Flying Pay - to go????
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Flying Pay - to go????
Anyone heard any of the rumblings proposed for the new structure of SSP?
Alledgedly the three years grace before yr flying pay (or any specialist pay to that matter s/m etc) takes a dip is set to go.
That means as soon as you leave the cockpit SSP(F) will cease - still trying to seek clarification on 'flying related' desk/staff jobs and whether this rumour is true at all.
Will be interesting to see how the bean counters hailing this as a major cost saving will emeloriate this with the bonuses that are being shelled out concurrently!!
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jingly,
an example of blunty logic:
flying pay is an allowance
flying pay is not pay (remember all that fuss about flying pay and pensions a while ago?)
therefore ground tour results in loss of an allowance, not pay
therefore OK
an example of aircrew logic:
where's my f*****g money you blunt b*****d
neither of which do much good!
p.s. I can think of one thing worse than becoming a blunty, being in Basrah! ... take care.
an example of blunty logic:
flying pay is an allowance
flying pay is not pay (remember all that fuss about flying pay and pensions a while ago?)
therefore ground tour results in loss of an allowance, not pay
therefore OK
an example of aircrew logic:
where's my f*****g money you blunt b*****d
neither of which do much good!
p.s. I can think of one thing worse than becoming a blunty, being in Basrah! ... take care.
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If you aint in a flying job, why get the perks?
The time old argument given to aircrew as to why different branches/trades get different rates of flying pay, on the same aircraft, is that it is not danger money but a retention incentive. Some trades need more incentive to stay in than others (e.g. pilots can get much better pay flying civilian self-loading freight, with far better working conditions). This shows that even those at the top realise that flying pay is not a 'perk'.
By posting aircrew to ground tours, under the new scheme (if it is indeed more than mere rumour) you will be removing both the perks and incentive to stay. Just watch the flood gates open!
MadMark!!!
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Just a thought........
Have 2 methods of entry. Let's say we call them Airmen Aircrew and Officers.
Airmen Aircrew get paid lots of dough for being Drivers, Aeroplane but, recognising that it's basically a young blokes thing (at least the pointy end) or an old knackered blokes thing (truckies aka airline pilots) you get to leave early and the airlines get a steady flow of recruits eager to get on the treadmill of bus driving with high pay (eventually).
Officers, recognising that they are 'leaders' opt for a full career which means secondary duties, ground tours etc etc etc. And while they fly, sometimes, they also get a go at the big dough and kudos of higher rank. They also get paid as regular officers, except when they are in a flying appointment when they get 'flying pay'.
Airmen Aircrew who realise that they don't want to be Drivers, Aeroplane all their life and wish to make some kind of contribution to their company (The RAF) can, IF they have the 'right stuff', apply for and be selected to become officers.
Problem solved at a stroke. The boys can enjoy playing with their shiny kit and those with ability can run the company.
Have 2 methods of entry. Let's say we call them Airmen Aircrew and Officers.
Airmen Aircrew get paid lots of dough for being Drivers, Aeroplane but, recognising that it's basically a young blokes thing (at least the pointy end) or an old knackered blokes thing (truckies aka airline pilots) you get to leave early and the airlines get a steady flow of recruits eager to get on the treadmill of bus driving with high pay (eventually).
Officers, recognising that they are 'leaders' opt for a full career which means secondary duties, ground tours etc etc etc. And while they fly, sometimes, they also get a go at the big dough and kudos of higher rank. They also get paid as regular officers, except when they are in a flying appointment when they get 'flying pay'.
Airmen Aircrew who realise that they don't want to be Drivers, Aeroplane all their life and wish to make some kind of contribution to their company (The RAF) can, IF they have the 'right stuff', apply for and be selected to become officers.
Problem solved at a stroke. The boys can enjoy playing with their shiny kit and those with ability can run the company.
