair?
Make a start - don't buy the trash. Good grief....
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Why is it irresponsible journalism? If I paid UK taxes I'd want to know that my money was being well spent and correctly administered and not wasted on a made up jolly like this was. I really cannot believe that the Sqdn Boss thought he could get away with this. 20 Years ago maybe they could have but in today's finacial climate it is totally and utterly stupid to think you can get away with this.
If you want to send the Squadron skiing then do it legally and properly and not through some back door exercise established to squander the public purse. Please don't try and justify it by saying it was good for exercise or to increase levels of fitness...you can do that by going for a run around the block. Don't make excuses for them by saying it was team building....again, easy to organise in the UK for less than £250,000. Do they need to go to Switzerland to practice mountain flying...How many other squadrons / Units go to Switzerland to practice Mountain flying ?
They should be made to pay the money back. Shame on them.
Its no wonder the rest of the Armed Forces are short of Kit and equipment when this is going on.
If you want to send the Squadron skiing then do it legally and properly and not through some back door exercise established to squander the public purse. Please don't try and justify it by saying it was good for exercise or to increase levels of fitness...you can do that by going for a run around the block. Don't make excuses for them by saying it was team building....again, easy to organise in the UK for less than £250,000. Do they need to go to Switzerland to practice mountain flying...How many other squadrons / Units go to Switzerland to practice Mountain flying ?
They should be made to pay the money back. Shame on them.
Its no wonder the rest of the Armed Forces are short of Kit and equipment when this is going on.
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Why weren't the shortly to be saying, 'Do you want fries with that?' Squadron not using the JHC EETU, established in Northern Norway specifically for this purpose?
To claim this was anything but a jolly will only rile the press and public more.
But so what, look at the junkets our lords and masters go on and MOD duty travel rate is 25 p per mile. If you are an MP you get 65p per mile, a positive incentive to drive as much as possible.
Do the kipper fleet still do a round the world on the OCU? Is this still deemed necessary?
To claim this was anything but a jolly will only rile the press and public more.
But so what, look at the junkets our lords and masters go on and MOD duty travel rate is 25 p per mile. If you are an MP you get 65p per mile, a positive incentive to drive as much as possible.
Do the kipper fleet still do a round the world on the OCU? Is this still deemed necessary?
Read where it originated......MIRROR GROUP!!!
If it's in the paper, then it must all be true!!........NOT
Lighten up guys and gals. As a British taxpayer I dont resent these type of excercises. There should be more of them!!
As a British Taxpayer who paid for all my jollies in MOD aircraft overthe years...I did. And I bloody well enjoyed it...
If it's in the paper, then it must all be true!!........NOT
Lighten up guys and gals. As a British taxpayer I dont resent these type of excercises. There should be more of them!!
As a British Taxpayer who paid for all my jollies in MOD aircraft overthe years...I did. And I bloody well enjoyed it...
The kipper fleet OCU take an aircraft and its crew to places that they will be expected to operate from once there course is complete, and no its not "round the world"
Sure they have a good time when there off, what do you want them to do? Sit in and read an aircrew manual?
But they work darn hard in the air... period.
Sure they have a good time when there off, what do you want them to do? Sit in and read an aircrew manual?
But they work darn hard in the air... period.