Defence Cuts latest
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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AD definitely not flavour of the moment
The Treasury guys have a duty to look after our cash after all.
Plus when nobody has had smallpox for x decades you don't spend money on inoculations any more...do you?
I think I will go for a paddle, my feet are getting hot again. (Sorry only my mates will understand that)
Please will somebody come and lead me back to my ward. I have tried Blackbushe and its not there.
And not wishing to depress those who were hoping to become FJ pilots (and Nav... sorry, WSOs) - re: the threads of a few weeks back about Linton:
So I think we can guess that, unless Two Jags kicks up a very large fuss indeed, the Hawk 128 order will be chopped substantially as well. Makes all the remarks about how 'good' things were for defence and that to claim that there were 'defence cuts' was all rather silly.
...When standing quick reaction alert tasks are taken into account this translates into a front line force of 55 crews, compared to about 80 crews at present. This will allow the disbandment of XI(F) Tornado F3 squadron in October
2.22 The overall reduction in the number of fast jet aircrew required will reduce requirements for fast jet training and the number of training aircraft. We remain committed to the procurement of the Hawk 128. Final numbers, beyond the initial 20, will be determined over the next year.
2.22 The overall reduction in the number of fast jet aircrew required will reduce requirements for fast jet training and the number of training aircraft. We remain committed to the procurement of the Hawk 128. Final numbers, beyond the initial 20, will be determined over the next year.
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Leeming..(no, not her!)
....the reduced requirement for Air Defence squadrons will permit Tornado operations at RAF Leeming to cease from 2008
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I see Keetch mentioned the dreaded word Manning Control and redundancies again funny how Hoon would not mention it when asked specifically
more examples of servicemen & women being stabbed in the back
more examples of servicemen & women being stabbed in the back
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Side show Bob - thanks for the correction - next time i'll do my homework as I have done for RN!
A bit off topic but defence related...
5 of 6 minesweepers to go are from faslane - invalidates the existance of MCM 3 therefore - no surface fleet north of the border???
A bit off topic but defence related...
5 of 6 minesweepers to go are from faslane - invalidates the existance of MCM 3 therefore - no surface fleet north of the border???
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We're Famous!
Nice to see the Telegraph mentioning this website when asking CDS if the Chiefs are standing up to the politicians enough, at the Press Conference this afternoon. Would writing to your MP get that much publicity for a complaint? I doubt it.
BCH
BCH
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we will need a targeted redundancy scheme. The details, once agreed with Ministers and the Treasury, will be announced towards the end of the year.
Techies, Admin and RAF Regt will be the main takers.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Archimedes said 5 AD sqns the minimum.
43 111 56 17 29 ?
With the reduction from 18 MR2 to 12ish MR4 they could all go to Waddo in 2010 onwards.
With the SK OCU going to Valley why not put the Hawk 128 there too?
The rocks will be at 63% of their 1990 level compared with the RAF at only 45%. Good news for the rocks unless they are well above their 1990 level right now <g>
43 111 56 17 29 ?
With the reduction from 18 MR2 to 12ish MR4 they could all go to Waddo in 2010 onwards.
With the SK OCU going to Valley why not put the Hawk 128 there too?
The rocks will be at 63% of their 1990 level compared with the RAF at only 45%. Good news for the rocks unless they are well above their 1990 level right now <g>
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6 Sqn (or whoever) to go to Coningsby for their last year-ish.
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So....
We need reductions in manpower but we don't know how many redundancies there will need to be and even what trades they will be in!
We are buying C-17s....after we have leased them...why didn't we buy them in the first place?!?
"Network Enabled Capablilty is a relatively new concept" No s
t Sherlock! I've worked with what can be termed NEC in my time and have attended some high-level meetings and no-one at a senior level has a clue what this is! What I can point out is a network is only as good as the data that goes into it. And the MR2, MRA4, T42 and T23 either are, or have the potential to be, excellent sensor platforms. NEC should be a force multiplier, not a force replacement! Targeting etc is all very well, but the temporary nature of air power is no substiture for boots (or a ship) on the ground (or water)!!
