Should the UK procure and licence build US designed aircraft?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Petty VP.You say it yourself,
"I read the original question as intended, I suspect, in that "UK procure" means "UK Government procure", not "Middle East Government procure".
Should the UK procure and licence build US designed aircraft?
Why cannot the question be asked to cover the whole aviation industry? I obviously read the question differently.
I added the pic of the WS-70 especially, as it was a point of mine during the BLUH presentations a while back. So the size of my testicular region is of no consequence as I am more than capable of owning up to my mistakes if needs be.
Why was it singled out in my montage and why didn't I include other aircraft?
It's the only one on the WHL site and the thread isn't just for you and I to contribute to. Others can mention the rest.
As you quite correctly state, "WHL (more correctly the overarching company, Agusta Westland) is now effectively a wholly Italian company, not British. It's been half Italian for the past few years in fact.
However, if you would be so kind as to read my post from the WH-70 article on the WHL site, you would notice the line ;
"events were overtaken by the outbreak of the Gulf War. "
I didn't realise that Agusta Westland had been running the show at Yeovil for the past 13 years. But if I'm wrong, at least I will have the sacs to say it!
"I read the original question as intended, I suspect, in that "UK procure" means "UK Government procure", not "Middle East Government procure".
Should the UK procure and licence build US designed aircraft?
Why cannot the question be asked to cover the whole aviation industry? I obviously read the question differently.
I added the pic of the WS-70 especially, as it was a point of mine during the BLUH presentations a while back. So the size of my testicular region is of no consequence as I am more than capable of owning up to my mistakes if needs be.
Why was it singled out in my montage and why didn't I include other aircraft?
It's the only one on the WHL site and the thread isn't just for you and I to contribute to. Others can mention the rest.
As you quite correctly state, "WHL (more correctly the overarching company, Agusta Westland) is now effectively a wholly Italian company, not British. It's been half Italian for the past few years in fact.
However, if you would be so kind as to read my post from the WH-70 article on the WHL site, you would notice the line ;
"events were overtaken by the outbreak of the Gulf War. "
I didn't realise that Agusta Westland had been running the show at Yeovil for the past 13 years. But if I'm wrong, at least I will have the sacs to say it!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Stroppy, maybe. 
Last year, fraid not.
---------
Anyway, perhaps the way this thread has gone, has actually highlighted a good scenario for Aynayda's presentation.
See how much the WH-70 was being built for at Yeovil adjusted for todays rates and compare it to the off the shelf cost from Sikorsky.
No doubt allow for the extra cost for a UK variant such as
RR engines
weapon platform changes
gun fits
ashtray/cup holder removal,
etc.
If possible, compare costings/time down with directly comparable aircraft currently used by both UK and other countries, EH-101, S-61, AS355 and try and come up with a reasonable guesstimate for the Blackhawk.
I'm sure that could fill a good 45 minute presentation.
If it's more expensive to build in UK buy from manufacturer.
If it's cheaper, see above.
I'm sure there are a lot more things to add, but isn't this Aynayda Pizaqvick's presentation?
Another of the group could do a fixed wing version.
I may be talking Bo££ix, but I'm only trying to help as the Wx is below limits now it's dark out there!
Last year, fraid not.
---------
Anyway, perhaps the way this thread has gone, has actually highlighted a good scenario for Aynayda's presentation.
See how much the WH-70 was being built for at Yeovil adjusted for todays rates and compare it to the off the shelf cost from Sikorsky.
No doubt allow for the extra cost for a UK variant such as
RR engines
weapon platform changes
gun fits
ashtray/cup holder removal,
etc.
If possible, compare costings/time down with directly comparable aircraft currently used by both UK and other countries, EH-101, S-61, AS355 and try and come up with a reasonable guesstimate for the Blackhawk.
I'm sure that could fill a good 45 minute presentation.
If it's more expensive to build in UK buy from manufacturer.
If it's cheaper, see above.
I'm sure there are a lot more things to add, but isn't this Aynayda Pizaqvick's presentation?
Another of the group could do a fixed wing version.
I may be talking Bo££ix, but I'm only trying to help as the Wx is below limits now it's dark out there!
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I think you would be suprised how much US kit is made up of UK black boxes.
Try looking in the fairy racks on a C17 and see who makes the kit.
As said previously the airframe manufacture is generally small change in the overall purchase.
Try looking in the fairy racks on a C17 and see who makes the kit.
As said previously the airframe manufacture is generally small change in the overall purchase.
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I hope you can excuse me parking my civvy behind in this forum and going off at a slight tangent, but personal experience illustrates how important work for firms such as BAE is to what's left of the UK manufacturing industry.
A salient point indeed. Numerous associates of mine that work in specialist engineering / design fields have migrated overseas in past times due to the lack of employment opportunities in Blighty, a creeping brain-drain has taken hold over some time.
Aside from recession in the high-class call girl racket, let’s imagine... My job involves visiting numerous fabrication / machining / finishing etc facilities; upon enquiring about what the firms are making, a typical response would be: "they’re for BAE, those are for BA engineering, that’s for DERA" and so on.
I’d estimate that well over 50% (probably nearer 70% or 80%) of the items I see on the lines at the facilities I visit are for aerospace. With health + safety, labour costs, cost of raw materials, cost of land etc being what they are in the UK, we are unable to produce volume goods cost-effectively, and what’s left of our once great manufacturing industry (800,000 jobs lost since ’97...) has to live on scraps fed to it by firms such as BAE for one-off orders.
The work performed for BAE has to be to a high standard compared with other markets such as automotive etc, and requires skill inherent in the UK infrastructure for which BAE pay a premium. I would go as far as to say that work given to the facilities by the likes of BAE in effect enables my non-aviation company to remain manufacturing in the UK.
There’s little doubt in my mind that if the aerospace market dropped away tomorrow I would have no option but to get on a jumbo to Taiwan as the UK facilities would simply shut down...
From an industry point of view if we procure all COTS/MOTS equipment from overseas we lose our industrial know-how and before long there isn't an economy to defend.
Imagine a UK without BAE Sys and its subsidiarys....
I’d estimate that well over 50% (probably nearer 70% or 80%) of the items I see on the lines at the facilities I visit are for aerospace. With health + safety, labour costs, cost of raw materials, cost of land etc being what they are in the UK, we are unable to produce volume goods cost-effectively, and what’s left of our once great manufacturing industry (800,000 jobs lost since ’97...) has to live on scraps fed to it by firms such as BAE for one-off orders.
The work performed for BAE has to be to a high standard compared with other markets such as automotive etc, and requires skill inherent in the UK infrastructure for which BAE pay a premium. I would go as far as to say that work given to the facilities by the likes of BAE in effect enables my non-aviation company to remain manufacturing in the UK.
There’s little doubt in my mind that if the aerospace market dropped away tomorrow I would have no option but to get on a jumbo to Taiwan as the UK facilities would simply shut down...
