eagle eye - dress code
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: uk
eagle eye - dress code
On next week's eagle eye exercise the RAF Chopper Aircrew have been ordered to wear Ground Clothing instead of Flying Clothing, loads of guys moaning about it, the Brass don't care - Looking like a cabbage is more important than Flight Safety! Thanks JHC!!!!
Discuss
Discuss
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 1
From: UK
Surely there must be a raft of regulations somewhere that specifies the correct clothing to be worn for flying duties - there certainly was in my day [up until a few years ago]. You can't willy-nilly change the regs - after all, flying kit [inc cabbage flying kit] is specifically designed for working aircrew to wear in the aircraft. The chopper back-end is designed to carry non-flying kitted people, so if buttons, etc, get torn off it won't affect the operation of the ac, but might do in the cockpit.
I suggest a Condor, or a call to the big white chief, flight safety [whatever he is now called] is in order - I'd certainly make that call Monday morning if it was me at the receiving end of a lunatic decision like that. What's your unit FSO doing about it?
I suggest a Condor, or a call to the big white chief, flight safety [whatever he is now called] is in order - I'd certainly make that call Monday morning if it was me at the receiving end of a lunatic decision like that. What's your unit FSO doing about it?
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Hampshire
Wearing a nomex suit and a green rollneck shirt isn't going to provide any sort of flight safety at all! When the Chinook BBQ starts, fueled by at least 5 tonnes of aviation fuel, how long do you think that a Mk 15 will stop you burning for?
When the nasty men come to ask questions who would you sooner be? Flt Lt Knowitall or Pte Greyman!!
The real question is of insurance! How many times have you seen a colleague climb into an aircraft with unauthorised kit on? If there were to be an accident you can bet that some slimey Govt Lawyer would try to stop your family/loved ones getting any compensation due, just because you were too smart to dress correctly. JHC has given authority for a far more practical dress. Especially now that the SHF are getting to the sharp end a lot more. More importantly the ones left behing are now safeguarded.
FJJP - Things have, as you say changed a bit since you left! Nobody in JHC is changing the regs willy nilly. The regs and the proviso for wearing combat clothing was agreed at Tri-Service level. Way above ossie's pay scale!!!
At the end of the day - "Shut Up and Get On With It"
Bloody Whinging Aircrew.
When the nasty men come to ask questions who would you sooner be? Flt Lt Knowitall or Pte Greyman!!
The real question is of insurance! How many times have you seen a colleague climb into an aircraft with unauthorised kit on? If there were to be an accident you can bet that some slimey Govt Lawyer would try to stop your family/loved ones getting any compensation due, just because you were too smart to dress correctly. JHC has given authority for a far more practical dress. Especially now that the SHF are getting to the sharp end a lot more. More importantly the ones left behing are now safeguarded.
FJJP - Things have, as you say changed a bit since you left! Nobody in JHC is changing the regs willy nilly. The regs and the proviso for wearing combat clothing was agreed at Tri-Service level. Way above ossie's pay scale!!!
At the end of the day - "Shut Up and Get On With It"
Bloody Whinging Aircrew.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
After the Hercules accident in some Balkan $hithole or other not that long ago where escape from the burning wreckage was impeded for one of the aircrew because he was wearing Clockwork Squaddie 95 instead of approved flying clothing (and he was caught by the belt loop whilst trying to get out of the flight deck window), The Word went round that ONLY approved flying clothing was to be worn by aircrew.....
Has the RAF forgotten such basic lessons so quickly?
Why do you think it takes so long to approve flying clothing? It's not for reasons of sartorial elegance, "Me master race, you dung-eating grunt" or whatever. It's because there's an effing good reason.
Suggest someone send the tw@t who 'ordered' such bolleaux a copy of the Accident Report........
Before someone else nearly dies......
Has the RAF forgotten such basic lessons so quickly?
Why do you think it takes so long to approve flying clothing? It's not for reasons of sartorial elegance, "Me master race, you dung-eating grunt" or whatever. It's because there's an effing good reason.
Suggest someone send the tw@t who 'ordered' such bolleaux a copy of the Accident Report........
Before someone else nearly dies......
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 31
From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Be careful you do not get what you ask for here..... Those of you who know me will recall my anal requirement as a sqn boss to wear ONLY authorised flying clothing after my treatment by a 'fatal' board of inquiry. I remember one particular exercise where we had to change in the helicopter into flying kit and change back when we wanted to get out. What a pain in the jacksy!!
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Excuse the bleeding obvious, but why hasn't someone come up with a growbag in Clockwork Squaddie 95 pattern?
't would seem fairly simple to do?
't would seem fairly simple to do?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 66
From: Alles über die platz
BEagle,
I don't know if it is still in service, but the 'approved flying combat suit certainly had belt loops in which to loop the 'approved' nylon web belt.
Also the jacket pockets were buttoned which would have the same catching effect, as many a cam net proved!
PTT,
The whole issue of Flt Safety and clothing depends on also having natural fibres as under clothing, so wearing C95 under the suit is probably as dangerous as not wearing it. Although, sadly, the majority do wear C95 under their suit as a matter of course, as they did with lightweight trousers. Its a shame the Army got rid of the OG trousers, pure cotton, but creased easily. Not smart Sgt Major!!
Timex,
"All DPM kit is now authorised by JHC to be worn, and what is the difference if you are in the front or the back, a fire is a fire."
Can you get that in writing? and who from JHC will stand up in court over this?
Amateur Aviator has it exactly. The same effect as when tidying up the ends of a length of para cord!
Gary Astazu,
It's not a matter of how it performs when you are sat in the BBQ as you say, its enough to give you extra time if by then you haven't inhaled the vapour/smoke etc.
