Virgin Atlantic are currently recruiting pilots
Thread Starter
Virgin Atlantic are currently recruiting pilots
From the http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...ment/index.jsp website:
Virgin Atlantic are currently recruiting pilots.
We are interested in a wide variety of applicants and consider each application on its individual merits although prospective candidates should meet the following criteria:
* At least 2500 - 3000 hours total time
* Commercial candidates should have a minimum of 1500 hours commercial jet time (BAe 146 or above)
* UK issue JAA ATPL
* MCC qualified
* Right of abode in the EU
Note that the 1500 commercial jet time does not apply to ex-military pilots.
Here is a link to the Virgin Atlantic on-line application:
https://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/g...ent/pilot1.jsp
Later edited to correct the links! Sorry!!
Virgin Atlantic are currently recruiting pilots.
We are interested in a wide variety of applicants and consider each application on its individual merits although prospective candidates should meet the following criteria:
* At least 2500 - 3000 hours total time
* Commercial candidates should have a minimum of 1500 hours commercial jet time (BAe 146 or above)
* UK issue JAA ATPL
* MCC qualified
* Right of abode in the EU
Note that the 1500 commercial jet time does not apply to ex-military pilots.
Here is a link to the Virgin Atlantic on-line application:
https://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/g...ent/pilot1.jsp
Later edited to correct the links! Sorry!!
Last edited by BEagle; 17th Dec 2004 at 23:06.
I understand that Virgin have 28 pilots in their hold pool so they will obviously use those before employing new hires.
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Virgin's current recruiting situation is comprehensively covered in a number of threads on Terms and Endearments. To summarise: the airline is expecting delivery of around 25 to 30 additional aircraft between now and 2010 - the fleet is currently about 33 aircraft. Longhaul crewing requires about 8 crews (3 FOs to every 2 captains) per aircraft, suggesting a recruiting requirement of approximately 600 pilots between now and 2010.
We have taken on about 70 new guys in 2004, mostly from other airlines. There have been a few from the services in that number, and the airline is quite pro ex-service pilots. However, it is keen to see a range of ages joining the airline - it would be a bit of a shot in the foot to employ only those around 38-40 years old. The 'retirement bulge' would be fairly spectacular!
Try a search on Virgin in T&E for more info.
Scroggs
We have taken on about 70 new guys in 2004, mostly from other airlines. There have been a few from the services in that number, and the airline is quite pro ex-service pilots. However, it is keen to see a range of ages joining the airline - it would be a bit of a shot in the foot to employ only those around 38-40 years old. The 'retirement bulge' would be fairly spectacular!
Try a search on Virgin in T&E for more info.
Scroggs
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And where else are you going to get 2500 - 3000 hrs from people in the services ?
Around the 38 point I would wager.
If the requirements were around the 1500 hrs you`d get some guys at the 28-32 yr age.
Like me . . . . . . .
Around the 38 point I would wager.
If the requirements were around the 1500 hrs you`d get some guys at the 28-32 yr age.
Like me . . . . . . .
Thread Starter
Given that the full ME accreditation for an ATPL requires not less than 2000 hrs TT (of which 1000 must have been as P1C on approved ME types plus 500 as P1U/S on the same type), it would seem that the Virgin requirement for 2500-3000 hrs TT is slightly excessive.
Scroggs, if it would help I would be happy, as a disinterested party (but as the person who sparked off the military accreditation rights) to explain further by PM.
But I'm glad to note that the National Flag Carrier (VS) does hold ex-Mil pilots in reasonable esteem!
Scroggs, if it would help I would be happy, as a disinterested party (but as the person who sparked off the military accreditation rights) to explain further by PM.
But I'm glad to note that the National Flag Carrier (VS) does hold ex-Mil pilots in reasonable esteem!
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I think you might be surprised with how many 30 yr old ME captains have 3000 TT & 1000 PIC. The high workload over the last few years mean these totals can be achieved on some fleets well within a capt tour.
This is one of the reasons I started the other thread on "surplus ME pilots", which I would link to if I had the PPRUNE skill.
Also, Virgin state that these totals do not apply to mil pilots.
This is one of the reasons I started the other thread on "surplus ME pilots", which I would link to if I had the PPRUNE skill.
Also, Virgin state that these totals do not apply to mil pilots.
Thread Starter
The link is http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=155837
Good luck to those hard-working RAF ME mates who make it to Sir RB's fine airline!
