Hawk flight profiles
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Hawk flight profiles
I know I am going to get loads of stick for this but it's worth a shot.
As a crap wannabe ( Doc told me I'd be lucky to find the aircraft let alone fly it with my eyesight ) the closest i get to the RAF nowdays is FS2004.
Can anyone tell me what the flight profiles are of the Hawk fast jet training stage at Valley.
Things like routes, airspeed, altitude etc.
I am ex RAF and I appreciate it if you cannot answer this on security grounds.
TIA <donning flak vest.>
James.
As a crap wannabe ( Doc told me I'd be lucky to find the aircraft let alone fly it with my eyesight ) the closest i get to the RAF nowdays is FS2004.
Can anyone tell me what the flight profiles are of the Hawk fast jet training stage at Valley.
Things like routes, airspeed, altitude etc.
I am ex RAF and I appreciate it if you cannot answer this on security grounds.
TIA <donning flak vest.>
James.
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Your Average 'Flight Profile'
Having sat in the back and observed a few 'flight profiles' from RAF Valley, I would say that it normally goes like this.
Take Off - Emergency(simulated), leading to heavy weight cct in which the a/c goes through the centreline and experiences moderate buffet.
Climb: +/- 50kts.
Level Off: +/- 2000ft.
Then: 30 minutes of boredom whilst bloggs waffles around in the middle airspace.
Then: return to circuit - where a game of chicken unfolds as you dare to leave the 'I have control''s to the very last moment whilst 'the customer' attempts to orphan your children.
The profile continues on the ground - as you drive home in horizontal rain and 40 kts of wind to be greeted by your wife who is threatening to leave you if you spend one more day on this hell-hole of an island.
However - got to say - some of the most enjoyable days of my life. Thanks 208 Sqn (2000-2003).
Take Off - Emergency(simulated), leading to heavy weight cct in which the a/c goes through the centreline and experiences moderate buffet.
Climb: +/- 50kts.
Level Off: +/- 2000ft.
Then: 30 minutes of boredom whilst bloggs waffles around in the middle airspace.
Then: return to circuit - where a game of chicken unfolds as you dare to leave the 'I have control''s to the very last moment whilst 'the customer' attempts to orphan your children.
The profile continues on the ground - as you drive home in horizontal rain and 40 kts of wind to be greeted by your wife who is threatening to leave you if you spend one more day on this hell-hole of an island.
However - got to say - some of the most enjoyable days of my life. Thanks 208 Sqn (2000-2003).
What a poof! There's a decent dual carriageway off the island now and cars are much more reliable these days - plus in any case, the JP Mk 6 is a piece of utter pi$$ to fly! Try it when it used to take nearly 90 minutes just to get past Bangor, there were only 3 channels on TV of which much was in druidspeak, the place was dry on Sundays - and the aeroplanes were infinitely more demanding to fly.
Back in the days of proper swept wing a/c it used to be:
Take-off and accelerate to 370 KIAS (compromise between Gnat and Hunter best climb speeds). Intercept and follow the VYL 100 radial until approaching the desired level off point. Then with about 500 ft to go, roll inverted and pull down sufficiently to achieve level off height, then spot roll back to level flight. Do some GH, then aim for the TACAN dive arc via point Alfa. Start the dive from FL 185, then either join the visual through the I/P or tart about on the ILS. Take-off with full slipper tanks, land after 50 mins on minima with Shawbury, Pershore or Warton as the only available divs. If it was a dual trip, you might get a recovery via the A5 pass which was utter bliss!
Back in the days of proper swept wing a/c it used to be:
Take-off and accelerate to 370 KIAS (compromise between Gnat and Hunter best climb speeds). Intercept and follow the VYL 100 radial until approaching the desired level off point. Then with about 500 ft to go, roll inverted and pull down sufficiently to achieve level off height, then spot roll back to level flight. Do some GH, then aim for the TACAN dive arc via point Alfa. Start the dive from FL 185, then either join the visual through the I/P or tart about on the ILS. Take-off with full slipper tanks, land after 50 mins on minima with Shawbury, Pershore or Warton as the only available divs. If it was a dual trip, you might get a recovery via the A5 pass which was utter bliss!
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.
of course we add itt tooff.
......dream of flying in the front, getting to the jet on time after a 'quick' brief and quizz on limits and boldface as well as a quick 'when I flew the Vixen' story.......
....but then again, why bother.
You gotta do it to get the idea.
of course we add itt tooff.
......dream of flying in the front, getting to the jet on time after a 'quick' brief and quizz on limits and boldface as well as a quick 'when I flew the Vixen' story.......
....but then again, why bother.
You gotta do it to get the idea.
Ah - good old STUPRECCC and CUBSTUNT! And that firm of solicitors known as Speed, Trim and Lock... (or rather Unlock, click, click, white band, 'ELEV' caption etc).
Last edited by BEagle; 18th Jun 2004 at 11:29.
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hawks at valley
as a flying rozzer i am wondering what the chances are of geting a trip in a vacant seat in a hawk. i would be grateful if any of you military chaps would be able to shed some light as to the best way to wangle it, if it is at all possible.
many thanks, keep up the good work etc, respect to you all.
TFC
many thanks, keep up the good work etc, respect to you all.
