Sea King (CR)
I'm with Jockspice here..most know my background, so I think I am in a fair position to compare Crab with Jungly here......Crab@Somewheresounding pongo-ish......the RN aren't the only ones to do some silly things in NI...I remember a very important Helo asset being run out of fuel and shutting down south of the border, thinking it was Newry, when in fact it was Dundalk....several Banner Pumas going international through the Monaghan Salient...etc, etc. I was met by the then boss (ex CH47 man) of a twin engine trg unit some years ago who remarked...'Hey *****, are you flying with those Cowboys? What a bunch of unprofessional W***ers they are..can't find their arses or elbows'..pointing at 2 Mk4's on the Pan at Strawberry, I thought I might try and explain the error of his ways, but realised quickly that I would be wasting my valuable time, he was obviously an Arse, and pissing in his coffee cup would be a better option.....but did I do it?...you'll have to wait for my memoirs for that one.
The RN boys had a good rep in NI, because at that time their rules allowed them more flex to work in crappy wx and they had a Cab that could lift up to 26 peeps at a time, and still fly for 30 mins. These facets engendered a positive and rewarding rapport with the Unit Co's who knew they could rely on the 'Dark Blue' to move more in worse wx, hence they asked for the Mighty King more often. The Boys in Dark Blue were a 'can do' mob, no more so than we Crabs were, but they had more flex in those days. The Yeov's FOB had a preface from the FONA which basically said 'Here's some guidelines to get the task done, if you break 'em to complete the task, have a good reason for doing it and I'll back you up' Can't say fairer than that. At that time we (Crabs) had more of a blame culture than I hope we do today....rule infrigements were dealt with quite severely, and so few were apt to bend them to get the job done, safely
I've been out of the game for a while, but I hope the above provides a balanced arguement.........Can we now stop Crab/Pongo/Fish'ed bashing?
Hey HPT..you won't get that 3 stripe that way!!!!!
ps..any granma, spooling or syntex errors are velly mich Weißen induced!!!
The RN boys had a good rep in NI, because at that time their rules allowed them more flex to work in crappy wx and they had a Cab that could lift up to 26 peeps at a time, and still fly for 30 mins. These facets engendered a positive and rewarding rapport with the Unit Co's who knew they could rely on the 'Dark Blue' to move more in worse wx, hence they asked for the Mighty King more often. The Boys in Dark Blue were a 'can do' mob, no more so than we Crabs were, but they had more flex in those days. The Yeov's FOB had a preface from the FONA which basically said 'Here's some guidelines to get the task done, if you break 'em to complete the task, have a good reason for doing it and I'll back you up' Can't say fairer than that. At that time we (Crabs) had more of a blame culture than I hope we do today....rule infrigements were dealt with quite severely, and so few were apt to bend them to get the job done, safely
I've been out of the game for a while, but I hope the above provides a balanced arguement.........Can we now stop Crab/Pongo/Fish'ed bashing?
Hey HPT..you won't get that 3 stripe that way!!!!!
ps..any granma, spooling or syntex errors are velly mich Weißen induced!!!
Last edited by Hueymeister; 6th Sep 2004 at 20:50.
Hydraulic Palm Tree,
"PS. Pr00ne - I am convinced that you are either CAS or CinC STC, as you seem to know **** all about helicopters, particularly those of the RAF."
Tee Hee, like it!
All I ever flew in HMFC was the DHC1, JP3/4, Gnat, Hunter (Stude and Inst), and F-4M on Sqn.
Never did understand whirly things...........................
CAS, nah, I couldn't take the pay cut.
"PS. Pr00ne - I am convinced that you are either CAS or CinC STC, as you seem to know **** all about helicopters, particularly those of the RAF."
Tee Hee, like it!
All I ever flew in HMFC was the DHC1, JP3/4, Gnat, Hunter (Stude and Inst), and F-4M on Sqn.
Never did understand whirly things...........................
CAS, nah, I couldn't take the pay cut.
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always easy to slag to UDR I didn't see to many of the crabs spending their whole careers in provance living outside the wire and being under threat 24/7. Look at the casualty figures!!!!
And if they were so poor why was sein fein always so keen to get them disbanded?
And if they were so poor why was sein fein always so keen to get them disbanded?