Good luck to those hard-working RAF ME mates who make it to Sir RB's fine airline!
hi all
sounds like someone sculpted this "entry requirement" very carefully.....BAe-146 or above.Hmmm,so if someone has decent time put up on a business jet or a light regional like an EMB-145, they still don't qualify.Not even if they have lots of small turboprop time? or is there an exception for C-130 drivers?......UK-issue JAA ATPL? What's wrong with those issued in the great land-mass known as Europe? Perhaps this is discrimination by another name.It reads more like the rules being written to be exclusive/old pals' act rather than inclusive.
In cynical regard
TDD
sounds like someone sculpted this "entry requirement" very carefully.....BAe-146 or above.Hmmm,so if someone has decent time put up on a business jet or a light regional like an EMB-145, they still don't qualify.Not even if they have lots of small turboprop time? or is there an exception for C-130 drivers?......UK-issue JAA ATPL? What's wrong with those issued in the great land-mass known as Europe? Perhaps this is discrimination by another name.It reads more like the rules being written to be exclusive/old pals' act rather than inclusive.
In cynical regard
TDD
Thread Starter
'should' is merely a recommendation in JAR-speak, not a mandatory requirement.
So Virgin Atlantic recommends that their applicants have CAA-issued licences. Good for them - they're not obliged to give anyone a job!
So Virgin Atlantic recommends that their applicants have CAA-issued licences. Good for them - they're not obliged to give anyone a job!
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The requirement for at least 2500-3000 flying hours is predicated on the fact that we do not need people who are still developing their handling skills. The longhaul business does not provide opportunities to improve your flying; it is normal to expect only one landing a month - two is a good month!
Neither are the hours or other requirements based on any circumstances that may affect miltary applicants specifically. Virgin is not particularly interested in what 2500-3000 hours represents age-wise in a military context, only in the fact that we want that level of experince as a minimum - whatever an applicant's background. Bear in mind that an ex-MYT or EZ pilot will have gained that experience in less than 5 years of line flying and may only be 25-26 years of age. He or she is prime material for us.
It's a fact that the vast majority of ex-mil applicants are around 38-40 for (what are for you...) obvious reasons. As it happens, many of the applicants from other airlines are also around that age just now - but they tend to have considerably more than 3000 hours, on aircraft directly relevant to our business. That does put you FJ guys at a disadvantage! But, as I say, Virgin does like ex-military people and has employed many in the past. The proportion is smaller now, as the services themselves are a much smaller part of the aviation scene in UK, but we still are employing from your gene pool!
As for the UK-sourced JAA licence bit, I don't know exactly where that comes from (though I am aware of stories of forgeries of other nations' licences being presented!) . We employ many nationalities; the only criteria other than the professional ones are the right to live and work in the UK and a fluent command of the English language - oh, and we prefer people who are fairly chilled and don't live life woriying whether it's all a conspiracy against Irish TP pilots!
Neither are the hours or other requirements based on any circumstances that may affect miltary applicants specifically. Virgin is not particularly interested in what 2500-3000 hours represents age-wise in a military context, only in the fact that we want that level of experince as a minimum - whatever an applicant's background. Bear in mind that an ex-MYT or EZ pilot will have gained that experience in less than 5 years of line flying and may only be 25-26 years of age. He or she is prime material for us.
It's a fact that the vast majority of ex-mil applicants are around 38-40 for (what are for you...) obvious reasons. As it happens, many of the applicants from other airlines are also around that age just now - but they tend to have considerably more than 3000 hours, on aircraft directly relevant to our business. That does put you FJ guys at a disadvantage! But, as I say, Virgin does like ex-military people and has employed many in the past. The proportion is smaller now, as the services themselves are a much smaller part of the aviation scene in UK, but we still are employing from your gene pool!
As for the UK-sourced JAA licence bit, I don't know exactly where that comes from (though I am aware of stories of forgeries of other nations' licences being presented!) . We employ many nationalities; the only criteria other than the professional ones are the right to live and work in the UK and a fluent command of the English language - oh, and we prefer people who are fairly chilled and don't live life woriying whether it's all a conspiracy against Irish TP pilots!
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Scroggs - if Virgin are so pro-military why are they telling military pilots that their CVs won't be looked at. Several mates of mine have had their CVs 'in' for nearly a year and haven't got an interview date. Surely the mil/civ mix can only be maintained if they actually recruit pilots from backgrounds other than MYT and EZY?
Mind you, like the sound of a conspiracy theory against Irish TP pilots!
