Military Ac 'emergencies'
True, and although it can me a little embarassing later, it all comes down to the educated decision of the guy/guys/girl/girls/mixed crew in the front.
If you're watching from the outside, or only listening to the radio, you should not comment if it all ends safely. The crew are very concerned with their own (and passenger) safety above all else.
If you're watching from the outside, or only listening to the radio, you should not comment if it all ends safely. The crew are very concerned with their own (and passenger) safety above all else.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Only thought would be why let something as daft as a noise embargo, normally put in place for visiting VIP's and Staish's promotion prospects, preclude a common sense decision to take a sick aircraft home............................to where all the "expertise"is
all spelling mistakes are"df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are"df" alcohol induced
Join Date: Oct 2003
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One of my Pans
Pan Pan Pan this is Dropkick 43 deadsticking. Request clear the runway and if I don't make it tell them I've lost throttle control and engine producing no power.
Don't call me again I'm busy. Out.
Made it. Clevis pin had not been wire locked in place after an engine change.
Pan Pan Pan this is Dropkick 43 deadsticking. Request clear the runway and if I don't make it tell them I've lost throttle control and engine producing no power.
Don't call me again I'm busy. Out.
Made it. Clevis pin had not been wire locked in place after an engine change.
I've returned to base due to unservicability without declaring an emergency.
I've also returned to base due to unservicability after declaring an emergency.
BOTH required an incident report to be completed.
A diversion/unplanned landing requires the paperwork anyway so the captain isn't dodging that. Perhaps he just wanted to avoid calling wolf and keep the staus of Emergency for when it is one.
(By the way, if you're already talking to ATC don't squawk 7700 unless you can't get a word in edgeways. Maintain your squawk and talk to them.)
I've also returned to base due to unservicability after declaring an emergency.
BOTH required an incident report to be completed.
A diversion/unplanned landing requires the paperwork anyway so the captain isn't dodging that. Perhaps he just wanted to avoid calling wolf and keep the staus of Emergency for when it is one.
(By the way, if you're already talking to ATC don't squawk 7700 unless you can't get a word in edgeways. Maintain your squawk and talk to them.)
Join Date: May 2003
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Seems to me that there is much confusion over the difference between an emergency and an equipment failure. The latter does not always lead to the former. I've had failures which under some circumstances were an emergency and others not. I recall an icing incident in the Lichfield once - aircraft anti-icing failed in CB cloud and ice was evident. Aircraft limited to 5 minutes in mod-severe icing so asked for descent to warmer level. No can do came the response too much conflicting traffic. If you want out of FL180 you'll have to declare an emergency! Pan Pan Pan was the prompt reply!
In the good old days of RAFG we would often squwark 7700 on low level climb out for a radar pickup. Not really an emergency but common practise nonetheless.
The problem with the kids today is that they are taught to do things by numbers rather than think about their situation. On more than one occasion I've had to stop a young nose gunner from diverting because he was short of fuel and heading towards minimum fuel on the ground. So, I would say, you think you might arrive at base with 100 Kg below fuel on the ground and are planning to go to the alternate where after flying for another 50 miles you will arrive with minimum safe landing fuel and no options. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Why not tell base we're a little short and ask that they preserve the runway for us first - if its OK with the other 20 fuel priority aircraft on recovery! Oh and next time I tell you we're Bingo or Joker or whatever new name we're going to give it I expect you to stop having fun and head for home!
An emergency? No just normal operating hazard.
In the good old days of RAFG we would often squwark 7700 on low level climb out for a radar pickup. Not really an emergency but common practise nonetheless.
The problem with the kids today is that they are taught to do things by numbers rather than think about their situation. On more than one occasion I've had to stop a young nose gunner from diverting because he was short of fuel and heading towards minimum fuel on the ground. So, I would say, you think you might arrive at base with 100 Kg below fuel on the ground and are planning to go to the alternate where after flying for another 50 miles you will arrive with minimum safe landing fuel and no options. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Why not tell base we're a little short and ask that they preserve the runway for us first - if its OK with the other 20 fuel priority aircraft on recovery! Oh and next time I tell you we're Bingo or Joker or whatever new name we're going to give it I expect you to stop having fun and head for home!
An emergency? No just normal operating hazard.
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serf
As a mil controller, the former is the preferred option.
The key thing is to attract our attention, get your message across and then deal with getting the ac safely on the ground. Please don't be insulted as I do not intend to teach you to suck eggs but if you can have your emergency tx planned out before you declare the pan/mayday then hopefully ATC will not give you the third degree (ac callsign and type (if not already passed), nature of emergency, pob, intentions and fuel remaining/endurance). That will give us enough information to plan what we will do, prioritize recovery and let D&D know what is going on. I'm sure that other controllers wil add to the things required in the emergency tx that may be specific to their airfield/ac ops etc.
Personally I used to like early use of the 7700 squawk as it lets other units know you have a problem and they will keep out of your way.
Safe flying
Rej
As a mil controller, the former is the preferred option.
The key thing is to attract our attention, get your message across and then deal with getting the ac safely on the ground. Please don't be insulted as I do not intend to teach you to suck eggs but if you can have your emergency tx planned out before you declare the pan/mayday then hopefully ATC will not give you the third degree (ac callsign and type (if not already passed), nature of emergency, pob, intentions and fuel remaining/endurance). That will give us enough information to plan what we will do, prioritize recovery and let D&D know what is going on. I'm sure that other controllers wil add to the things required in the emergency tx that may be specific to their airfield/ac ops etc.
Personally I used to like early use of the 7700 squawk as it lets other units know you have a problem and they will keep out of your way.
Safe flying
Rej
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With regards to the emerg squawk, I seem to remember the teaching (or is it received wisdom?) is that if you are in receipt of an ATC service you retain your squawk unless told to change....??
