Internationally Recoginsed Cold War Gestures

[victor two]

A question for pilots of the cold war era. Having seen amazing pictures of US and British Phantoms and other jets intercepting those massive Tupolev Bears. You were certainly close enough to eyeball each other so can anyone share what that was like, how close you typically flew and best of all, what was the best or most common hand gesture or message held up to a window for the "enjoyment" of the other crew?

regards

Vic

[Argus]

what was the best or most common hand gesture or message held up to a window for the "enjoyment" of the other crew?

The obverse of a two fingered gesture made famous by Sir Winston Churchill.

[rivetjoint]

On the same subject did the aircrews of each side actually feel any hostility between each other or was flying your bomber into UK air space and being intercepted and the opposite for the fighter crews just "another day at the office"?

[BEagle]

When intercepting Bears in the mighty Vickers FunBus, I always took a copy of the Sun calendar with me. The pneumatic Miss Sam Fox against a dark background neatly fitted in the left side window. So we'd find the Bear, pull up alongside perhaps slightly closer than the rules might allow, take the usual photos, then get some formation practice in. The mate in the back would wave, then we'd wave back. Then Samantha would be revealed in the side window in all her glory..............

The effect on the Ivans was electrifying. Beaming faces in leather Ivan hats would appear at every window, beckoning us to move forward so that they could have a closer look. Some fairly widely-recognised gestures of appreciation would be made! On their flight deck it seemed as though about half-a-dozen Ivans had squeezed in to have a glimpse of the fair Miss Fox!

Would have loved to have said something on their frequency - but no doubt some spook would have taped it!

Sam Fox probably never found out how much of a part her parts played in perestroika!

[Argus]

My recollection is that back in the 60s, we were young, considered ourselves to be invincible, and firmly believed that we alone would save our kith and kin from the ravages of the Red hordes.

It thus came as something of a surprise to encounter Soviet aircrew that waved and smiled.

And then I watched Peter Sellars in 'Dr Strangelove'!

[Exmil]

Late 80s and early 90s Bears were generally OK when found and would hold up coke cans for some reason - no hand gestures seen other than a friendly wave. Personally, mask and dark visor was order of the day (daylight of course), no rude hand gestures in my jet as I didn't want to provoke an incident (even if they had just completed a practice missile attack against the UK).

Did have an occasion when one Bear didn't like being photo'd - they turned aggressively into us to prevent a close up stable picture. We turned off the radar and approached from directly beneath the fwd fuselage, popping up between the two port engines and mainplane/tailplane for some very good close ups of a face pressed against the observation blister. Not quite 200' MSD.

[BEagle]

Yes - the Bear Fs were normally rather more 'warry'. Whereas the Bs and Cs on the way back from getting a dose in Cuba were a lot friendlier!

Once stumbled across a couple of Bear Hs in mid-pond and asked the pair of F4 s being trailed if they wanted to nip off for a look-see as we had lots of spare gas. They declined the offer....

[Regie Mental]

I recall being told by an ex-F4 jock that he had one instance where a Bear pilot slowly reduced altitude whilst in formation with his jet in a subtle attempt to fly him into the water. Not sure if true but a good story.

[Gainesy]

I was told by the Bear mates I flew with that waving to NATO a/c etc was frowned upon by the Regt Commissar and could have a detrimental effect in your placing for a new car/telly/fridge.

Interpretor was a bit duff, but I got the impression that when it was done, it was only when they could trust their fellow crew mates not to grass them up to the Political Officer. Nice eh?

[buoy15]

Reggie
Yeh! Had a similar experience Feb 16th 1972 on a LROFE in N Norwegian sea - late afternoon - murkey weather at 2000'
Radar called 2 airbornes closing from the north
At 3 miles flight deck called 2 Bears visual going astern
3 minutes later port beam called Bear at 9 o'clock closing
Captain asked radar if he still held the other ac
"Negative captain - could be in the tail shadow"
Suddenly a strangled shout from the starboard beam " Aircraft about 200 feet above us descending!!"
Captain - "Roger descending to MOA, breaking off right to the south - give us a steer Nav"

Love many, trust a few, always paddle your own canoe!!

[Art Field]

Certainly had occasions in the 10 when shadowing a pair, usually in around 10 mile trail to start with, when the no2 would creep up on you as you formated on the leader and sandwich you between them. They would then slow down and with the K2 in particular you could find yourself close to the buffet with only limited manoeuvrability, very uncomfortable. All this time the lead gunner in his bubble would distract you by waving and showing magazines. When they got fed up with you they would put on power, increase the mighty roar of the engines and out accelerate you. They could also do the opposite, close the throttles and descend very rapidly, making it almost impossible to stay with them. They had no regard for airspace reservation, often flying through airways and NAT tracks and had several near misses with civies. Having said all that, Bear chasing was good sport and we did get pretty close, but only because all too often the F4 had RTB'd with some snag or other you understand.