Mind you, like the sound of a conspiracy theory against Irish TP pilots!
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There is no bias, for or against, ex-mil pilots within Virgin. If you fit in and meet the minimum requirements, then you will be offered employment.
Time to command currently is around seven years. You will be contracted to fly aprox 750 hours per year, which will give 5000 hours on top of your minimum 2500 hours on joining, i.e. 7500 hours. Minimum hours for wide body command are 6000, including credits.
The military streaming system is very good and accurate. Ex FJ guys are relatively easy to train and have no pre-conceived ideas on handling large jets.
On leaving the services you will be a civi, not ex anything. Work hard, wind your neck in, and have a ball.
Good Luck.
Time to command currently is around seven years. You will be contracted to fly aprox 750 hours per year, which will give 5000 hours on top of your minimum 2500 hours on joining, i.e. 7500 hours. Minimum hours for wide body command are 6000, including credits.
The military streaming system is very good and accurate. Ex FJ guys are relatively easy to train and have no pre-conceived ideas on handling large jets.
On leaving the services you will be a civi, not ex anything. Work hard, wind your neck in, and have a ball.
Good Luck.
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Apparently, some FJ guys have been turned away as they have not been able to get a full JAA ATPL (A), just a CPL/IR based on the difficulty/confusion of turning a QSP-based CAA frozen ATPL into a JAA equivalent - I think the sticking point is 500 hrs in Multi-crew 'heavy' ME ac.
However, I suspect this reqt of VA could be an oversight, as by all accounts, ex FJ guys are just fine in the cockpit of airliners as proven by the many that fly for VA already!!!!!
I would recommend that an ex-FJ chap desparately wanting VA (or any other company), delicately points out that after about 6 months on line, they can get a JAA ATPL anyway.
One's CV handed in by a mate who already works for the company may also help!
Interestingly, most other companies (Britannia, EZ, Monarch and, I think, BA) do not have such reqts so VA may be missing out on some good guys - their loss.
Beagle may have a more apposite input?
However, I suspect this reqt of VA could be an oversight, as by all accounts, ex FJ guys are just fine in the cockpit of airliners as proven by the many that fly for VA already!!!!!
I would recommend that an ex-FJ chap desparately wanting VA (or any other company), delicately points out that after about 6 months on line, they can get a JAA ATPL anyway.
One's CV handed in by a mate who already works for the company may also help!
Interestingly, most other companies (Britannia, EZ, Monarch and, I think, BA) do not have such reqts so VA may be missing out on some good guys - their loss.
Beagle may have a more apposite input?
Thread Starter
It depends upon how strict Virgin Atlantic are concerning the 'ATPL' requirement rather than 'frozen' ATPL...
Yes, you cannot 'unfreeze' a 'frozen' ATPL until you have not less than 500 hours multi-pilot time on transport-type aircraft; the multi-pilot IR would be conducted as part of the Type Rating.
But if you're an ex-military FJ pilot with zero experience of air transport operations, why would you expect Virgin Atlantic to take you over a chap/chapess/chapthing 10 years younger with 3000 hours of air transport time on another airline - or an ex-RAF ME pilot with at least 1000 hours of PIC time on ac such as TriStar/VC10/C130 etc? Even if a 'mate' in the airline were to state that you were the world's best bona mate, that's not a particularly marketable attribute when there are others with more relevant experience and backgrounds to choose from....
Still - good luck to all who apply to the national flag carrier!
Yes, you cannot 'unfreeze' a 'frozen' ATPL until you have not less than 500 hours multi-pilot time on transport-type aircraft; the multi-pilot IR would be conducted as part of the Type Rating.
But if you're an ex-military FJ pilot with zero experience of air transport operations, why would you expect Virgin Atlantic to take you over a chap/chapess/chapthing 10 years younger with 3000 hours of air transport time on another airline - or an ex-RAF ME pilot with at least 1000 hours of PIC time on ac such as TriStar/VC10/C130 etc? Even if a 'mate' in the airline were to state that you were the world's best bona mate, that's not a particularly marketable attribute when there are others with more relevant experience and backgrounds to choose from....
Still - good luck to all who apply to the national flag carrier!
I suspect it's all down to market forces. I suspect the A340 recruitment requirement is being filled by people with a current A320/330 rating which enables them to be trained on a CCQ. This represents large savings. Similarly, the few required for the 744 will probably all have 500 hrs on heavy jets as Virgin tends to recruit those who are eligable for ZFT for that fleet.