Military Job cuts AGAIN
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We will find out that-which-has-already-been-decided on Wed 21, shortly after Parliament have been told, from the command chain in many cases with tailor-made briefs that have probably been sent out under embargo already.
Three-line whips all round on Wed aftenoon - don't arrange any sports or book any Stn briefing facilities!!!
Three-line whips all round on Wed aftenoon - don't arrange any sports or book any Stn briefing facilities!!!
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The 21st will be the date that we really find out what's going to happen. However, as it will be very similar to a lot of the recurrent rumours it will be no surprise to many. The biggest issue in my view is the fact that the Secretary of State, in a not very honerable way, is going to announce the cuts to the armed forces the day before the summer recess starts allowing no debate or questioning.
That action displays a complete contempt for both democracy and open government. It stinks of both cowadice, a capital offence in the forces not so long ago, and ineptitude on a grand scale. I'm glad we fought for the Iraqis to have a chance at open and free government, maybe we will have that chance too soon.
I hope that all those members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces who have worked hard, especially over the last 18 months, will stand up and protest at the cuts that will be announced on wednesday.
That action displays a complete contempt for both democracy and open government. It stinks of both cowadice, a capital offence in the forces not so long ago, and ineptitude on a grand scale. I'm glad we fought for the Iraqis to have a chance at open and free government, maybe we will have that chance too soon.
I hope that all those members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces who have worked hard, especially over the last 18 months, will stand up and protest at the cuts that will be announced on wednesday.
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"all members of HM Forces...stand up and protest..."
Oh really, and how do you propose we do that? Protests outside handbrake house, petitions, a mass march on Whitehall? Nobody is happy with cutbacks but we're military personnel, not a union-led rabble. The battles in MOD have already been fought and lost/won - just wait for the final results like professionals. Or have I taken the bait.....?
Oh really, and how do you propose we do that? Protests outside handbrake house, petitions, a mass march on Whitehall? Nobody is happy with cutbacks but we're military personnel, not a union-led rabble. The battles in MOD have already been fought and lost/won - just wait for the final results like professionals. Or have I taken the bait.....?
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Cranwell AND Dartmouth to close?
Dartmouth college faces axe
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 19/07/2004)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ixportal.html
The Royal Navy's historic officer training base at Dartmouth faces closure as part of a wave of heavy defence cuts.
The move is bound to provoke fierce criticism. Previous students at the 140-year-old base include Prince Philip, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York.
The RAF's officer training base at Cranwell, Lincs, set up in 1920, will also close.
The Army will keep its officer training college at Sandhurst but all Royal Navy and RAF officer training will move to the Joint Services Command and Staff College at Shrivenham, Wilts.
The present Dartmouth college was built in 1905 on land owned by the estate of Sir Walter Raleigh. Before that officers were trained on the wooden ship Britannia moored on the river Dart.
The cuts are part of Ministry of Defence plans to save billions of pounds, as demanded by the Treasury. Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, will announce them on Wednesday, the day before the Commons rises for the summer recess. The timing has been chosen to reduce the amount of time MPs have to debate them.
Mr Hoon will provide no details and will try to explain away the cuts by saying that they form part of a "re-balancing" of the Armed Forces to meet the needs of the 21st century.
He will not be fondly remembered by anybody!
Dartmouth college faces axe
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 19/07/2004)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ixportal.html
The Royal Navy's historic officer training base at Dartmouth faces closure as part of a wave of heavy defence cuts.
The move is bound to provoke fierce criticism. Previous students at the 140-year-old base include Prince Philip, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York.
The RAF's officer training base at Cranwell, Lincs, set up in 1920, will also close.
The Army will keep its officer training college at Sandhurst but all Royal Navy and RAF officer training will move to the Joint Services Command and Staff College at Shrivenham, Wilts.
The present Dartmouth college was built in 1905 on land owned by the estate of Sir Walter Raleigh. Before that officers were trained on the wooden ship Britannia moored on the river Dart.
The cuts are part of Ministry of Defence plans to save billions of pounds, as demanded by the Treasury. Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, will announce them on Wednesday, the day before the Commons rises for the summer recess. The timing has been chosen to reduce the amount of time MPs have to debate them.
