UAS Closure
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From: Englandshire
UAS Closure
Saw details of MTWS measures that have been taken by TGDA including the proposal to close all UAS's depending on the outcome of a study in April 05 with an efficiency saving(?) of 52 sqn ldr and flt lt posts.
Any ideas what will replace the UAS's and at what point FJ streaming will take place?
Any ideas what will replace the UAS's and at what point FJ streaming will take place?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Englandshire
MTWS = Medium Term Work Strands = MOD self-hack exercise in efficiency
TGDA = Training Group Defence Agency (part of PTC (Personnel & Training Command))
But then if you don't know these common mil acronyms, you probably can't answer the questions!
TGDA = Training Group Defence Agency (part of PTC (Personnel & Training Command))
But then if you don't know these common mil acronyms, you probably can't answer the questions!
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Just behind the back of beyond....
Now if only you'd said 'Work Strands'....
Dunno about common acronyms, but thanks for the explanation. I don't have answers, but when I do get some, presumably you won't be interested?
Dunno about common acronyms, but thanks for the explanation. I don't have answers, but when I do get some, presumably you won't be interested?
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: An airfield cunningly close the Thames
Surely the whole point of getting rid of JEFTS was so that they could help justify the expense of the UAS system. Where else do they suggest they train graduate ab initios? Does this mean that the RAF will only take non graduates from the date of the study???
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From: EGYD
Well the whole point of JEFTS was to save money across all three services and train all pilots at one location. For some reason the RAF chose to withdraw from the scheme. Now it looks like they'll be forced into it.
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
.....and the loss of yet more QFI slots for novice QFIs to develop their skills.
The number of ageing FTRS QFIs on some UASs when the RAF has an alleged pilot surplus seems very odd...
Is there no end to the beancounters' avarice?
The number of ageing FTRS QFIs on some UASs when the RAF has an alleged pilot surplus seems very odd...
Is there no end to the beancounters' avarice?
Last edited by BEagle; 30th September 2004 at 09:45.
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From: ecosse
This is a follow-on of the errosion of the training base of our Great British Industry
Mining
Shipbuilding
Aircraft
Cars
Building Trades
However, do not be disheartend - we are meeting the targets for Equal Opportunities - Minority Support Groups -Community Divisional Officers - Gay Lesbian Support Groups - Rights for Wimin
The Black Police Officers Association - The Black Lawyers Association - the annual count of White People In City Centres
and how many people will vote for Bliar at the next election
Mining
Shipbuilding
Aircraft
Cars
Building Trades
However, do not be disheartend - we are meeting the targets for Equal Opportunities - Minority Support Groups -Community Divisional Officers - Gay Lesbian Support Groups - Rights for Wimin
The Black Police Officers Association - The Black Lawyers Association - the annual count of White People In City Centres
and how many people will vote for Bliar at the next election
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Posts: 4,343
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From: UK
MTWS
MTWS to most AD mates stands for Manual Track While Scan until some blunt twonk stole it for an acronym meaning "CUTS" (why couldn't they use that word?).
I was listening to a blunt a few months ago talking about MTWS and thought that he actually knew something about flying...how wrong I was!!!
LJ
I was listening to a blunt a few months ago talking about MTWS and thought that he actually knew something about flying...how wrong I was!!!
LJ
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From: Greener lands
The loss of the UAS system would be a tragic loss to say the least. I'm only now entering my 3rd year of 4 as a Pilot bursar and I can see all the arguments for this move - bloggs is too busy doing his gingerbeering to come and fly during term time / Jim seems keen, but evidently is only here for a PPL etc.
But take a step back and see what the UAS does for some people. I've seen bloggs from any no. of freshers' fairs drastically change in their time on the squadron. We don't simply recruit pilots, but also send a lot of people into the various ground branches & of those people who don't make it or decide the RAF isn't for them, they are some of the few among Joe-public that have the slightest understanding of the forces, how they work and why we exist.
(Excuse my spooling & grammar - only a student after all )
But take a step back and see what the UAS does for some people. I've seen bloggs from any no. of freshers' fairs drastically change in their time on the squadron. We don't simply recruit pilots, but also send a lot of people into the various ground branches & of those people who don't make it or decide the RAF isn't for them, they are some of the few among Joe-public that have the slightest understanding of the forces, how they work and why we exist.
(Excuse my spooling & grammar - only a student after all
)
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From: Used to be God's own County
UAS' can't be saved using Trenchards' reasoning - did not spot a single 'future leader of industry' possible during the recent round of recruiting.
Did see lots of delinquent students though!!
Did see lots of delinquent students though!!
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From: UK
Now that every spotty yoof seems to drift towards higher education as a divine right/excuse to delay productive employment, one cannot assume that the Universities are automatically full of our future leaders of industry.
