Desky dramas
Thread Starter
Desky dramas
Hi folks, does anybody, especially the old and bold, have any hints on handling difficult desk officers?
Coming to the end of my first tour, several months past TRD, my desky seems unwilling to speak to me (and no I haven't been badgering him for the past 2 1/2 yrs), originally ignored all my choices citing 'bums on seats requires you to go here', then back tracking, verbally agreeing to send me one place then posting someone else in - without telling me - and then making up some cock and bull story about not being able to contact me to discuss the matter when I was actually in the office all week.
I have done the polite request thing, I have done the being patient thing and got no-where whilst those that have made a first class pain in the arse out of themselves appear to have got what they want. Am I missing a trick, or does my desky just not like me??
Hmmm. Any hints on how to handle this without ending up with a 3 yr unaccompanied jolly to the South Atlantic? Have asked my 1 RO, but he's army and suggested counter-battery fire and 2 / 3 ROs are retiring so are less than concerned.
All suggestions considered - am currently praying for a freak yachting accident!
Coming to the end of my first tour, several months past TRD, my desky seems unwilling to speak to me (and no I haven't been badgering him for the past 2 1/2 yrs), originally ignored all my choices citing 'bums on seats requires you to go here', then back tracking, verbally agreeing to send me one place then posting someone else in - without telling me - and then making up some cock and bull story about not being able to contact me to discuss the matter when I was actually in the office all week.
I have done the polite request thing, I have done the being patient thing and got no-where whilst those that have made a first class pain in the arse out of themselves appear to have got what they want. Am I missing a trick, or does my desky just not like me??
Hmmm. Any hints on how to handle this without ending up with a 3 yr unaccompanied jolly to the South Atlantic? Have asked my 1 RO, but he's army and suggested counter-battery fire and 2 / 3 ROs are retiring so are less than concerned.
All suggestions considered - am currently praying for a freak yachting accident!
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I suspect you have just learned that squeaky wheels get the most oil. The only truly bad deal my desk officer ever stuck to me was challenged at two-star level and his advice to me was that he had done his best but now it was up to me to take it up - he advised caution so I backed off. I discovered later that I got the job because others had not backed off so I learned a valuable lesson. Don't let them s*it on you - fight it all the way - just remain polite and determined.
At the end of the day if you lose it will not be for the want of trying.
At the end of the day if you lose it will not be for the want of trying.
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Whilst a cosy chat may get you what you want to hear, it may not be followed with an appropriate posting notice. I would email him and keep your copy of the email. You then get a case history built up if you have to go over his head and you may even get a response in writing in the form of a returned email. A wise poster will probably read your email and phone you back as then you have no proof whatsoever of any conversation agreements.
After decades of going when and where told, I had finally had enough of being bounced from the four corners of the globe and in response to another shafting I PVR`d (without threat or negotiation). That had the desired effect, but a word of caution on that one, I WAS prepared to follow it through to the end; in fact there is still a big chunk of me that wishes that I had. But there is nothing like getting what you ask for to take the wind out of your sails. Ironically the posting of my choice is not one that I am enjoying, so you cant win them all.
After decades of going when and where told, I had finally had enough of being bounced from the four corners of the globe and in response to another shafting I PVR`d (without threat or negotiation). That had the desired effect, but a word of caution on that one, I WAS prepared to follow it through to the end; in fact there is still a big chunk of me that wishes that I had. But there is nothing like getting what you ask for to take the wind out of your sails. Ironically the posting of my choice is not one that I am enjoying, so you cant win them all.
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I wonder who accredits PMA with IIP? Maybe people should offer a few examples of 'Career Management' to these accreditors.... would be ever so slightly embarassing if PMA lost their coveted plaque!?!
BK
BK
M01 - you wanted the "old and bold" to contribute. I qualify, but have to warn you that the system may not be the same as when I challenged it. I did so by (a) getting my boss, by which I mean Sqn Cdr, on my side and (b) writing a letter which he approved and passed up the chain. I merely stated my intention in non-threatening terms ("more in sorrow than in anger"), to PVR, resign, do whatever I had to to get out if this posting was implemented.
As Spot4 says, I was prepared to follow it through, though. Wife consulted, finances checked, all that stuff.
According to my Boss, the reaction at High Level was "Oh, he means it then, does he?" And then it worked.
Not something to be done lightly or frequently, though.
As Spot4 says, I was prepared to follow it through, though. Wife consulted, finances checked, all that stuff.