I need to read further, and to peruse the debate, but first glance indicates firmly that this is a short-sighted, cost-driven, back-of-a-fag-packet piece of nonsense that will degrade the operational efficiency of our Armed Forces and is no way to repay the months and years of hard work we have put in. The only way our creaking services have managed is by personnel putting in extra effort and "playing the game". For the sake of us all that has to stop and we must put our hands up and say "we can't do that" when we are short of personnel or equipment - although it may now be too late!
We need reductions in manpower but we don't know how many redundancies there will need to be and even what trades they will be in!
We are buying C-17s....after we have leased them...why didn't we buy them in the first place?!?
"Network Enabled Capablilty is a relatively new concept" No s
t Sherlock! I've worked with what can be termed NEC in my time and have attended some high-level meetings and no-one at a senior level has a clue what this is! What I can point out is a network is only as good as the data that goes into it. And the MR2, MRA4, T42 and T23 either are, or have the potential to be, excellent sensor platforms. NEC should be a force multiplier, not a force replacement! Targeting etc is all very well, but the temporary nature of air power is no substiture for boots (or a ship) on the ground (or water)!!I need to read further, and to peruse the debate, but first glance indicates firmly that this is a short-sighted, cost-driven, back-of-a-fag-packet piece of nonsense that will degrade the operational efficiency of our Armed Forces and is no way to repay the months and years of hard work we have put in. The only way our creaking services have managed is by personnel putting in extra effort and "playing the game". For the sake of us all that has to stop and we must put our hands up and say "we can't do that" when we are short of personnel or equipment - although it may now be too late!
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why not pull out of iraq and afgan and let the yanks sort thier own problems. with the money saved we could build up some pretty good home security and defence. this can only be done when tony blair emerges from hid hide out some where up the bush pass.
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If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks chances are it's a duck !! This is not a 'realignment' or an adjustment - it is a defence cut to save money.
If defence spending is rising in ‘real terms’ why are we being told to institute 2.5% year-on-year 'efficiency savings'? BTW, when next year comes around and we are at 97.5% won't the 2.5% of that figure be proportionately more and increase proportionally for the duration of the ‘efficiency’ drive.
I note that the treasury has ‘provided funding for the Iraq operation’. Really? - then why have we been told that flying hours in the Gulf are to be counted in the annual total as, quote, ‘the treasury has refused to accept this as a cost of the operation’ end quote.
Another point on basic maths: The total strength of the RAF is currently 48000 because we can't (or won't) recruit to our actual limit total of 52200. Based on that figure, the RAF will be cut by 11200 personnel not the oft quoted 8000.
Rant over, sadness descending
If defence spending is rising in ‘real terms’ why are we being told to institute 2.5% year-on-year 'efficiency savings'? BTW, when next year comes around and we are at 97.5% won't the 2.5% of that figure be proportionately more and increase proportionally for the duration of the ‘efficiency’ drive.
I note that the treasury has ‘provided funding for the Iraq operation’. Really? - then why have we been told that flying hours in the Gulf are to be counted in the annual total as, quote, ‘the treasury has refused to accept this as a cost of the operation’ end quote.
Another point on basic maths: The total strength of the RAF is currently 48000 because we can't (or won't) recruit to our actual limit total of 52200. Based on that figure, the RAF will be cut by 11200 personnel not the oft quoted 8000.
Rant over, sadness descending
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It would appear that under this government, in addition to not being able to get a GP appointment for over a week, not being able to find NHS dental treatment at all and not being able to get a policeman to attend a traffic accident, I will now be able to enjoy my retirement knowing that our armed forces are too depleted to do much more than a Queen's Birthday flypast and the odd airshow.
Thankyou Bliar.
Thankyou Bliar.
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Jess
Have a look at the House of Commons Defence Committee report into the Defence White Paper 2003, the rag that precipitated this particular round of rationalisation. You may find it illuminating reading........ It can be found on the MOD web via Chots if you have access.
To paraphrase for all though, the committee, which is predominantly Labour, cautioned against the very cuts that have been announced today until Effects based operations and NEC are understood. The MPs themselves noted that there was an undue haste to sell the family silver in the name of a concept that is not yet understood on either side of the pond.
Ho hum, the government even ignore their own sort, so what chance do we have........
