BBC reporting Kinloss Nimrod going to aid of sub.
"The Upholder Class was a victim, allegedly, of the 1993 Defence Review. In reality the MOD realised what a bag of s#!t they were and decided to get rid!"
At one time these were sposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Quieter than nukes and better suited to post Cold War type littoral ops, special forces insertion, etc. But not as sexy as having another couple of Vanguards.....
Or that was what Jane's Fighting Ships, JDW and everyone else kept saying.
Was that wrong?
At one time these were sposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Quieter than nukes and better suited to post Cold War type littoral ops, special forces insertion, etc. But not as sexy as having another couple of Vanguards.....
Or that was what Jane's Fighting Ships, JDW and everyone else kept saying.
Was that wrong?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BBC:
A crewman has died after he was injured aboard the stricken Canadian submarine drifting in the Atlantic after a fire.
Lt Chris Saunders was one of three men airlifted to hospital in Ireland from HMCS Chicoutimi on Wednesday evening. The others are said to be stable.
Canada's PM Paul Martin said he "gave his life serving his country and we owe his family our deepest condolences".......
The Ministry of Defence said the injured men were being flown aboard a Royal Navy helicopter to Londonderry in Northern Ireland, but had to divert to Sligo in the Irish Republic when Lt Saunders' condition deteriorated. The combat systems engineer was one of nine crew members who had suffered from smoke inhalation during the fire.
"A medical decision based on his condition was taken to put down in Sligo," a spokesman said. "The helicopter landed as quickly as it could." .......
RIP
------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier, a Canadian commander said the damage on the submarine was more extensive than first thought. Commander of the Canadian Atlantic fleet, Commodore Tyrone Pile, said two fires had broken out causing damage which had prevented them from restoring the submarine's power propulsion system.
"Significant damage" was also caused to the commanding officer's cabin and the electrical equipment room, on separate decks.
Captain Mike Finney of the Royal Navy......said: "The early indications of the situation on board Chicoutimi [are] that the problem is nothing to do with any technical aspect, the design or build."
???????????
A crewman has died after he was injured aboard the stricken Canadian submarine drifting in the Atlantic after a fire.
Lt Chris Saunders was one of three men airlifted to hospital in Ireland from HMCS Chicoutimi on Wednesday evening. The others are said to be stable.
Canada's PM Paul Martin said he "gave his life serving his country and we owe his family our deepest condolences".......
The Ministry of Defence said the injured men were being flown aboard a Royal Navy helicopter to Londonderry in Northern Ireland, but had to divert to Sligo in the Irish Republic when Lt Saunders' condition deteriorated. The combat systems engineer was one of nine crew members who had suffered from smoke inhalation during the fire.
"A medical decision based on his condition was taken to put down in Sligo," a spokesman said. "The helicopter landed as quickly as it could." .......
RIP
------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier, a Canadian commander said the damage on the submarine was more extensive than first thought. Commander of the Canadian Atlantic fleet, Commodore Tyrone Pile, said two fires had broken out causing damage which had prevented them from restoring the submarine's power propulsion system.
"Significant damage" was also caused to the commanding officer's cabin and the electrical equipment room, on separate decks.
Captain Mike Finney of the Royal Navy......said: "The early indications of the situation on board Chicoutimi [are] that the problem is nothing to do with any technical aspect, the design or build."
???????????
Last edited by ORAC; 7th Oct 2004 at 07:12.
sua cuique voluptas
BBC News was saying that the 2nd fire was in, or very close to, an oxygen generator plant.
Jiminy.
The possibility of an oxygen-fed underwater fire doesn't bear thinking about. I'm impressed that the crew were able to save the boat, definately hats off to them.
Nothing to do with the accident, but I got the sense that the deal was partly in exchange for making training areas in Canada available to UK armed services rather than for cash.
Ripline
Jiminy.
The possibility of an oxygen-fed underwater fire doesn't bear thinking about. I'm impressed that the crew were able to save the boat, definately hats off to them.
Nothing to do with the accident, but I got the sense that the deal was partly in exchange for making training areas in Canada available to UK armed services rather than for cash.