Nurse,
"And if they were so poor why was sein fein always so keen to get them disbanded?
Maybe because in their eyes UDR = UVF?
"And if they were so poor why was sein fein always so keen to get them disbanded?
Maybe because in their eyes UDR = UVF?
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Which is the same for all the security forces colusion wasn't only a UDR problem they said the same of the RUC and would you say they were unprofessional or the regular army?
The comments the UDR made about the behaviour of the regular armed forces and their alledged professionalism are broadly similar to those that have been expressed here about them.
Or was it the UDR were actually quite effective in not allowing the IRA free reign?
Or was it just they were mainly protestants who were armed and therefore could fight back when attacked?
The comments the UDR made about the behaviour of the regular armed forces and their alledged professionalism are broadly similar to those that have been expressed here about them.
Or was it the UDR were actually quite effective in not allowing the IRA free reign?
Or was it just they were mainly protestants who were armed and therefore could fight back when attacked?
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Just got back from a fun trip in the old SK 50 lifting landrovers to a place called Bamaga (to right pointy bit of Oz) well inside the tropics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes we were limited but 'got the job done' and had a fun time! As well the Sk are going to be going for a while here as well and they've got their fare share of cracks etc. while we wait for a replacement and surprise, surprise they're not looking at Chinook!!!! (But then I've got a soft spot for the old girl!!) Or anything for that matter!
On one point mentioned earlier though as an aside:
InTgreen
The reliability is not what it once was, and the change in the FRC's so as circuit breakers can now no longer be reset, for fear of it causing a fire, are, quite frankly, shocking.
A bit of a concern does anyone have any details of why??? We're a long way from Westlands here and the pigeons get tired easily, probably shot for food in some 3rd world country so we've not got the important message!!
Any info gratefully accepted
H.P.
Yes we were limited but 'got the job done' and had a fun time! As well the Sk are going to be going for a while here as well and they've got their fare share of cracks etc. while we wait for a replacement and surprise, surprise they're not looking at Chinook!!!! (But then I've got a soft spot for the old girl!!) Or anything for that matter!
On one point mentioned earlier though as an aside:
InTgreen
The reliability is not what it once was, and the change in the FRC's so as circuit breakers can now no longer be reset, for fear of it causing a fire, are, quite frankly, shocking.
A bit of a concern does anyone have any details of why??? We're a long way from Westlands here and the pigeons get tired easily, probably shot for food in some 3rd world country so we've not got the important message!!
Any info gratefully accepted
H.P.
NURSE - I wasn't commenting on the political/religious persuasion- as soldiers they were frequently late, in the wrong place, left everything from weapons to ammunition on the aircraft, happily patrolled outside their EW screen, never seemed to be wet when they had been out all day in NI sunshine, were very insecure on the radio and overall just didn't impress.
42 Cdo were by far the best troops I worked with in 2 years there with the Paras (can't remember which Btn) a close second.
Hueymeister - I didn't say the RAF never got things wrong - if you didn't go over the border you weren't trying hard enough. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes (Puma at Dundalk) some more high profile than others - my point was that going out in all weather is OK providing you are doing it for a good reason and not just to deliver the mail/bread/eggs.
42 Cdo were by far the best troops I worked with in 2 years there with the Paras (can't remember which Btn) a close second.
Hueymeister - I didn't say the RAF never got things wrong - if you didn't go over the border you weren't trying hard enough. Everyone gets it wrong sometimes (Puma at Dundalk) some more high profile than others - my point was that going out in all weather is OK providing you are doing it for a good reason and not just to deliver the mail/bread/eggs.
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All this Sea King vs Chin-hook rivalry reminds me of the fastest helo debate. One venerable CH driver was heard to say how his chopper could go as fast as the Lynx (Still the fastest chopper!) without any mods - true, but it still can't outrun said Lynx's main armament - the Battle proven TOW Mach 1 missile (Alright, just less than), and I had much fun tracking said large and very vulnerable CH targets! TeeHee!!
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[email protected] so have many regular army units done exactly the same things including the Paras!
The reputation was always thet the Navy and AAC got the job done and provided the support they were expected to in an operational enviroment. Whilst the RAF hid behind rules that SHOULD have been left on the mainland for non operational flying and unfortunatley similar things have been said about many op theatres with the RAF are getting the reputation for wanting to get the medals without having done the work.