According to my Boss, the reaction at High Level was "Oh, he means it then, does he?" And then it worked.
Not something to be done lightly or frequently, though.
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Melchett
As a 1st tourist I suspect you are considered pond-life @ PMA and would be expected to take what you are given for Queen and Country, - Bah! Kicking up a stink at this stage may be considered tantamount to being a pigeon murdered, and think where that got Capt Blackadder!
That said, the 'That's pants and I'm going to PVR route' can work but only if you're prepared to follow it through if they say 'Fine, cheerio.'
Beekeeper
As an 'Old and Bold' now IIP accredited employer, I have to tell you that IIP was one of the easiest accreditations to get - they are, after all, a private organisation and their sales depend on the numbers 'signed up' to be assessed @ £1000 a throw for a small business.
I suspect I'd have to start bumping off my employees before they'd take away the accreditation!
As a 1st tourist I suspect you are considered pond-life @ PMA and would be expected to take what you are given for Queen and Country, - Bah! Kicking up a stink at this stage may be considered tantamount to being a pigeon murdered, and think where that got Capt Blackadder!
That said, the 'That's pants and I'm going to PVR route' can work but only if you're prepared to follow it through if they say 'Fine, cheerio.'
Beekeeper
As an 'Old and Bold' now IIP accredited employer, I have to tell you that IIP was one of the easiest accreditations to get - they are, after all, a private organisation and their sales depend on the numbers 'signed up' to be assessed @ £1000 a throw for a small business.
I suspect I'd have to start bumping off my employees before they'd take away the accreditation!
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If one of the other threads currently running in this forum is to be believed, (Zero PVR Time), then calling PMAs bluff may not be the way ahead!
I have been a firm believer of phoning round the posts you would like to go to, and find out tour TRDs etc. And if you can do a job swap with someone that fits the 'Career Profile', then take the solution to the desky, he/she would find it hard to refuse you crossing two names off their list!
BK
I have been a firm believer of phoning round the posts you would like to go to, and find out tour TRDs etc. And if you can do a job swap with someone that fits the 'Career Profile', then take the solution to the desky, he/she would find it hard to refuse you crossing two names off their list!
BK
Nixor ut Ledo
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My tack was to take whatever the system threw at me. Most postings were greeted with horror but turned out to be brilliant after all. The best posting ever, which I kicked, screamed, got bosses to back me, had interviews - the whole 9 yards - was as a flt cdr at IOT. That was undoubtedly the BEST 2 years or so that I ever had.
The working conditions at MOD (where I also didn't want to go)were the pits but using guile and cunning I managed to get to most places in the world using the thinnest of excuses
The working conditions at MOD (where I also didn't want to go)were the pits but using guile and cunning I managed to get to most places in the world using the thinnest of excuses
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You're probably suffering from the fact that deskys are often too busy to give any serious thought to career management - they just need to put names to posts, and will dream up any reson to justify it to you thereafter.
One technique I have seen work before is for you to present a solution to the desky, thus alleviating him/her of the need to think too deeply about your posting. Tends to work better for digital posts, however, rather than just moving as a (relatively) junior shag between flying posts (assuming that is the position you are in). However, it's worth doing a bit of investigation into potentially vacant slots. Good luck! 
One technique I have seen work before is for you to present a solution to the desky, thus alleviating him/her of the need to think too deeply about your posting. Tends to work better for digital posts, however, rather than just moving as a (relatively) junior shag between flying posts (assuming that is the position you are in). However, it's worth doing a bit of investigation into potentially vacant slots. Good luck!
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Following on from Maintainer's suggestion, a mate of mine was posted (briefly) to E-3D duties, and took great delight at waving his Posting Notice round the office. I had also asked to go, but there was no chance. I stole the mate's PN and photocopied it, then did a bit of jiggery pokery on the office PC, experimenting with fonts, text sizes and layout etc, till I eventually produced a complete electronic copy. I filled in my own details, forged the signature then posted it to myself in the internal mail. Another mate in the office was in on it (he is now the poster!), so when the first mate collected the mail, he delivered the PN to me. Despite some initial doubts (he examined the PN VERY closely but the other mate convinced him it was all genuine), suddenly we were going to be crew mates together! Kept him going for a couple of days anyway, and after the ruse was up, I sent the forgery to the poster with a cover note to the effect that this was what I wanted, and I had even saved her the trouble of producing the PN! She was so impressed with my attempts to get to work at 30,000 ft that I was immediately posted to a secret underground facility somewhere in East Anglia.