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A907..Were you really an RAF Admin Officer? Your thoughts are far too logical and good and would not be accepted by the airships running the firm when I was in. I suspect the same applies today.
During your period (and mine just about) there were several reasonable ideas which would keep aircrew flying at the expense of a career but couldn't (wouldn't) cater for non officer pilots and navs. Mind you we did have a few more cockpits to fill!!
Still, an excellent idea, and you deserve a CDM and bar.
During your period (and mine just about) there were several reasonable ideas which would keep aircrew flying at the expense of a career but couldn't (wouldn't) cater for non officer pilots and navs. Mind you we did have a few more cockpits to fill!!
Still, an excellent idea, and you deserve a CDM and bar.
Why not adopt the same allowance system as the civvy FTO/FTEs get (or used to when I was doing it)? The deal was £8.60 per hour or part of hour flown (used to make for a lot of 2hr 05min sorties as I recall............).
Personally I can't see why we (I currently have aircrew in my team) have to fork out for a "flying allowance" when they are sitting behind a desk.
Of course, we could always get rid of the daft system that effectively "charges" budget holders for the bods in their teams, in which case I couldn't give a t*ss about flying pay........... :-)>
Personally I can't see why we (I currently have aircrew in my team) have to fork out for a "flying allowance" when they are sitting behind a desk.
Of course, we could always get rid of the daft system that effectively "charges" budget holders for the bods in their teams, in which case I couldn't give a t*ss about flying pay........... :-)>
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Roghead ..... Yes I was a real Admin Officer and, like lots of Admin Officers, really wanted to be aircrew. That's why some of us had an empathy with the pointy end and were accepted (at least I think we were!). Once I was out I joined a company that said that they would like to pay to teach me to fly for them. Needless to say I snatched their hand off and, having done more hours in the Oz outback fetching, delivering and post maintenance test flying than I care to think about, I can genuinely see both sides of the argument.
Oh.. and by the way, while I was in MOD 87-90 I wrote the rehash of the Airmen Aircrew flying pay structure. Didn't go down too well but I was being directed by very senior officer pilots!!
Oh.. and by the way, while I was in MOD 87-90 I wrote the rehash of the Airmen Aircrew flying pay structure. Didn't go down too well but I was being directed by very senior officer pilots!!
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A907. good on you mate,I was also lucky enough to find an employer who paid for me to pilot their planes- didn't pay flying pay however just a good enough salary (thanks Warton).However back to the thread, young guys and gals join the RAF as aircrew, to fly and part of the deal is that they receive flying pay.It's bad enough that the "extra" is not taken into consideration with regard pensions and totally iniquitous that it should be dispensed with altogether.
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One problem with taking flying pay off you sharp pointy aggressive types that I can see is that you then penalise the guys who are ear-marked for greatness, so they do their best not to get a blunt tour and we get some snivelling brown nosing career ****** as CAS.
Even the blunties want someone with credibility rather than some guy who decided early on that he'd rather be poor and have a knighthood.
Even the blunties want someone with credibility rather than some guy who decided early on that he'd rather be poor and have a knighthood.
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Err....isn't there a bit of an echo in here?
We did this rumour not 3 weeks ago...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=127891
I seem to remember that one was kicked off by an article in the Torygraph suggesting FP would be removed for those on ground tours.
However, I also remember that the thing peetered out as soon as CAS very unusually put out a categorical denial that the matter was being discussed.
D4R
We did this rumour not 3 weeks ago...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=127891
I seem to remember that one was kicked off by an article in the Torygraph suggesting FP would be removed for those on ground tours.
However, I also remember that the thing peetered out as soon as CAS very unusually put out a categorical denial that the matter was being discussed.
D4R
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If CAS categorically denies the rumour then it must be true
And that's one of the reasons why this ex blunty got out 'cos I could see some of the thrusting wannabe CASs scrambling over the knives in the back of their mates and I wasn't impressed with the quality. Eleven years later .....was I right, or was I right
And that's one of the reasons why this ex blunty got out 'cos I could see some of the thrusting wannabe CASs scrambling over the knives in the back of their mates and I wasn't impressed with the quality. Eleven years later .....was I right, or was I right
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Crab old son!, Here here!