Maybe before the rules are written the people devloping them should have to experience some of the ramifications of them first hand ? EG them having to accompany army patrols in real ops in inclement weather instead of sitting in warm offices thinking up ways of keeping aircraft on the ground and pilots in the bar.
BTW read through what you said about the UDR and think about it because i find it highly insulting. Escically having stood at to many gravesides!
The reputation was always thet the Navy and AAC got the job done and provided the support they were expected to in an operational enviroment. Whilst the RAF hid behind rules that SHOULD have been left on the mainland for non operational flying and unfortunatley similar things have been said about many op theatres with the RAF are getting the reputation for wanting to get the medals without having done the work.
Maybe before the rules are written the people devloping them should have to experience some of the ramifications of them first hand ? EG them having to accompany army patrols in real ops in inclement weather instead of sitting in warm offices thinking up ways of keeping aircraft on the ground and pilots in the bar.
BTW read through what you said about the UDR and think about it because i find it highly insulting. Escically having stood at to many gravesides!
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Harry P, I think the circuit breaker thing was to do with Kapton wiring that may or may not be in the aircraft. It featured in a 'Cockpit' article last year after a jungly loom caught fire. I'd get your engineers to check the wiring spec down there if I was you!
NURSE - I stand by what I said about the UDR being unprofessional troops - do you think it might be connected with why you have stood by so many gravesides?
You keep getting your knickers in a twist about NI being an operational theatre requiring special (or no) rules - there is nothing like the threat in NI that there was and even then people confused SH ash and trash missions with 'warfighting' and put themselves in positions that didn't justify the risks. Our rules are our rules but when the AAC or RN can operate like the Chinook SF then you can start banging on about how great you are - where were they in GW1 f'rinstance?
You keep getting your knickers in a twist about NI being an operational theatre requiring special (or no) rules - there is nothing like the threat in NI that there was and even then people confused SH ash and trash missions with 'warfighting' and put themselves in positions that didn't justify the risks. Our rules are our rules but when the AAC or RN can operate like the Chinook SF then you can start banging on about how great you are - where were they in GW1 f'rinstance?
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seam to remember the flightline at Basrah had more SK hc4 than Pumas during my tour and yep there was Chinook there. And plenty of Lynxes and Gazelles.
And in response to your question most were murdered off duty 1 infront of his kids. Cause my mates lived in The community not inside guarded perimiters.
And in response to your question most were murdered off duty 1 infront of his kids. Cause my mates lived in The community not inside guarded perimiters.
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Can anyone tell me how many cabs have been converted to the "new" Mk 6(CR)? The Navy News article mentions five aircraft, but I would appreciate confirmation of this from those in the know.
Serial numbers would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Chairborne 09.00hrs
Serial numbers would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Chairborne 09.00hrs
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Sea King HAS Mk 6 CR
Chairborne
5 aircraft were converted.
The first by the Mobile Aircraft Support Unit (MASU), a team of RN Senior Rates and Civil Service Designers.
After this two each by Serco Aerospace at Yeovilton and DARA Fleetlands.
XV700 XV703 XZ922 XZ580 XV676
Any further questions let me know.
Strek
5 aircraft were converted.
The first by the Mobile Aircraft Support Unit (MASU), a team of RN Senior Rates and Civil Service Designers.
After this two each by Serco Aerospace at Yeovilton and DARA Fleetlands.
XV700 XV703 XZ922 XZ580 XV676
Any further questions let me know.
Strek
No one has mentioned the fact that you can't fold a Chinook and when it goes T*** it blacks most of the deck. SK goes T*** you put it in the hangar and get another one out.
Had a very interesting conversation with some pongoes last week about being left to trek half way across Armagh.
Chinook....bl**** good aircraft when it works and complements the flexibility that the SK brings. A place for them both.
Oh and don't forget about the Salaries it takes to fly each!
Respect to you both!
Had a very interesting conversation with some pongoes last week about being left to trek half way across Armagh.
Chinook....bl**** good aircraft when it works and complements the flexibility that the SK brings. A place for them both.
Oh and don't forget about the Salaries it takes to fly each!
Respect to you both!
Last edited by Widger; 13th May 2005 at 17:58.
