27Apr04 - War Games E Anglia
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27Apr04 - War Games E Anglia
This is not a whinge in any form, just a request for advice. I have a farm strip just in south Norfolk (class G airspace) and although I'd promised to take a friend's nine year old kid flying after school as a birthday treat, I was rather hesitant about doing so.
Yesterday, hazy sunshine all day and early morning a couple of Gazelles transitted my farm low and slow - no problems with this. A few seconds later two fast jets (they were Hawks or possibly Alphajets?) appeared out of the murk and it was game on. I suspect that the jets were looking for the Gazelles as one Gazelle was hovering in a paddock a quarter mile north of the my strip/ house.
This scenario repeated itself several times throughout the day, with the helicopters hiding or lying in ambush at points around the farm and mil jets screaming towards them, then pulling up.
All in all a great distraction and one I enjoy watching. Beats listening to Radio2 in the tractor! As the day grew older and these games did not appear to be winding up, I pushed an aeroplane out of the hangar near the house so that the helicopter crews could see it and perhaps put 2 and 2 together and realise that there was a possibility that the it might just want to depart from the grass strip that they were crossing at I guess 80'. I have no doubt that they saw it as they passed less than a hundred yards away and it is bright yellow!
Normally I would not have been so concerned but yesterday's the viz although legal was not great. I tried to phone Wattisham several times to ascertain the time of endex but we civvies have as much problem with MOD operators as you lot! No joy there.
I did take the kid for a ten minute trip to see her house from the sky but left a tractor driver with a handheld and a discreet frequency so that he could tell me if the army were still playing around the strip when I returned.
Apart from curbing my enthusiasm to go flying and perhaps dissapointing a youngster, was there anything more I could have done to make the crews (who certainly saw me around the farm) realise that I was going to exercise my right to aviate?
If anyone reading this recognises this event from a DPM point of view then pls drop me a note and we can talk about it. To reiterate, I am not complaining, but would like to improve comms.
Thanks,
Stik
Yesterday, hazy sunshine all day and early morning a couple of Gazelles transitted my farm low and slow - no problems with this. A few seconds later two fast jets (they were Hawks or possibly Alphajets?) appeared out of the murk and it was game on. I suspect that the jets were looking for the Gazelles as one Gazelle was hovering in a paddock a quarter mile north of the my strip/ house.
This scenario repeated itself several times throughout the day, with the helicopters hiding or lying in ambush at points around the farm and mil jets screaming towards them, then pulling up.
All in all a great distraction and one I enjoy watching. Beats listening to Radio2 in the tractor! As the day grew older and these games did not appear to be winding up, I pushed an aeroplane out of the hangar near the house so that the helicopter crews could see it and perhaps put 2 and 2 together and realise that there was a possibility that the it might just want to depart from the grass strip that they were crossing at I guess 80'. I have no doubt that they saw it as they passed less than a hundred yards away and it is bright yellow!
Normally I would not have been so concerned but yesterday's the viz although legal was not great. I tried to phone Wattisham several times to ascertain the time of endex but we civvies have as much problem with MOD operators as you lot! No joy there.
I did take the kid for a ten minute trip to see her house from the sky but left a tractor driver with a handheld and a discreet frequency so that he could tell me if the army were still playing around the strip when I returned.
Apart from curbing my enthusiasm to go flying and perhaps dissapointing a youngster, was there anything more I could have done to make the crews (who certainly saw me around the farm) realise that I was going to exercise my right to aviate?
If anyone reading this recognises this event from a DPM point of view then pls drop me a note and we can talk about it. To reiterate, I am not complaining, but would like to improve comms.
Thanks,
Stik
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Did you try to contact any of the Wattisham / Marham / Cotishall / Norwich / Anglia radar frequencies to ask about the duration of the ex? A hawk only has an endurance of approx 1 hr so it could only go on for a finite amount of time.
The hawks and gazelles were likely to be looking out a great deal, with as many concerns about LL puddle jumpers as you probably had about them!
The hawks and gazelles were likely to be looking out a great deal, with as many concerns about LL puddle jumpers as you probably had about them!