You're all really useful Engines!
STH
You're all really useful Engines!
STH
Short Blunt Shock
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Wait 'till your poster visits your station.
Wait untill he gets to the bar.
Slip a roofie in his beer.
Hire a couple of ho's
Take pictures.
Hey presto!
**THIS IS A WORK OF FICTION AND ANY RESEMBLANCE TO GENUINE ADVICE, LIVING OR DEAD, IS ENTIRELY COINCIDENTAL**
Wait untill he gets to the bar.
Slip a roofie in his beer.
Hire a couple of ho's
Take pictures.
Hey presto!
**THIS IS A WORK OF FICTION AND ANY RESEMBLANCE TO GENUINE ADVICE, LIVING OR DEAD, IS ENTIRELY COINCIDENTAL**
When told that, despite my qualifications, the DeskO said that they were planning only some PONTI phone-answering job at some shiney-ar$ed dump like High Wycombe, I told them I would probably be PVR'-ing. "We'll see what we can do" - nothing. So when the PA stream and lack of any compensation for those with < 5 years to go came up, I said "Byeeeeeeeee"......
Pratt with a hat got someone to ask why - so I told them. All Binnsworth said was "Wish I could be out so quickly!".
Anyway - too many sticks, not enough carrots and I didn't like the 'New Labour' face which the air force was developing.... "I hear what you say.......big picture.......mumble, cough..."
Pratt with a hat got someone to ask why - so I told them. All Binnsworth said was "Wish I could be out so quickly!".
Anyway - too many sticks, not enough carrots and I didn't like the 'New Labour' face which the air force was developing.... "I hear what you say.......big picture.......mumble, cough..."
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As end of first tour you will probably have to "take it like a man", especially in the current environment.
In my experience, you will struggle with non-RAF ROs; for some reason PMA seem to ignore anything they say.
I would endorse writing/emailing to desky as well so you have an audit trail of "promises". You can then offer these to desky's boss when he fails to deliver. If you're happy why noy just stay where you are and get another report in before you change management?
As previously suggested, I think offering solutions could be the key. I had an interesting debate on one posting when requesting next job - response was "that job doesn't exist". After replying "yes it does", proceeded to second preference with same result. I got that job through sorting out all of the issues for desky.
You should be able to see all posts and tour end dates for your rank (can you still get these from Gen Office?) and ring up the incumbent to get the gen if ti's something a bit different. Then spread the rumour that you're going there and suggest to desky it's the answer - it worked for me until one tourex I was ignored and offered some really duff jobs (at Gp, Strike etc). A 6-month debate followed, complete with gradually more senior "interviews" (JSP 318 down back of trousers for being so bolshi). Result was a formal letter and me leaving, but that was after 4 sqn flying tours and 2 ground tours.
No one else will manage your career for you, it's up to you to do what you feel is right and make the most of it. Look at it in the long term and make sure that if you don't get what you want this time that at least you make it count towards what you want to achieve in your life (e.g. easy ground tour = lots of sport, fun courses, study or whatever takes your fancy). It's waste of heart beats to throw teddy out of the cot just because you volunteered to join an armed service and it wasn't all perfect. The grass is not always greener on the other side (3 years post-Service experience)
In my experience, you will struggle with non-RAF ROs; for some reason PMA seem to ignore anything they say.
I would endorse writing/emailing to desky as well so you have an audit trail of "promises". You can then offer these to desky's boss when he fails to deliver. If you're happy why noy just stay where you are and get another report in before you change management?
As previously suggested, I think offering solutions could be the key. I had an interesting debate on one posting when requesting next job - response was "that job doesn't exist". After replying "yes it does", proceeded to second preference with same result. I got that job through sorting out all of the issues for desky.
You should be able to see all posts and tour end dates for your rank (can you still get these from Gen Office?) and ring up the incumbent to get the gen if ti's something a bit different. Then spread the rumour that you're going there and suggest to desky it's the answer - it worked for me until one tourex I was ignored and offered some really duff jobs (at Gp, Strike etc). A 6-month debate followed, complete with gradually more senior "interviews" (JSP 318 down back of trousers for being so bolshi). Result was a formal letter and me leaving, but that was after 4 sqn flying tours and 2 ground tours.