Mr Hoon will provide no details and will try to explain away the cuts by saying that they form part of a "re-balancing" of the Armed Forces to meet the needs of the 21st century.
He will not be fondly remembered by anybody!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
And there may be more cuts on the way to fund the Typhoon. If these reports are correct then Eurofighter costs may go up by another $2.5 billion...and the UK may be sued to foot the bill. Eurofighter Faces 2 Billion Euros in Extra Costs on Production.
FT.
FT.
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Cutbacks!
I was requested earlier this year to cut 5% off my budget in the STP, one month later lovely purple balloons on sticks were introduced by the management board with the words 'Thank You' on them. These could be accompanied by a nice purple Thank You card, if someone had made your job easier that day.
Nice to know that my staff training budget went to such a worthy project!
TheBeeKeeper
(DH 82B)
I was requested earlier this year to cut 5% off my budget in the STP, one month later lovely purple balloons on sticks were introduced by the management board with the words 'Thank You' on them. These could be accompanied by a nice purple Thank You card, if someone had made your job easier that day.
Nice to know that my staff training budget went to such a worthy project!
TheBeeKeeper
(DH 82B)
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Will there be any post-cuts letters in the Times or Telegraph from among our ranks signed with our names in full glory? And, if so, what is the going rate for this "unauthorised contact with the media"? I reckon it would be administrative action and a nasty letter or interview without coffee.
Not that it would do any good but this New Labour shower only care about "positive" corporate comms so at least this might make correspondents feel good!
Not that it would do any good but this New Labour shower only care about "positive" corporate comms so at least this might make correspondents feel good!
I'd suggest that if you want to make some "unauthorised contact with the media" then doing it via PM might work. The thing we so often lack is the insider's perspective on the significance and repercussions of politician's proposed actions.
I'm not fishing......
Much!
I'm not fishing......
Much!
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It's too nice a morning to lie in bed....
One thing that did occur to me was that we cannot express displeasure except by two routes. One is to initiate a redress via QR 1000 and the other is to petition the Sovereign. An interesting hypothetical situation would arise if a mass QR 1000 redress was initiated, asking COs to bring the concerns of the complainant to the Defence Council. And, if coincidentally, a series of parliamentary questions attempted to elicit information regarding any redresses on the basis of defence cuts. The answer would probably be "information not held centrally..disproportionate cost" however! Best thing about it - nobody would be doing anything wrong !!!
One thing that did occur to me was that we cannot express displeasure except by two routes. One is to initiate a redress via QR 1000 and the other is to petition the Sovereign. An interesting hypothetical situation would arise if a mass QR 1000 redress was initiated, asking COs to bring the concerns of the complainant to the Defence Council. And, if coincidentally, a series of parliamentary questions attempted to elicit information regarding any redresses on the basis of defence cuts. The answer would probably be "information not held centrally..disproportionate cost" however! Best thing about it - nobody would be doing anything wrong !!!
Jacko - I wouldn't suggest that, mate. 'Sources' indicate that the Firm's Plod is snuffling about trying to establish the identities of more controversial posters (I note that one VSO has recently stopped posting), so suggesting that 'unauthorised' contacts with the media could be conducted in such a way is not a good idea.
Unlike the rest of the human race which enjoys the protection of the law of the land, Treat of Rome etc, the military still has various internal kangaroo court processes to hang people out to dry of which you are probably not aware. So inciting people currently serving to leak information to journos is not on, I'm afraid.
Unlike the rest of the human race which enjoys the protection of the law of the land, Treat of Rome etc, the military still has various internal kangaroo court processes to hang people out to dry of which you are probably not aware. So inciting people currently serving to leak information to journos is not on, I'm afraid.
Gentleman Aviator
Big Cheese 1 et al
Information embargoed until 211300AJul, many staishes briefing @1330 I understand..... I guess "Buff" will say his piece at about the same time.
Information embargoed until 211300AJul, many staishes briefing @1330 I understand..... I guess "Buff" will say his piece at about the same time.
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Teeteringhead beat me to it. As for the spooks getting all pantsy about information on this means "I am transmitting on this means" (heard just a few days ago at a secret airbase ) makes I laugh.