From the DuPont site itself, what is Nomex?
Flame resistant, not proof.
This subject was always good for a pre-exercise discussion, as was cam cream when you are sat in a chuffing big whirly shiny loud thing.
Memories of Dartmoor, aircrew sat having a chat, SSM pipes up,
"Oy! you lot keep the noise down we're supposed to be tactical, so shut the fcuk up!"
Immediately followed by...... the ignitors of 4 Lynx sparking up. (couldn't have timed it better.)
Timex;
As for running away from the enemy in an E&E situation.
You've got to survive the crash first!!!
Besides, do you wear flying boots, aircrew/flashy watch. By the Geneva convention you have to divulge your rank, so perhaps Flt Lt etc is a bit of a giveaway!
(and he was caught by the belt loop whilst trying to get out of the flight deck window)
Also the jacket pockets were buttoned which would have the same catching effect, as many a cam net proved!
PTT,
The whole issue of Flt Safety and clothing depends on also having natural fibres as under clothing, so wearing C95 under the suit is probably as dangerous as not wearing it. Although, sadly, the majority do wear C95 under their suit as a matter of course, as they did with lightweight trousers. Its a shame the Army got rid of the OG trousers, pure cotton, but creased easily. Not smart Sgt Major!!
Timex,
"All DPM kit is now authorised by JHC to be worn, and what is the difference if you are in the front or the back, a fire is a fire."
Can you get that in writing? and who from JHC will stand up in court over this?
Amateur Aviator has it exactly. The same effect as when tidying up the ends of a length of para cord!
Gary Astazu,
It's not a matter of how it performs when you are sat in the BBQ as you say, its enough to give you extra time if by then you haven't inhaled the vapour/smoke etc.
From the DuPont site itself, what is Nomex?
The inherently flame-resistant properties provided by NOMEX® mean that those who rely on it are safe and protected from the hazards they face on the job every day.
This subject was always good for a pre-exercise discussion, as was cam cream when you are sat in a chuffing big whirly shiny loud thing.
Memories of Dartmoor, aircrew sat having a chat, SSM pipes up,
"Oy! you lot keep the noise down we're supposed to be tactical, so shut the fcuk up!"
Immediately followed by...... the ignitors of 4 Lynx sparking up. (couldn't have timed it better.)
Timex;
As for running away from the enemy in an E&E situation.
You've got to survive the crash first!!!
Besides, do you wear flying boots, aircrew/flashy watch. By the Geneva convention you have to divulge your rank, so perhaps Flt Lt etc is a bit of a giveaway!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Hampshire
Ossie,
Me thinks you are being a little economic with the truth.
You have not been "ordered to wear CS95", you have been given JHC authority to wear it, but can wear what you prefer - subtley different from the spin you put on it. The brass don't care?
From the variety of responses placed here people clearly have their own views on what to wear in an exercise/operational environment.
It going to be wet, cold, Scotland, muddy and in long grass - I know what I'll be wearing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But hey, lets not let the truth get in the way of a good winge.
Me thinks you are being a little economic with the truth.
You have not been "ordered to wear CS95", you have been given JHC authority to wear it, but can wear what you prefer - subtley different from the spin you put on it. The brass don't care?
From the variety of responses placed here people clearly have their own views on what to wear in an exercise/operational environment.
It going to be wet, cold, Scotland, muddy and in long grass - I know what I'll be wearing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But hey, lets not let the truth get in the way of a good winge.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 0
Likes: 3
From: uk
How sad that we have come to this? Squaddie down the back in Cbt 95 will burn regardless. Front end lot need to worry more about flying the thing than if they will burn on impact. Utter crap if u ask me. You crash at speed in CH47 or C130 you die pretty much straight away. XV193 crew not saved by poxy nomex suit. Mull Of K CH47 lot. Dead. Flying suit or not. They look crap and are a waste of cash. If it was so critical to flight safety then ALL passengers should be issued Nomex too. ???
Wake up and smell..............the burning flesh!
Wake up and smell..............the burning flesh!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
That's where you are soooooooo wrong. Aircrew, unlike their lardy blunt counterparts, look bl@@dy good in everything they wear
Nice to see Grim posting in his usual literary manner
Beag's I am pretty sure it is undergoing testing as we speak!
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Nice to see Grim posting in his usual literary manner
Beag's I am pretty sure it is undergoing testing as we speak!
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 8th October 2004 at 23:10.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Hope that HM's winter fashion statement meets your needs!
Presumably there's also going to be a desert version, as you seem to spend more time in the Great Sandtray than you do in the civilised world these days?
Presumably there's also going to be a desert version, as you seem to spend more time in the Great Sandtray than you do in the civilised world these days?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 566
Likes: 1
From: Anywhere
SS,
look in your various Service Deviations and you will find out who authorised / authorises the wearing of the kit (certainly for Army and Navy)
CS 95 is crap thats why we were wear Jungle lightweights (cotton), or desert cams, plus they are actually cooler in hot climes
Not everyone is a Flt Lt, so any bit of anonimity works. Maybe we should all have the same rank system!!
Buttons a snagging hazard ? try an armoured seat (but would you want that taken out)??
look in your various Service Deviations and you will find out who authorised / authorises the wearing of the kit (certainly for Army and Navy)
CS 95 is crap thats why we were wear Jungle lightweights (cotton), or desert cams, plus they are actually cooler in hot climes
Not everyone is a Flt Lt, so any bit of anonimity works. Maybe we should all have the same rank system!!
Buttons a snagging hazard ? try an armoured seat (but would you want that taken out)??