A400m
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Trumpville; On the edge
which hopefully will not be late and over budget and not the C130J or C-17 which both were.
...Granted the J was, and possibly the first delivery of the C-17 to the USAF was, but the first RAF C-17 was delivered one year and one day after the decision to lease, IIRC...
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,360
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From: Wiltshire
Audi,
Bit rude fella..... however I apologise for offending your sensibilities but posting facts is always a good start
all spelling misatkes are "df" alcohol induced
Bit rude fella..... however I apologise for offending your sensibilities but posting facts is always a good start
all spelling misatkes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 29th November 2004 at 22:58.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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From: Trumpville; On the edge
however I apologise for offending your sensibilities
'orl speling misaktes are "fd" alkuhol indooced'
(Let's hope your maths is better than your grasp of basic English, for the sake of the rest of your crew)
...when is the first metal due to be cut for the A400? I guess that there\'s already a FSM or 2 knocking about, but what of the real thing? Beags? Anybody?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 48
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From: at home, here, there
No debate about when the RAF got the C-17 as it was bought "off the shelf" (or hired!) as it were.
Do a google search for the long and familiar convoluted history of its entry to service. It was late and over budget.
As was/is C130J/Nimrod 2000/Eurofighter/FSTA . Now A400 is going to break the trend,got to go now Father Christmas is at my front door with some Gucci kit and a sense of perspective for ABIW.
Perhaps he would post the "facts" of how his wonder truck goes so well with less fuel. Anyone from LM how much for leather seats/sat nav/external tanks/winch/metallic paint/sports wheels?
Before the argument loses its point,the C-17 is now a fantastic aeroplane.
Do a google search for the long and familiar convoluted history of its entry to service. It was late and over budget.
As was/is C130J/Nimrod 2000/Eurofighter/FSTA . Now A400 is going to break the trend,got to go now Father Christmas is at my front door with some Gucci kit and a sense of perspective for ABIW.
Perhaps he would post the "facts" of how his wonder truck goes so well with less fuel. Anyone from LM how much for leather seats/sat nav/external tanks/winch/metallic paint/sports wheels?
Before the argument loses its point,the C-17 is now a fantastic aeroplane.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 307
Likes: 1
From: location location
The ‘J’ has phenomenal avionics capability but with a small, elderly design of freight bay and a restrictive MTOW for its performance. The C-17 has a fantastic freight bay, but with avionics that are at least a generation old for a true 2 man flight deck – stay in your seat and reset a CB anyone? What lessons can be learned to take to the A-400 I wonder....
It's not difficult to see a wish list of what would make a world beater – C-17 standard of freight bay, C-130J standard of avionics if not the next generation, C-17 / C-130J short field performance when full and a freight bay that’s no smaller than a Belfast’s. In fact, a Belfast with a new flight deck, engines and cargo handling system!
Unfortunately it would appear to me that the A-400 is suffering from having some of the wrong people as advisors, people who were not exactly at the cutting edge of prop, avionics or cargo handling technology before getting there, but who are expected to give an input. How can they be analytical on matters that they’re not even familiar with?
And will anyone, please, ANYONE associated with the project convince the accountants that a decent DAS is NOT an optional extra?
It's not difficult to see a wish list of what would make a world beater – C-17 standard of freight bay, C-130J standard of avionics if not the next generation, C-17 / C-130J short field performance when full and a freight bay that’s no smaller than a Belfast’s. In fact, a Belfast with a new flight deck, engines and cargo handling system!
Unfortunately it would appear to me that the A-400 is suffering from having some of the wrong people as advisors, people who were not exactly at the cutting edge of prop, avionics or cargo handling technology before getting there, but who are expected to give an input. How can they be analytical on matters that they’re not even familiar with?
And will anyone, please, ANYONE associated with the project convince the accountants that a decent DAS is NOT an optional extra?
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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From: Trumpville; On the edge
The C-17 has a fantastic freight bay, but with avionics that are at least a generation old for a true 2 man flight deck – stay in your seat and reset a CB anyone?
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,395
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Current Airbus philosophy is that any c/b which trips after taxying shall not be reset..... The a/c systems are sufficiently reliable and have sufficient redundancy to remove any need for 'critical' c/b reset - unless its crew-initiated trip-and-reset to re-boot certain avionic items.
A400M is being designed with the 'lower deck' very much in mind. Plus DASS, advanced cargo handling and every other item resulting from lessons learned in recent conflicts.
So it's up to the customer to convince his bean counters that what is available is essential.
Oink oink, flap flap......
A400M is being designed with the 'lower deck' very much in mind. Plus DASS, advanced cargo handling and every other item resulting from lessons learned in recent conflicts.
So it's up to the customer to convince his bean counters that what is available is essential.
Oink oink, flap flap......
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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From: Trumpville; On the edge
I don't want to start a 17 - J - K argument
A possible reason why the J back-end received so little attention could be the fact that LMAS went for joint Military/FAA certification from the outset, perhaps concentrating too much on the latter at the expense of the former, but it also has to be said that the right people, i.e. backenders, were not consulted enough, if indeed at all.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 621
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow.