Try to be as vague or anonymous as you like. If they want to find out who you are then they will,very quickly too!!
Some of our more sensitive friends threatened all sorts of bad things and not just by PM's.
Be careful about what you say.
Information in the public domain , lighthearted or pointed banter is all what makes this place fun.
Going for a beer tonight to see whats left of Brit mil
Try to be as vague or anonymous as you like. If they want to find out who you are then they will,very quickly too!!
Some of our more sensitive friends threatened all sorts of bad things and not just by PM's.
Be careful about what you say.
Information in the public domain , lighthearted or pointed banter is all what makes this place fun.
Going for a beer tonight to see whats left of Brit mil
Presumably if, as widely rumoured, the Jaguar force is to be cut, then, if Prescott is known as 'Two Jags', BuffHoon will become 'No Jags'...?
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Your friendly Secretary of State has spoken!
Hoon to announce defence shake-up
Press Association
Wednesday July 21, 2004
http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/s...265824,00.html
The defence secretary, Geoff Hoon, was today announcing the biggest shake-up of the military for a generation, with a round of cuts designed both to save money and to reshape the armed forces for modern warfare.
Historic army infantry regiments are expected to be gradually wound down, Challenger II tanks and Royal Navy warships scrapped and the death knell sounded for some RAF airbases.
Among the cuts is expected to be the closure of the last operational Battle of Britain fighter station, RAF Coltishall, near Norwich, which could close its gates by 2007.
The changes are driven in part by a shift in military strategy following the end of the Cold War towards the development of highly flexible rapid reaction forces capable of swift deployment to troublespots anywhere in the world.
The heavy equipment and large infantry units needed for the lengthy stand-off with the Soviet Union in central Europe are increasingly seen as redundant in the face of modern-day tasks like tackling terrorism, preventing WMD proliferation and peace-keeping.
But the shake-up - heralded in last December's white paper - also reflects financial pressures on the MoD.
In last week's spending review, Chancellor Gordon Brown gave the Ministry a 1.4% annual real-terms increase in its budget, but demanded £2.8billion in savings on procurement of equipment and back-room support functions by 2007-08.
Up to 15 Army regiments are reported to be slated for merger into larger regional units and others disbanded today as part of the shift in priorities towards hi-tech warfare and specialist personnel. The move could mean the loss of historic regimental names.
Meanwhile, speculation is rife that the Navy will lose six ships - thought to be three Type 23 anti-submarine frigates and three ageing Type 42 destroyers. Reports have suggested the number of new Type 45 destroyers it is due to receive may be cut from 12 to eight or fewer.
The Navy is thought likely to lose 5,000 personnel and the axe may fall on the historic Royal Naval College at Dartmouth. The RAF will lose personnel as well as a number of airbases and most of its 62 Jaguar ground attack aircraft, it is reported.
But the Eurofighter programme is thought likely to survive, though the number of the controversial fighter jets to be commissioned by the RAF may be cut from the currently envisaged 232.
Coltishall - the base used by Second World War fighter ace Douglas Bader - has been the subject of closure speculation for months. In April, armed forces minister Adam Ingram said the RAF would have "no requirement" for the station after 2009 because of the planned phasing out of the 46 Jaguars based there.
At least two other RAF bases in East Anglia - Wittering near Peterborough, Cambs and Honnington, Suffolk - are also thought to be in the firing line.
"It is feared that the damage to Coltishall will be terminal," said one military source last night. "It could close within two years. "Other stations in East Anglia are like to suffer smaller cuts although they are likely to stay open."
Unveiling his white paper, security in a changing world, to the Commons in December, Mr Hoon said that the emphasis would be on using technology to deliver the maximum military effect from the forces available.
"It has historically been the fashion to measure military capability in terms of the weight of numbers of units or platforms - of ships, of tanks and of aircraft," he said.
"That might have been appropriate for the attritional warfare of the past but, in today's environment, success will be achieved through an ability to act quickly, accurately and decisively, so as to deliver military effect a the right time.
"Our priority must now be on providing the capabilities to meet a much wider range of expeditionary tasks at a greater range from the UK, and at an ever-increasing tempo."
