Flying Pay!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Just down the road from ISK
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Brit Bus Driver
Top point!!
OC accounts - no formal accounts qualification - ie Chartered Accountant/CEMA etc. Expect to earn around 15-20K with a free calculator thrown in - not 30K Flt Lt brass.
OC Supply, no formal qualificationin the industry - whatever that might be!! - Warehouse Manager, about 20K and a free abacus.
OC Catering, sandwhich van at the side of the A4 - about £150K a year!!!!!
VC10 Captian, no civil licence, not a current civil type, about 35K with Easyjet as First Officer
Bu99er, I just Diss'd your argument!
The one trade that should have got it's muck in a sock is the engineers - incredibly employable outside, RAF is short of them and they stay in, earning a pitance (sp?)
As I said before, one gets paid whatever a company thinks they can get away with. Not what one is worth.
Top point!!
OC accounts - no formal accounts qualification - ie Chartered Accountant/CEMA etc. Expect to earn around 15-20K with a free calculator thrown in - not 30K Flt Lt brass.
OC Supply, no formal qualificationin the industry - whatever that might be!! - Warehouse Manager, about 20K and a free abacus.
OC Catering, sandwhich van at the side of the A4 - about £150K a year!!!!!
VC10 Captian, no civil licence, not a current civil type, about 35K with Easyjet as First Officer
Bu99er, I just Diss'd your argument!
The one trade that should have got it's muck in a sock is the engineers - incredibly employable outside, RAF is short of them and they stay in, earning a pitance (sp?)
As I said before, one gets paid whatever a company thinks they can get away with. Not what one is worth.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Where2next! Clearly a sore point for you but let us face it aircrew need to fly desks if we are to have anyone with any credibility making operational and policy decisions. There must be incentives to go the career route. Taking away flying pay doesn't seem the best of incentives to me. Why not double flying pay whilst on ground appointments. There's a thought. I
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I asked a question of AMP a couple of years ago, why is it that officers have 4 years of initial flying pay before going to the middle rate and then a further 4 years to go to the top rate, whereas the Non commisioned (the only proffesional aircrew, albeit an arguable point) has 12 years ( or 9 depending on previous service) on initial rate and 22 years service to get to top rate. I can maybe understand that the rates may be different, however I believe the basic rule of when it is applied shold be the same. With discrimination being a major factor in service life these days, this is surely one case of discrimination. Oh and by the way although I was promised an answer by AMP nothing was forthcoming. I also found it interesting that some senior officers didn't know this was the case.
As ex groundcrew who changed over to the other side, getting back to the origional discussion, if people don't like seeing aircrew getting paid flying pay, they can always exercise their entitlement to apply for aircrew. If too old for this now then all that can be said is that you had your chance so accept it and get on with it.
As ex groundcrew who changed over to the other side, getting back to the origional discussion, if people don't like seeing aircrew getting paid flying pay, they can always exercise their entitlement to apply for aircrew. If too old for this now then all that can be said is that you had your chance so accept it and get on with it.
Join Date: May 2004
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Hoots, quite agree with your point about changing over. I did 10 years as admin type geezer before making the switch. Used to work with lots of people who bitched and moaned about aircrew but never got off their backsides to do anything about it. You cannot beat the system and the system gives us aircrew extra money so tough luck. The opportunity to switch is open to most people and as I proved, you do not have to be a brain surgeon to pass!! Pity my terms of service are worse now than if I had stayed as groundcrew but only got myself to blame for that 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Hoots old boy, are you serious or just been smoking something a little odd??
NCA (quote) the only "Proffesional" aircrew (unquote)
First of all, would you like too justify that rather sweeping statement? Secondly, check your spelling old bean, I think you will find the word "professional" is at the top of this page if in any doubt
DS
Ps "an arguable point"? you bet it is..................
NCA (quote) the only "Proffesional" aircrew (unquote)
First of all, would you like too justify that rather sweeping statement? Secondly, check your spelling old bean, I think you will find the word "professional" is at the top of this page if in any doubt
DS
Ps "an arguable point"? you bet it is..................
Presumably he means that NCA are employed only to be airborne equipment operators, load specialists or systems minders - whereas Pilots and Navigators are supposed to be officers first, aircrew second?
Would seem rather a silly point to make.
