eagle eye - dress code
Join Date: May 2003
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I think you will all find that the wording from JHC was that 'dispensation has been granted for the wearing of CS95 by aircrew.'
So there is NO dress code for the Ex and the choice is up to ourselves, but i know what i am wearing if it gets a little bit chilly! Snow anyone? for when we are in West Freugh come Thursday/Friday.
So there is NO dress code for the Ex and the choice is up to ourselves, but i know what i am wearing if it gets a little bit chilly! Snow anyone? for when we are in West Freugh come Thursday/Friday.
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Siloesid
I'm well aware of the principle behind the layer system if fire protection of which the nomex suit is a part. I'll be going on EE, and, bearing in mind that it's Scotland in October, I'll be wearing CS95 with long johns underneath and the standard CS95 t-shirt/shirt combination when on the ground, replacing the top half with a roll-neck (and maybe even a Norwegian army shirt) then placing a flying suit over the top when flying.
The whole point of allowing flight with non-protective flying clothing is a part of a risk management strategy allowing assessment of whether aircrew should be able to be more effective on E&E should the need arise or blend in with troops at FOBs etc against the possibility of fire in the aircraft - hence the lack of complaints on TELIC etc (although some provision of desert flying suits to therefore have had the option would have been nice).
Eagle's Eye is intended to be as realistic as possible so, as per ops in the early days of TELIC last year, we are operating from an FOB at, on or close to the border or beyond. The threat from snipers etc in such a situation is real and the idea is to blend in where possible. I know it won't be 100% effective but it's better than sticking out all of the time.
That said, it is an exercise and, as such, safety of crew and aircraft is the primary responsibility of the captain and, as such, I will play by exercise rules and exercise risks when on the ground. However, when we are flying and the risks are real, I will take the appropriate precautions to minimise them by wearing flying clothing. In this exercise no-one is going to die if you take 2 minutes to get changed before going flying, but you might if you don't.
And, should anyone decide that such action is outside the desires of exercise play, it's my aircraft, I'm captain, and I'll do what I need to in order to ensure the safety of the crew and passengers iaw JSP550. So long as I get the job done no-one can have any complaints, can they?
PTT
I'm well aware of the principle behind the layer system if fire protection of which the nomex suit is a part. I'll be going on EE, and, bearing in mind that it's Scotland in October, I'll be wearing CS95 with long johns underneath and the standard CS95 t-shirt/shirt combination when on the ground, replacing the top half with a roll-neck (and maybe even a Norwegian army shirt) then placing a flying suit over the top when flying.
The whole point of allowing flight with non-protective flying clothing is a part of a risk management strategy allowing assessment of whether aircrew should be able to be more effective on E&E should the need arise or blend in with troops at FOBs etc against the possibility of fire in the aircraft - hence the lack of complaints on TELIC etc (although some provision of desert flying suits to therefore have had the option would have been nice).
Eagle's Eye is intended to be as realistic as possible so, as per ops in the early days of TELIC last year, we are operating from an FOB at, on or close to the border or beyond. The threat from snipers etc in such a situation is real and the idea is to blend in where possible. I know it won't be 100% effective but it's better than sticking out all of the time.
That said, it is an exercise and, as such, safety of crew and aircraft is the primary responsibility of the captain and, as such, I will play by exercise rules and exercise risks when on the ground. However, when we are flying and the risks are real, I will take the appropriate precautions to minimise them by wearing flying clothing. In this exercise no-one is going to die if you take 2 minutes to get changed before going flying, but you might if you don't.
And, should anyone decide that such action is outside the desires of exercise play, it's my aircraft, I'm captain, and I'll do what I need to in order to ensure the safety of the crew and passengers iaw JSP550. So long as I get the job done no-one can have any complaints, can they?
PTT
A flying suit, in my opinion is unsuitable for helicopter crews operating from the field, be it ex or ops.
I presume that you will also all be wearing the issue flying boots, equally unsuitable for field conditions.
By the way, there is snow on the hills already, make your own choice.
I presume that you will also all be wearing the issue flying boots, equally unsuitable for field conditions.
By the way, there is snow on the hills already, make your own choice.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
timex;
Q1. When was the last time an aircraft on exercise crashed because the pilot was shot/injured and lost control with subsequent findings that an armoured seat would have prevented the incident?
Q2. When was the last time an incident ,reported or not, occured when a button or cuff was caught on a flying control?