Wilts,
" Try reading the post again, you @rse...exactly where does it mention ANYTHING about a K?......w@nker "
Methinks Audi and Bill O' Average may have graduated from the same charm school !!
" Try reading the post again, you @rse...exactly where does it mention ANYTHING about a K?......w@nker "
Methinks Audi and Bill O' Average may have graduated from the same charm school !!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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From: Trumpville; On the edge
A Blindingly Incompetent W@nker....
.....
....corr ected and mathe matical......Oxford Concise Dictionary refers...
...you should spend less time drinking your 'df' meths and back-slapping your chum E5, and more on basic English revision....
corected a mathmatical error
...you should spend less time drinking your 'df' meths and back-slapping your chum E5, and more on basic English revision....
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 621
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow.
TT,
My last post was intended as a bit of light banter after a long day and a fairly generous nightcap of Mr Tesco's finest Brandy.
Your last opener however........ " A Blindingly Incompetent W@nker... " came over a bit strong and wasn't really in the " spirit " of things. Lighten up and have one on me ( duty paid ).
Regards to all,
E5.
Edited to correct spelling error.
My last post was intended as a bit of light banter after a long day and a fairly generous nightcap of Mr Tesco's finest Brandy.
Your last opener however........ " A Blindingly Incompetent W@nker... " came over a bit strong and wasn't really in the " spirit " of things. Lighten up and have one on me ( duty paid ).
Regards to all,
E5.
Edited to correct spelling error.
Last edited by Echo 5; 1st December 2004 at 16:41.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 142
Likes: 16
From: OZ
It's all very well for these efficient Turbo Props such as C130J and A400 to be able to cruise in the FL 300's plus, but at the speeds they fly it often does/will not fit in with ATC and " Faster following Traffic".
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 779
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From: YES
so will the RAF operatete a 3 aircraft Cargo transport fleet
ie C17,C130J and C17 or will a type be chopped? Personaly I think we should get some more C17's and bring the fleet up to 9-10 airframes. And see which is better the 400m or the J and concentrate on the Better Aircraft.
ie C17,C130J and C17 or will a type be chopped? Personaly I think we should get some more C17's and bring the fleet up to 9-10 airframes. And see which is better the 400m or the J and concentrate on the Better Aircraft.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 96
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From: States sometimes
Nurse,
Not sure about 3 ac types being C17, Js and C17s again?? However, I do agree with your sentiments but write off the K at your peril as the beancounters will prefer it over the J every time. I think I've already said that with a fleet of 17s and Js what more could you possibly want! As an aside, the Brits had the A400M contract re-written in order to stop the Germans 'pulling out', its now so watertight that we (the UK) are also committed 'till the bitter end even if we did want to pull out (which we probably do owing to the overwhelming success of the C 17)!!
In answer to your question, I believe that the wish is to operate 2 ac types in the tactical airlift role ie. perm any 2 from Js, Ks, C17s & A400Ms.
GM
Not sure about 3 ac types being C17, Js and C17s again?? However, I do agree with your sentiments but write off the K at your peril as the beancounters will prefer it over the J every time. I think I've already said that with a fleet of 17s and Js what more could you possibly want! As an aside, the Brits had the A400M contract re-written in order to stop the Germans 'pulling out', its now so watertight that we (the UK) are also committed 'till the bitter end even if we did want to pull out (which we probably do owing to the overwhelming success of the C 17)!!
In answer to your question, I believe that the wish is to operate 2 ac types in the tactical airlift role ie. perm any 2 from Js, Ks, C17s & A400Ms.
GM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 276
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From: uk
regarding turbo props in the upper air. have heard the comment been mentioned repeatedly that although some turbo props can make it to the higher levels, FL300 and above, they arent allowed up there due to their speed. really not sure where this comes from. the J model herc can cruise quite comfortably at all levels up to about FL320 or so and maintain 320 to 340tas. this only relates to about M0.6 or a touch less. even so, i have never had a problem with controllers restricting my flight, not letting me up or forcing me down. even though we are quite a bit slower than anything else up there we manage to fit in. the only problem i have encountered regarding upper air is when we get in to RVSM. the RAF hercs do not currently have RVSM certification and so may be held down or given vectors to keep required separation. this has only ever been a problem over france who are quite picky about it for some reason, everyone else is happy for us to be up there.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,395
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Would whoever it was who sent me a PM regarding the ALM subject matter expertise for A400M please send me another. Trumpet trousers, was it you? Senility and Glenfiddich have degraded my memory cells!
I've been asked to trawl for an experienced tactical fixed wing ALM who might be available to work on the A400M programme in Hamburg - and whoever it was definitely expressed an interest.
I've been asked to trawl for an experienced tactical fixed wing ALM who might be available to work on the A400M programme in Hamburg - and whoever it was definitely expressed an interest.