Would seem rather a silly point to make.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Looks like I got a reaction, I do believe that the officer types are GD(P) (N) etc, as in general duties. Of course many officers have to go and complete a ground tour, which I am sure many would prefer not to, but if they are career people ( and good luck to them ) then this has to be done. Many NCA can have first tours as long as 8 years, some more, then go to other flying tours which ends up as 20 years plus for some purely flying. I do have the greatest respect and admiration for the vast majority of officer types, but they do bite easily at times.
I would be interested to know why the disparity of when flying pay rates are applied.
As for the spelling errors its a bit of a finger / keyboard co-ordination problem, should have tried harder at school.
I would be interested to know why the disparity of when flying pay rates are applied.
As for the spelling errors its a bit of a finger / keyboard co-ordination problem, should have tried harder at school.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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You don't suppose that "Should have worked harder at school!" would be an appropriate response to those (clearly groundpounders) who are whining about aircrew getting their just rewards whether up in the sky or down on the ground! No, I thought not! Well it always works for me!
By the way, I thought 200ft was an appropriate happy average!
FJ 250' AGL or 200' ASL or 100' ULL or <50' over the oggin with noone watching!
Not that I'm in current flying practice these days - haven't been for a while, still - the money's good!
By the way, I thought 200ft was an appropriate happy average!
FJ 250' AGL or 200' ASL or 100' ULL or <50' over the oggin with noone watching!
Not that I'm in current flying practice these days - haven't been for a while, still - the money's good!
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Hoots
Just to correct one slight inaccuracy in your last post - GD branch only exists now for wg cdrs and above (and then all branches become GD). Aviation branch Sqn Ldrs and below are now Flying branch ie Fg(P), Fg(WSO) etc.
Makes no difference though - still get flying pay on an enforced ground tour.
TL
Just to correct one slight inaccuracy in your last post - GD branch only exists now for wg cdrs and above (and then all branches become GD). Aviation branch Sqn Ldrs and below are now Flying branch ie Fg(P), Fg(WSO) etc.
Makes no difference though - still get flying pay on an enforced ground tour.
TL
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Hoots, you are supposed to beep when you go in reverse old chap. In your first post, you claim that NCA are the most "proffesional" aircrew and yet you still havent managed to give any logical reason/argument as to why this might be the case, now at the risk of this becoming a p!ssing competition, I would really like to hear why you think that is.
Now I hope you enjoy your fishing!
"An Officer type"
Now I hope you enjoy your fishing!
"An Officer type"
Join Date: Dec 2004
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NCA
Too true - Im an Officer tyope and Ive been flying since 1981 without a break. No desk jobs, no ground tours. Continuous flying...does that make me a prof(f)essional..?
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Titan, I stand corrected. As for everyone else I do not intend any offence and am only jesting with you with regards professionalism. That topic always winds up a few officer chums around the bizzares at ISK. Since the GD tag has been removed, cheers Titan, i'll just have to think up something else to continue a bit of banter.
However, can anyone answer the question of why is the rate applied at different timescales, i.e. 4 and 8 years for officers and 12 and 22 for NCA?
However, can anyone answer the question of why is the rate applied at different timescales, i.e. 4 and 8 years for officers and 12 and 22 for NCA?
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Hoots the answer to your question is market forces - use the available money in areas where it has the best effect. It has nothing to do with fairness.
To answer the initial point about aircrew in desk jobs getting FP best look at the purpose
'The main object of flying pay is so to enhance pay as to provide in total emoluments an inducement to sufficient numbers of suitable personnel to undertake and continue with a flying career in the RAF. '
If you take it off someone when they are in desk appointments then it reduces the inducement to stay. If they leave then you have to replace them with someone else - from a fg appointment. Thereby, reducing the number of Front Line aircrew. Simple as that.
It is not danger money the UK Services don't have such payments - if there was such a payment there are a significant number of other (grd) appointment in the Armed Forces that could be entitled to a lot of money (EOD operatives etc).
I have no problems with aircrew receiving this - then again I don't have the ability to do their job.
To answer the initial point about aircrew in desk jobs getting FP best look at the purpose
'The main object of flying pay is so to enhance pay as to provide in total emoluments an inducement to sufficient numbers of suitable personnel to undertake and continue with a flying career in the RAF. '
If you take it off someone when they are in desk appointments then it reduces the inducement to stay. If they leave then you have to replace them with someone else - from a fg appointment. Thereby, reducing the number of Front Line aircrew. Simple as that.
It is not danger money the UK Services don't have such payments - if there was such a payment there are a significant number of other (grd) appointment in the Armed Forces that could be entitled to a lot of money (EOD operatives etc).
I have no problems with aircrew receiving this - then again I don't have the ability to do their job.