So in answer to your question, yes, it's extra weight. However it's a training exercise, so sitting position/comfort/inconveniences and weight issues should be practised.
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PTT;
If you were to wear a Norwegian shirt, doesn't the deviation state that when this type of shirt is worn, the buttons are to be replaced with velcro fastenings and a roll neck shirt should be worn underneath because of the plastic zip?
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As a comment on flight safety, I think it necessary to point out that this is an exercise. Risks of any kind do not need to be taken.
Don't let the red or green mist cloud your judgement when it all gets a bit exciting.
Yes, I do think that this preaching is necessary. Practise doing the job first, then look the part when you do it for real.
Buttons a snagging hazard ? try an armoured seat (but would you want that taken out)??
Q2. When was the last time an incident ,reported or not, occured when a button or cuff was caught on a flying control?
So in answer to your question, yes, it's extra weight. However it's a training exercise, so sitting position/comfort/inconveniences and weight issues should be practised.
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PTT;
I'll be wearing CS95 with long johns underneath and the standard CS95 t-shirt/shirt combination when on the ground, replacing the top half with a roll-neck (and maybe even a Norwegian army shirt) then placing a flying suit over the top when flying.
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As a comment on flight safety, I think it necessary to point out that this is an exercise. Risks of any kind do not need to be taken.
Don't let the red or green mist cloud your judgement when it all gets a bit exciting.
Yes, I do think that this preaching is necessary. Practise doing the job first, then look the part when you do it for real.
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Your point Silsoe??
BTW jayteeto, was your last 'green job' a certain key player in a certain Shropshire airbase and have you sold your really nice cottage in the local village? Ill use your user name as a pseudonym.......
Regards, potato head.
BTW jayteeto, was your last 'green job' a certain key player in a certain Shropshire airbase and have you sold your really nice cottage in the local village? Ill use your user name as a pseudonym.......
Regards, potato head.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Eagle 270;
RTFQ
RTFQ
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Not called a cottage anymore. Renamed 'The Gratuity Sponge'. I wear T-Shirts under my flying suit now and my leather jacket was provided by the company. Still like the military flying boots and gloves though.
PS, doesn't velcro melt and stick to flesh in a flash fire?
PS, doesn't velcro melt and stick to flesh in a flash fire?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Eagle270;
I'm not quite sure what needs clarifying.
Armoured seats,
natural fibres,
Buttons,
or Flight Safety
I think what you are after is a repeat of ;
"As a comment on flight safety, I think it necessary to point out that this is an exercise. Risks of any kind do not need to be taken."
jay,
Yes it does, I guess that was also one of the reasons for having to wear a roll neck underneath.
I'm not quite sure what needs clarifying.
Armoured seats,
natural fibres,
Buttons,
or Flight Safety
I think what you are after is a repeat of ;
"As a comment on flight safety, I think it necessary to point out that this is an exercise. Risks of any kind do not need to be taken."
jay,
Yes it does, I guess that was also one of the reasons for having to wear a roll neck underneath.
Sorry if these seems like a stupid question but....... if naval working dress (no4s) can be treated to make it fire retardent then why can't other service clothing that is worn in action (combats, flying suits etc) be treated too?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thanks PTT, I think most of us know the configuration of buttons and zips on a Norwegian jumper! 
I believe the deveation instructions about the buttons on said article of clothing, were due to the way the buttons were sewn on, ie normally and not in the flying combats method.
And just because it will be worn under the flying suit does not make it safe. Thats why natural fibred clothing should be worn under it.
You wouldn't wear a pair of Ron Hills under your flying suit thinking it safe would you?.............would you?
I believe the deveation instructions about the buttons on said article of clothing, were due to the way the buttons were sewn on, ie normally and not in the flying combats method.
And just because it will be worn under the flying suit does not make it safe. Thats why natural fibred clothing should be worn under it.
You wouldn't wear a pair of Ron Hills under your flying suit thinking it safe would you?.............would you?
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SiloeSid
I will be wearing a roll-neck underneath it, as described previously. I'd have to check the SD re the button fastenings (but only if I got really bored!).
On the subject of boots, I clean my pro-boots with silicone-based polish and they are legal iaw JHCFOB
I will be wearing a roll-neck underneath it, as described previously. I'd have to check the SD re the button fastenings (but only if I got really bored!).
On the subject of boots, I clean my pro-boots with silicone-based polish and they are legal iaw JHCFOB
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Nice one serf, however they'd better be military issue or you could be done for being a spy ! 