Ripline
The real unanswered question is why the 3 injured crewmembers were not taken off the sub on Tuesday evening - both Valley and Prestwick had SAR helicopters sat waiting at Ballykelly for the word to go. Instead the poor sod that died was left for nearly 24 hours until Wednesday afternoon and then collapsed in the conning tower just before winching - he could have been in hospital by midnight on Tuesday. The captain of the sub would appear to have some questions to answer. Yes the weather was not great at the time, it was 20G30 and 15 - 20 ' seas but lots of people have been winched off much trickier things than a sub in much worse conditions.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Thread Starter
The crew would have been well trained for just this event. I would hazard a guess that the death could have come from carbon monoxide poisoning from burning cables etc.
I'm not aware of any criticism levelled at the Upholders when in RN service, formally or otherwise.
The problems encountered by BWoS in reactivating them explains why we have no reserve fleet or standby squadron any more. The best way to keep something serviceable is to keep it running. That goes for a/c as well.
I'm not aware of any criticism levelled at the Upholders when in RN service, formally or otherwise.
The problems encountered by BWoS in reactivating them explains why we have no reserve fleet or standby squadron any more. The best way to keep something serviceable is to keep it running. That goes for a/c as well.
Last edited by Navaleye; 8th Oct 2004 at 16:57.
The Sunday Times reported today:
"Senior British naval sources said last week that Upholder had been known to have problems with its power and electrical systems. “There were issues with the power distribution system including the switchboard in at least Upholder if not all of the class (of submarines),” said the naval source.
The defence documents, released under Canadian freedom of information laws, reveal that the four-year refit of the Chicoutimi by BAE Systems had been a “logistical and mechanical nightmare” and that the submarine had been cannibalised for spares."
Somehow I just knew that 't Bungling Baron had to have been involved in this sorry saga!
Hopefully the boat will soon be back in port - and the questions will begin.
RIP Lt Chris Saunders.
"Senior British naval sources said last week that Upholder had been known to have problems with its power and electrical systems. “There were issues with the power distribution system including the switchboard in at least Upholder if not all of the class (of submarines),” said the naval source.
The defence documents, released under Canadian freedom of information laws, reveal that the four-year refit of the Chicoutimi by BAE Systems had been a “logistical and mechanical nightmare” and that the submarine had been cannibalised for spares."
Somehow I just knew that 't Bungling Baron had to have been involved in this sorry saga!
Hopefully the boat will soon be back in port - and the questions will begin.
RIP Lt Chris Saunders.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I saw a couple of Chicoutimi guys I recognised from the memorial service out walking around today looking very sombre indeed. I hope some way to prevent further incident can be found here and that more effort goes into that process than nailing anyone that might singularly be deemed responsible.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lots of info flying around, this is another version.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../BNStory/Front
I reckon the RCN will get to the bottom of it and publish the results.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../BNStory/Front
I reckon the RCN will get to the bottom of it and publish the results.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Thread Starter
I would have thought that if they sued anyone it would be BWoS. Then they would have to prove a material breach of contract etc. I doubt it will go that far, these things are usually sorted out amicably. Buyer beware as always.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Trumpville; On the edge
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...according to a small article in today's Times, the Canadians have cleared the RN/BWoS from any blame. Apparently, some of the sub's crew have reported hatches in the conning tower being left open, thereby causing seawater to get into the Capt's cabin and causing a short-circuit and subsequent fire.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Preston
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trumpet Old Chap.
What a silly post. Don't want facts and truth to get in the way of the usual ill informed comment and wild theories plus general slagging off directed at Baron Hardupp of BWoS. What will our correspondents be able t put in?
What a silly post. Don't want facts and truth to get in the way of the usual ill informed comment and wild theories plus general slagging off directed at Baron Hardupp of BWoS. What will our correspondents be able t put in?
Suspicion breeds confidence
Thread Starter
Hmnnn. I would have thought it common sense not have both hatches open. The CO obviously had a good reason - but his actions endangered his boat and cost the life of one of his crew. In the RN this would have gone to a Courts Martial for sure.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bonny England
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting Report. It's a shame that the Helo evacuation was delayed. even though the report states the outcome would probably not have differed. Whilst not denying the Captain his command responsibilities, he should really leave it up to the professionals (the SAR Helo crew) to determine whether or not a transfer was possible. No harm having a look.....