Hi Sticknruda,
They were on a F.A.C. exercise working Wattisham Approach mostly. There were 2 NOTAMS in effect to cover it. The exercise has finished now.
Cheers,
LXGB
They were on a F.A.C. exercise working Wattisham Approach mostly. There were 2 NOTAMS in effect to cover it. The exercise has finished now.
Cheers,
LXGB
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The Cyclone, the reason that I tried to raise Watt on the l/line is that my vintage aircraft has no electrics! I knew the rotary aircraft were from there as per the Notam.
However since this post has slipped down the pages, I've had a few PMs detailing exactly the info I wanted. It will probably work both ways with the AAC being allowed to do confined landings on my land.
Thanks everyone
Stik
However since this post has slipped down the pages, I've had a few PMs detailing exactly the info I wanted. It will probably work both ways with the AAC being allowed to do confined landings on my land.
Thanks everyone
Stik
S&R,
Please post the relevent information on here, so that the rest of the interested aviation community learns of the great advice you have received. It can only help.
Ta, RG.
Please post the relevent information on here, so that the rest of the interested aviation community learns of the great advice you have received. It can only help.
Ta, RG.
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Easy, Busta. Sounds like we've got an enthusiast and fellow aviator here who had a problem trying to communicate to make a safe situation. I don't think he was having a go - in fact his opening words were 'this is not a whinge in any form'. Rather, he had a comms problem and was coming to us for advice/recommendations.
Stik - my suggestion would be that you persist in trying to get through to Wattisham and get hold of the SATCO, or boss of the AAC units based there. Advise them that you are a local landowner who is happy for them to use your land for training, but that you also operate a light ac [without radio] from your strip. You want to meet them to establish a safe way you can communicate each other's intentions to avoid possible future flight safety problems.
It would be useful if you could visit the base and get an insight into what they get up to. It is also useful to put a face to the voice - both ways. I hope you will be surprised and delighted with their willingness to cooperate [Wattisham people please note].
Stik - my suggestion would be that you persist in trying to get through to Wattisham and get hold of the SATCO, or boss of the AAC units based there. Advise them that you are a local landowner who is happy for them to use your land for training, but that you also operate a light ac [without radio] from your strip. You want to meet them to establish a safe way you can communicate each other's intentions to avoid possible future flight safety problems.
It would be useful if you could visit the base and get an insight into what they get up to. It is also useful to put a face to the voice - both ways. I hope you will be surprised and delighted with their willingness to cooperate [Wattisham people please note].
May also be a problem caused by the people who run ATC at Wattisham. Generally, many of the controllers are very professional and eager to please. However, there are some, assistants and controllers, who aren't. Would it surprise anyone to know that SERCO runs ATC there?? If you get the run around again, do as one of the guys has said and call either Marham or Colt. They have radar cover over the same area and have direct lines to other units which means that any enquiries that you have can be passed directly to controllers at other units.
stiknruda, do you have a handheld VHF radio? Relatively inexpensive and an easy-ish way to solve the problem!
stiknruda, do you have a handheld VHF radio? Relatively inexpensive and an easy-ish way to solve the problem!
Hi whowhenwhy,
Stiknruda's enquiry was forwarded to the relevant people at Wattisham and a Private Message was sent. He seemed more than happy with the answer he got via my reply to his post as well as the info in the PM.
Why the inflammatory remarks about Wattisham ATC and Serco? I thought there was a very good working relationship between them and the surrounding units. Have you had a bad experience in the past with them? If so, why not call for a chat and get it off your chest? Alternatively, feel free to send me a PM.
Slagging off an adjacent ATC unit on PPRUNE is not the most productive or professional way of sorting out your problems.
Regards,
LXGB
Stiknruda's enquiry was forwarded to the relevant people at Wattisham and a Private Message was sent. He seemed more than happy with the answer he got via my reply to his post as well as the info in the PM.
Why the inflammatory remarks about Wattisham ATC and Serco? I thought there was a very good working relationship between them and the surrounding units. Have you had a bad experience in the past with them? If so, why not call for a chat and get it off your chest? Alternatively, feel free to send me a PM.
Slagging off an adjacent ATC unit on PPRUNE is not the most productive or professional way of sorting out your problems.
Regards,
LXGB