RAF Coltishall has been in the front line of the defence of the realm for more than 60 years. The base is synonymous with the great fighter aces of the Second World War, and it has been also home for the greatest names in fighting aircraft - Spitfire, Hurricane, Mosquito, Beaufighter, Vampire, Venom, Javelin, Hawker Hunter, Lightning and, in the modern era, Jaguar.
MoD officials and a spokesman for the base last night said they could not comment.
Hoon to announce defence shake-up
Press Association
Wednesday July 21, 2004
http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/s...265824,00.html
The defence secretary, Geoff Hoon, was today announcing the biggest shake-up of the military for a generation, with a round of cuts designed both to save money and to reshape the armed forces for modern warfare.
Historic army infantry regiments are expected to be gradually wound down, Challenger II tanks and Royal Navy warships scrapped and the death knell sounded for some RAF airbases.
Among the cuts is expected to be the closure of the last operational Battle of Britain fighter station, RAF Coltishall, near Norwich, which could close its gates by 2007.
The changes are driven in part by a shift in military strategy following the end of the Cold War towards the development of highly flexible rapid reaction forces capable of swift deployment to troublespots anywhere in the world.
The heavy equipment and large infantry units needed for the lengthy stand-off with the Soviet Union in central Europe are increasingly seen as redundant in the face of modern-day tasks like tackling terrorism, preventing WMD proliferation and peace-keeping.
But the shake-up - heralded in last December's white paper - also reflects financial pressures on the MoD.
In last week's spending review, Chancellor Gordon Brown gave the Ministry a 1.4% annual real-terms increase in its budget, but demanded £2.8billion in savings on procurement of equipment and back-room support functions by 2007-08.
Up to 15 Army regiments are reported to be slated for merger into larger regional units and others disbanded today as part of the shift in priorities towards hi-tech warfare and specialist personnel. The move could mean the loss of historic regimental names.
Meanwhile, speculation is rife that the Navy will lose six ships - thought to be three Type 23 anti-submarine frigates and three ageing Type 42 destroyers. Reports have suggested the number of new Type 45 destroyers it is due to receive may be cut from 12 to eight or fewer.
The Navy is thought likely to lose 5,000 personnel and the axe may fall on the historic Royal Naval College at Dartmouth. The RAF will lose personnel as well as a number of airbases and most of its 62 Jaguar ground attack aircraft, it is reported.
But the Eurofighter programme is thought likely to survive, though the number of the controversial fighter jets to be commissioned by the RAF may be cut from the currently envisaged 232.
Coltishall - the base used by Second World War fighter ace Douglas Bader - has been the subject of closure speculation for months. In April, armed forces minister Adam Ingram said the RAF would have "no requirement" for the station after 2009 because of the planned phasing out of the 46 Jaguars based there.
At least two other RAF bases in East Anglia - Wittering near Peterborough, Cambs and Honnington, Suffolk - are also thought to be in the firing line.
"It is feared that the damage to Coltishall will be terminal," said one military source last night. "It could close within two years. "Other stations in East Anglia are like to suffer smaller cuts although they are likely to stay open."
Unveiling his white paper, security in a changing world, to the Commons in December, Mr Hoon said that the emphasis would be on using technology to deliver the maximum military effect from the forces available.
"It has historically been the fashion to measure military capability in terms of the weight of numbers of units or platforms - of ships, of tanks and of aircraft," he said.
"That might have been appropriate for the attritional warfare of the past but, in today's environment, success will be achieved through an ability to act quickly, accurately and decisively, so as to deliver military effect a the right time.
"Our priority must now be on providing the capabilities to meet a much wider range of expeditionary tasks at a greater range from the UK, and at an ever-increasing tempo."
RAF Coltishall has been in the front line of the defence of the realm for more than 60 years. The base is synonymous with the great fighter aces of the Second World War, and it has been also home for the greatest names in fighting aircraft - Spitfire, Hurricane, Mosquito, Beaufighter, Vampire, Venom, Javelin, Hawker Hunter, Lightning and, in the modern era, Jaguar.
MoD officials and a spokesman for the base last night said they could not comment.