Nor are the UAS's providing a pool of semi-trained aircrew that can be "topped-up" to go into Squadron service in the event of hostilities at short notice.
There is no place for the UAS system in the new MFTS. At least not in the current form. Waste of £££.
Nor are the UAS's providing a pool of semi-trained aircrew that can be "topped-up" to go into Squadron service in the event of hostilities at short notice.
There is no place for the UAS system in the new MFTS. At least not in the current form. Waste of £££.
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From: England
Big G / 6' Tanker
The reason the RAF withdrew from JEFTS was its inability to produce sufficient pilot throughput, hence the Direct Entry flights on a couple of UASs. If you follow that to its logical conclusion if you have a system of providing EFT (UASs) already in your service, why pay a contractor to do it as well? Withdrawing from JEFTS was a real cost saving!
Furthermore it is CAS's stated intention that we should have a younger frontline. If that means taking more pilots direct from school and not from university (better return of service and into the frontline earlier) then that is likely to be the way ahead. As for training ab initio pilots, there was no EFT in the 70s and 80s just straight to BFTS so why should we need it now. Until MFTS decides what it is actually going to provide we are stuck. I suggest about 100 hrs on, say, a PC21 followed by streaming to Gp 1, Gp 2 and Gp 3. Then a few more hrs on the PC21 followed by Hawk, King Air or Squirrel!!!! Or is that herecy?
The reason the RAF withdrew from JEFTS was its inability to produce sufficient pilot throughput, hence the Direct Entry flights on a couple of UASs. If you follow that to its logical conclusion if you have a system of providing EFT (UASs) already in your service, why pay a contractor to do it as well? Withdrawing from JEFTS was a real cost saving!
Furthermore it is CAS's stated intention that we should have a younger frontline. If that means taking more pilots direct from school and not from university (better return of service and into the frontline earlier) then that is likely to be the way ahead. As for training ab initio pilots, there was no EFT in the 70s and 80s just straight to BFTS so why should we need it now. Until MFTS decides what it is actually going to provide we are stuck. I suggest about 100 hrs on, say, a PC21 followed by streaming to Gp 1, Gp 2 and Gp 3. Then a few more hrs on the PC21 followed by Hawk, King Air or Squirrel!!!! Or is that herecy?
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Did you get the OM Sky system sorted, Roly old chum?
Common-core wings course on a high performance military trainer sans EFT, then streaming to FJ, ME or RW? No, no, no old chap - mumble, deep blue water thinking, mumble, mumble, network centric, mumble, mumble, big picture, mumble, mumble "I hear what you say"....
Of course it's the right way. The only way. And if no UAS, then how about service-sponsored PPL-level training whilst at university? Most of us had that pre-university, so why not whilst actually AT university to keep prospective graduates interested without the 'streaming' pressure they currently face?
Common-core wings course on a high performance military trainer sans EFT, then streaming to FJ, ME or RW? No, no, no old chap - mumble, deep blue water thinking, mumble, mumble, network centric, mumble, mumble, big picture, mumble, mumble "I hear what you say"....
Of course it's the right way. The only way. And if no UAS, then how about service-sponsored PPL-level training whilst at university? Most of us had that pre-university, so why not whilst actually AT university to keep prospective graduates interested without the 'streaming' pressure they currently face?
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From: Greener lands
The return to the old days of the UAS system without streaming has always been a non-starter (...release the starter button and wait 30 years. Check all financial settings. Attempt further restart). - The beancounters simply wouldn't cough up. At the end of the day the RAF isn't taking on board as many pilots as it used to (for the next wee while anyway), so guess what squadrons aren't in as great a demand anymore.
Clue:
I don't want to be counted among the last to have experienced the UAS. I'm only at the bottom of the pile looking up as these sort of proposals are generated, it may just blow over or be the next thing to happen to EFT. There are people in here of greater years and experience than me who know better what to make of these things.
Point for thought though: If the UAS system were to fold what questions do you think would soon follow about the other services having university units. Can you imagine the response from the "Royal British Army" if the OTC then suddenly came into the sights of the same 'cost cutting' bodies in Whitehall.
[Excuse the spooling and grammar - only a student after all! ]
Clue:
I don't want to be counted among the last to have experienced the UAS. I'm only at the bottom of the pile looking up as these sort of proposals are generated, it may just blow over or be the next thing to happen to EFT. There are people in here of greater years and experience than me who know better what to make of these things.
Point for thought though: If the UAS system were to fold what questions do you think would soon follow about the other services having university units. Can you imagine the response from the "Royal British Army" if the OTC then suddenly came into the sights of the same 'cost cutting' bodies in Whitehall.
[Excuse the spooling and grammar - only a student after all!
]