Rgds
Oh Yes, and I forgot. You will have noticed that some of the FRIs have been dispensed with today as well. No surprises there then.
Q. What do we have too many of in the RAF ?
A. Senior Officer aircrew according to DASA stats.
Does rather suggest that senior officer ME Navigators are on the hit list.....
Have a look at the House of Commons Defence Committee report into the Defence White Paper 2003, the rag that precipitated this particular round of rationalisation. You may find it illuminating reading........ It can be found on the MOD web via Chots if you have access.
To paraphrase for all though, the committee, which is predominantly Labour, cautioned against the very cuts that have been announced today until Effects based operations and NEC are understood. The MPs themselves noted that there was an undue haste to sell the family silver in the name of a concept that is not yet understood on either side of the pond.
Ho hum, the government even ignore their own sort, so what chance do we have........
Rgds
Oh Yes, and I forgot. You will have noticed that some of the FRIs have been dispensed with today as well. No surprises there then.
Q. What do we have too many of in the RAF ?
A. Senior Officer aircrew according to DASA stats.
Does rather suggest that senior officer ME Navigators are on the hit list.....
In Tor Wot,
The efficiency savings are to be ploughed back into Defence, the money doesn’t go to the treasury, or anywhere else, it stays within the defence budget.
I think you’ll find that the difference in your RAF manpower figures is because 48500 is the trained and operational figure, it is 400 lower than it should be at 48900. The 52500 figure you quote is the total including those in training.
Soddim,
I think you’ll find the blame for the current Dentistry issue lies with the Tories and what they did to the profession when they were in power.
I can get a GP appointment within 24 hours where I live, and there are asylum seekers nearby!
The efficiency savings are to be ploughed back into Defence, the money doesn’t go to the treasury, or anywhere else, it stays within the defence budget.
I think you’ll find that the difference in your RAF manpower figures is because 48500 is the trained and operational figure, it is 400 lower than it should be at 48900. The 52500 figure you quote is the total including those in training.
Soddim,
I think you’ll find the blame for the current Dentistry issue lies with the Tories and what they did to the profession when they were in power.
I can get a GP appointment within 24 hours where I live, and there are asylum seekers nearby!
prOOne - are you sure you're not 'Comical Ali', the late Iraqi defence spokesman?
Your assertions convince an audience of but one. Yourself.
Now do back to your day job.
Your assertions convince an audience of but one. Yourself.
Now do
back to your day job.
OLD RED DAMASK
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I don't know whether or not it's my (Mis ?) interpretation of reading the review or what.BUT if you read the final totals in "Determining the force structure" IMHO I have made the following conclusions.
Helicopters:- 115 Support,these consist of 37 Chinook,18 Merlin,31 Puma and 29 Sea King.
48 Attack presumably the new Apache fleet.
Anyone want to tell me where all the Gazelles and Lynx from the AAC have gone to??
Someone in another thread presumed all 232 Typhoons were safe. Hoon stated he will only sign up for the 2nd tranche if the price is right after negotiations with BAe.
Totals given say Air Defence 20 and Offensive Support aircraft 64.
Finally he says that the current fleet of C130's will be replaced by the A400M in 2011(I thought that option had been scrapped) but again he won't say how many.
Excuse me if my presumptions are wrong but I think the way the report has been worded means we have all had the wool pulled over our eyes and the Air element of H.M. Forces has been hung drawn and quartered.
Helicopters:- 115 Support,these consist of 37 Chinook,18 Merlin,31 Puma and 29 Sea King.
48 Attack presumably the new Apache fleet.
Anyone want to tell me where all the Gazelles and Lynx from the AAC have gone to??
Someone in another thread presumed all 232 Typhoons were safe. Hoon stated he will only sign up for the 2nd tranche if the price is right after negotiations with BAe.
Totals given say Air Defence 20 and Offensive Support aircraft 64.
Finally he says that the current fleet of C130's will be replaced by the A400M in 2011(I thought that option had been scrapped) but again he won't say how many.
Excuse me if my presumptions are wrong but I think the way the report has been worded means we have all had the wool pulled over our eyes and the Air element of H.M. Forces has been hung drawn and quartered.