conducting all flight training on turboprops without prior screening...
Thread Starter
conducting all flight training on turboprops without prior screening...
Hello all
Our "Fuerza Aerea de la banana republica Irlanda" has a new fleet of Pilatus PC-9Ms and proposes to start initial flight training of new cadets on them, with no prior screening, except for a "see if they don't get sick" flight in a Marchetti. Personally, I think this is absolutely daft. Informed opinion has it that a Martin-Baker letdown will happen, not too long after. Your thoughts?
regards
TDD
Our "Fuerza Aerea de la banana republica Irlanda" has a new fleet of Pilatus PC-9Ms and proposes to start initial flight training of new cadets on them, with no prior screening, except for a "see if they don't get sick" flight in a Marchetti. Personally, I think this is absolutely daft. Informed opinion has it that a Martin-Baker letdown will happen, not too long after. Your thoughts?
regards
TDD
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Why on earth should it be any more problematical than doing all training on the Jey Provost which is what the RAF did for a while some years back? I'm sure BEagle can give us chapter and verse.
As far as I know, the only piston aircraft the RAF use, BBMF excepted, are the Tutors and Fireflies and they don't service them. If it weren't for the development of diesel engines, it wouldn't be too many years before you would see turbines in civvie trainers.
Mike W
As far as I know, the only piston aircraft the RAF use, BBMF excepted, are the Tutors and Fireflies and they don't service them. If it weren't for the development of diesel engines, it wouldn't be too many years before you would see turbines in civvie trainers.
Mike W
You're lucky that all your cadets will receive training on a proper military trainer over there in Eire!
In the Rental Air Force, only those destined for pointy jets fly the Spicano - the poor sods going to ME only fly lightplanes (Das Teutor or the Fruitfly) before moving on to flying the King Air ME trainer.
Once upon a time, the Jet Provost was indeed used as a 'straight through' trainer with good results. But expensive, so UAS Chipmunk graduates were given a shorter course. Then EFTS was re-invented yet again.....
SF 260 air experience pre-PC9M? A lot of RAF students would be green with envy!
To be sure!
In the Rental Air Force, only those destined for pointy jets fly the Spicano - the poor sods going to ME only fly lightplanes (Das Teutor or the Fruitfly) before moving on to flying the King Air ME trainer.
Once upon a time, the Jet Provost was indeed used as a 'straight through' trainer with good results. But expensive, so UAS Chipmunk graduates were given a shorter course. Then EFTS was re-invented yet again.....
SF 260 air experience pre-PC9M? A lot of RAF students would be green with envy!
To be sure!
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The PC9 in the RAAF all through concept was reasonably successful, however basic flight screening is still part of the process.
The arguement that the loss of a basic fast jet training capability
for ab-initio pilot training has reduced the overall standard, will remain bar banter for the remainder of most peoples natural bar lives.
The irony is that the very aeroplane that constituted 1FTS before the all through 2 FTS PC9 concept, the CT4, is now the backbone of the flight screening environment and essentially has been reborn as 1FTS in disguise.
My personal opinion is that the basic piston training environment still forms an essential part of modern miltary and civil aviation training and if the current situation with the RAAF/RAF/RNZAF/RAFO/RMAF/TuAF etc. is anything to go by, I don't think my opinion is necessarily remote.
The arguement that the loss of a basic fast jet training capability
for ab-initio pilot training has reduced the overall standard, will remain bar banter for the remainder of most peoples natural bar lives.
The irony is that the very aeroplane that constituted 1FTS before the all through 2 FTS PC9 concept, the CT4, is now the backbone of the flight screening environment and essentially has been reborn as 1FTS in disguise.
My personal opinion is that the basic piston training environment still forms an essential part of modern miltary and civil aviation training and if the current situation with the RAAF/RAF/RNZAF/RAFO/RMAF/TuAF etc. is anything to go by, I don't think my opinion is necessarily remote.
Thread Starter
Hi all
Thank you for your interesting and entertaining replies. The SF 260 is a fine aircraft but is still a handful for an ab-initio and the new cadets have only had one or two flights. In it's operational history in the Irish Air Corps, they have spent an awful long time grounded having the retractable undercarriage repaired after repeated heavy landings during cadet training. I don't doubt that the PC-9s will spend just as much time up on jacks being repaired and that the actual cost of training ab-initio cadets will soar. If all those air forces listed by Fox3 have a screening system, I don't see why our lot shouldn't follow suit.
regards
TDD
Thank you for your interesting and entertaining replies. The SF 260 is a fine aircraft but is still a handful for an ab-initio and the new cadets have only had one or two flights. In it's operational history in the Irish Air Corps, they have spent an awful long time grounded having the retractable undercarriage repaired after repeated heavy landings during cadet training. I don't doubt that the PC-9s will spend just as much time up on jacks being repaired and that the actual cost of training ab-initio cadets will soar. If all those air forces listed by Fox3 have a screening system, I don't see why our lot shouldn't follow suit.
regards
TDD
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screening
The Canadian Forces conducts screening on the slingsby firefly prior to turboprop training with NFTC. The participating countries; Denmark, Great Britain, Italy, Hungary and Singapore all conduct screening of some sort prior to Moose Jaw as well. I am certain that we could do without the screening but the cost would increase at the same rate as the QFI frustration level.
TDD
IMHO repeated heavy student landings is remedied by improving the level of instruction. The PC-9 has pretty robust gear and didn't seem to suffer too much time 'up on jacks' during ab initio training in the RAAF. I agree with Fox3 though, that piston training seems to be an integral part of any training pipeline. Cost is the primary driver in all of this.