Personally, if they can take my money away, I can walk out the door with 30 days notice!
Also, I can sue the Ba5t4rds for breaking the contract of employment, create havoc with the Sun, local MP and generally not work all that hard, take sports afternoons and follow their example of which QRs I need to follow and which I choose to ignore (I seem to remember the system, for years, ignoring the QR about Club Class Air travel for trips over 2.5 hours.)
Anyway - the wife's just got a new sales job and she earns more than this knackered old PAS aircrew type now so sod em all!
Surprised the Sun hasn't picked this one up - "Our Brave Boys (and Girls) to return home to dole/pay cut" etc, etc etc.
Personally, if they can take my money away, I can walk out the door with 30 days notice!
Also, I can sue the Ba5t4rds for breaking the contract of employment, create havoc with the Sun, local MP and generally not work all that hard, take sports afternoons and follow their example of which QRs I need to follow and which I choose to ignore (I seem to remember the system, for years, ignoring the QR about Club Class Air travel for trips over 2.5 hours.)
Anyway - the wife's just got a new sales job and she earns more than this knackered old PAS aircrew type now so sod em all!
Surprised the Sun hasn't picked this one up - "Our Brave Boys (and Girls) to return home to dole/pay cut" etc, etc etc.
Last edited by Vage Rot; 18th May 2004 at 21:02.
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Whilst the article that this is based on may not be true - I wouldn't bet against there being a review of fg pay (as part of a wider review of allowances). I was talking to a submariner recently about his specialist pay. Apparently the system works so that if he is on a boat (or a directly linked job such as being a trapper or being emplyed in a role that specifically requires his sub experience) then he gets his full sub pay, if he comes off a boat or linked job then after a set period (a year I think he said) then he goes down to 75% of the full pay. If he is not employed in an appropriate job he then loses all the pay after 6 years. At any point he can re-start the clock if he is posted back to a sub linked job.
Whilst I am second guessing the higher paid help, I would have thought that a similar system for fg pay would seem acceptable to some, and those to whom it wasn't - well the PVR rate would hopefully help us a long to our target manning figures (whatever they may be).
Whilst I am second guessing the higher paid help, I would have thought that a similar system for fg pay would seem acceptable to some, and those to whom it wasn't - well the PVR rate would hopefully help us a long to our target manning figures (whatever they may be).
Last edited by PURPLE-XD; 20th May 2004 at 15:07.
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Purple-XD
As I understand things, the system you speak of has already been in place in the RAF for a number of years! Jobs are classified as "flying related" or "non-flying related". The flying related jobs have no restriction on flying pay, but if you are in a non-flying related job then I think flying pay drops to 75% after 3 years (if memory serves right).
The thing is that when the system was introduced it was decided that the vast majority of ground tours were flying related - sims, HQ tours, OEU jobs etc.
I could see that as part of the many current "working strands" being looked at, a rebalancing of what is classified as flying and non-flying related might happen.
The AFPRB Report 2005 is scheduled to contain a major review/overhaul of flying pay.
D4R
As I understand things, the system you speak of has already been in place in the RAF for a number of years! Jobs are classified as "flying related" or "non-flying related". The flying related jobs have no restriction on flying pay, but if you are in a non-flying related job then I think flying pay drops to 75% after 3 years (if memory serves right).
The thing is that when the system was introduced it was decided that the vast majority of ground tours were flying related - sims, HQ tours, OEU jobs etc.
I could see that as part of the many current "working strands" being looked at, a rebalancing of what is classified as flying and non-flying related might happen.
The AFPRB Report 2005 is scheduled to contain a major review/overhaul of flying pay.
D4R