No one else will manage your career for you, it's up to you to do what you feel is right and make the most of it. Look at it in the long term and make sure that if you don't get what you want this time that at least you make it count towards what you want to achieve in your life (e.g. easy ground tour = lots of sport, fun courses, study or whatever takes your fancy). It's waste of heart beats to throw teddy out of the cot just because you volunteered to join an armed service and it wasn't all perfect. The grass is not always greener on the other side (3 years post-Service experience)
L'enfant Terrible
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I'm currently going through the (somewhat convoluted in my case) discharge procedure.
I'd only echo the advice of others in this thread with regard to a PVR. You could be playing into someone's hands, especially with the manpower cuts now underway.
What I have found through my current wranglings though, is that there are always ways and means of circumventing a tricky desky if you talk to the right people at PMA, but be prepared for the fallout. Plenty of which I'm catching right now!
I'd only echo the advice of others in this thread with regard to a PVR. You could be playing into someone's hands, especially with the manpower cuts now underway.
What I have found through my current wranglings though, is that there are always ways and means of circumventing a tricky desky if you talk to the right people at PMA, but be prepared for the fallout. Plenty of which I'm catching right now!
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Availability of post TRDs
Following on from Exmil's post, the RAF Appointments list has been available on the RAF Intranet for some time. For anyone who doesn't know where to look (I stress you need INTRAnet access), point your browser at this URL:
http://www.publications.raf.r.mil.uk...asp?DocIDNo=33
Oh, and if Exmil or anyone else can tell me where to find an 'easy ground tour' these days, I'd be grateful!
http://www.publications.raf.r.mil.uk...asp?DocIDNo=33
Oh, and if Exmil or anyone else can tell me where to find an 'easy ground tour' these days, I'd be grateful!
Last edited by The Maintainer; 9th Sep 2004 at 15:28.
Maintainer,
You're an engineer - ain't no such thing as an "easy" tour - but there are fun ones (in fact, I've always found the harder tours tend to be the most fun)
You're an engineer - ain't no such thing as an "easy" tour - but there are fun ones (in fact, I've always found the harder tours tend to be the most fun)
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice guys - much appreciated.
I'm not quite at the stage of wanting to PVR - in spite of doing more and more with less and less, political incompetence and PMA lunacy, I love my job and am not prepared to give in that easily!
But there appear to be more twists than a Hitchcock plot in hte saga that is myposting. All I will say is the game is still wide open and there has been an admission of a misunderstanding somewhere in the chain, and my desky is now actually talking - what was it we used to get from Bob Hoskins - it's good to talk. It's all very annoying really as the job I was going for was a new one so wasn't part of a chain so it should have been fairly simple to decide as the start date and my tour end date were less than a week apart, and the gainining unit had agreed to pay for me if I was required to be overborne.
Anyway, I did take up some of your suggestions - emailing the desky etc and will remember that trick for the future. Also started being a bit more of a pain - didn't think I had much to lose and it appears to be working. Hope it's not going to be like this every time I get posted.
So once again - thanks for the advice guys.
I'm not quite at the stage of wanting to PVR - in spite of doing more and more with less and less, political incompetence and PMA lunacy, I love my job and am not prepared to give in that easily!
But there appear to be more twists than a Hitchcock plot in hte saga that is myposting. All I will say is the game is still wide open and there has been an admission of a misunderstanding somewhere in the chain, and my desky is now actually talking - what was it we used to get from Bob Hoskins - it's good to talk. It's all very annoying really as the job I was going for was a new one so wasn't part of a chain so it should have been fairly simple to decide as the start date and my tour end date were less than a week apart, and the gainining unit had agreed to pay for me if I was required to be overborne.
Anyway, I did take up some of your suggestions - emailing the desky etc and will remember that trick for the future. Also started being a bit more of a pain - didn't think I had much to lose and it appears to be working. Hope it's not going to be like this every time I get posted.
So once again - thanks for the advice guys.
Last edited by Melchett01; 11th Sep 2004 at 20:47.
Totally agree with the other guys, your best bet is just to present the desky with a solution. I think they've also got jobs list on SAMA as well with TRDs on it. Look at that, phone the person doing the job now just to confirm what his understanding is of TRDs etc. Then phone the desky. I'd like this job here, I've spoken to Joe Bloggs who's doing it now who's leaving in x months time. I can do this job because........ Post me now!! Works everytime. Manage your own career, makes desky's job easier and that way you'll win browny points off them!