TFC
Not having flown the Gnat since 1975, I vaguely recall STUPRECCC (for hydraulic failure):
S - Speed below 400/ M0.85
T - Trim (feel trim) to the Ideal sector on the FTPI
U - Unlock the elevators, checking 2 clicks, white band and 'ELEV' caption.
P - Power (hydraulic) cock - OFF
R - Raise the standby trim guard
E - Exhaust the pitch accumulator (1.5 to 2.5 deg TPI with u/c up, 5.5 to 6.5 with u/c down), then the aileron accumulator
C- Check elevator response
C - Check TPI response using s'by trim switches nose-up/nose-down
C - Changeover switches (Mod 399) - select
Then maintain the control column at the 'load free central' position using stick top switches to set pitch attitude, control column to hold attitude with unlocked elevators. With u/c down before landing, set 3 deg TPI and confirm a push force reqired to maintain level flight; relax push force to flare.
And CUBSTUNT (for AC/DC failure):
C - Cabin altimeter cock to 'Static'
U - S'by UHF ON
B - Boost pump OFF
S - Speed below 300/M0.7
T - Trim to ideal sector
U - Unlock elevators (2 clicks, white band, 'ELEV' caption on)
N - Non essential electrics OFF
T - Transponder to 7700
S - Speed below 400/ M0.85
T - Trim (feel trim) to the Ideal sector on the FTPI
U - Unlock the elevators, checking 2 clicks, white band and 'ELEV' caption.
P - Power (hydraulic) cock - OFF
R - Raise the standby trim guard
E - Exhaust the pitch accumulator (1.5 to 2.5 deg TPI with u/c up, 5.5 to 6.5 with u/c down), then the aileron accumulator
C- Check elevator response
C - Check TPI response using s'by trim switches nose-up/nose-down
C - Changeover switches (Mod 399) - select
Then maintain the control column at the 'load free central' position using stick top switches to set pitch attitude, control column to hold attitude with unlocked elevators. With u/c down before landing, set 3 deg TPI and confirm a push force reqired to maintain level flight; relax push force to flare.
And CUBSTUNT (for AC/DC failure):
C - Cabin altimeter cock to 'Static'
U - S'by UHF ON
B - Boost pump OFF
S - Speed below 300/M0.7
T - Trim to ideal sector
U - Unlock elevators (2 clicks, white band, 'ELEV' caption on)
N - Non essential electrics OFF
T - Transponder to 7700
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Good God - what have I started? Seems like I have ruffled a few feathers in the PPRUNE retirement home. I feel as if I have entered the TV lounge and switched channels from Songs of Praise to Top of the Pops. All that can be heard are the rantings of 'Gnat', 'Hunter', '.. queen of the skies' and 'nurse, I think I need changing now'. As I wait (with armour plated firewall) for the obvious backlash from the PPRUNE old faithful, I ask just one question - Is it true that all the limiting speed / rules of thumb that we use for Hawk (recently introduced advanced trainer at Valley) are the same as the Hunter merely because the 'old guard' couldn't be bothered to learn a new set of numbers?
I sign off with the utmost respect for my elders and betters.
(+ bad luck to the unfortunate who started this thread only to have it hijacked by bored ex QFIs).
I sign off with the utmost respect for my elders and betters.
(+ bad luck to the unfortunate who started this thread only to have it hijacked by bored ex QFIs).
Which specific rules of thumb?
When the Hawk first entered service, BWoS wondered why fatigue use was so high. "You didn't use that much 'g' in the Hunter - why are you doing so in the Hawk" quoth one worthy.
"Because we can" was the obvious reply!
Good things about the Gnat:
1. Sooo responsive.
2. Offset TACAN
3. Classic swept wing characteristics
4. It was cool to go supersonic solo!
Bad things about the Gnat:
1. Virtually everything else
Good things about the Hawk:
1. Fuel!
2. G
3. Easy to fly
Bad things about the Hawk:
1. The abysmal compass system it had pre-AHARS
2. No offset TACAN
3. That's about it!
Did Brawdy on the Hunter and then a few years later Chivenor on the Hawk. Each had its advantages - but only one was a true thoroughbred.
Do they still do the TACAN dive to point Alfa, then ILS via point Foxtrot profile at VYL? That might help chummy with his FS2004 query.
When the Hawk first entered service, BWoS wondered why fatigue use was so high. "You didn't use that much 'g' in the Hunter - why are you doing so in the Hawk" quoth one worthy.
"Because we can" was the obvious reply!
Good things about the Gnat:
1. Sooo responsive.
2. Offset TACAN
3. Classic swept wing characteristics
4. It was cool to go supersonic solo!
Bad things about the Gnat:
1. Virtually everything else
Good things about the Hawk:
1. Fuel!
2. G
3. Easy to fly
Bad things about the Hawk:
1. The abysmal compass system it had pre-AHARS
2. No offset TACAN
3. That's about it!
Did Brawdy on the Hunter and then a few years later Chivenor on the Hawk. Each had its advantages - but only one was a true thoroughbred.
Do they still do the TACAN dive to point Alfa, then ILS via point Foxtrot profile at VYL? That might help chummy with his FS2004 query.
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just a quick one in response to the flying rozzer, if you fancy gettin a trip on the hawk then maybe you could stop your buddies in the north wales police constabulary from camping out on a55 road bridges with their mobile speed cameras. Failing that grow a large pair of breasts, that always seems to work.
nothing personal of course
nothing personal of course
