Chopped from GR4 - what next?
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Chopped from GR4 - what next?
Having spent the last 4 years of my RAF career working towards a place on the fast-jet front line I was gutted to be chopped from the GR4 OCU at the start of the year.
After some time to think about it I came to the conclusion that life wasn't too bad and that a career as a multi-engine pilot was surely the way ahead. Strike Command were also happy to recommend me for this role.
Imagine my shock and horror when I was told that a decision had come from the corridors of the Personnel Management Agency decreeing that there was indeed no space for me in the multi-engine training system and that I was to be offered a ground branch!
Anybody out there got any comments, similar experiences or advice on my next move?
After some time to think about it I came to the conclusion that life wasn't too bad and that a career as a multi-engine pilot was surely the way ahead. Strike Command were also happy to recommend me for this role.
Imagine my shock and horror when I was told that a decision had come from the corridors of the Personnel Management Agency decreeing that there was indeed no space for me in the multi-engine training system and that I was to be offered a ground branch!
Anybody out there got any comments, similar experiences or advice on my next move?
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I know at least 2 people who have appealed these things successfully. It seems absolutely ridiculous waste of money to train a pilot for 4 years then offer them a ground brach instead of a restream.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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What a shocker! Mate, you obviously have flying ability, I'd agree with Tonks. Push for helos, all my mates that have gone that way are having a ball. Appeal this ridiculous decision until the world has run out of ink!!! Otherwise, vote with your feet. To be honest, I think that the Fast Jet World is in for a bit of a shock in the coming months.
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To be honest, I think that the Fast Jet World is in for a bit of a shock in the coming months
Flyingphats, do you mind me asking what got you the chop on XV?
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Shocker!
Heard the news through the grapevine, very sorry.
Isn't it funny how PMA decide their retention policies according to the airline recruitment trends. They'll be desperate in a couple of years no doubt.
Fight it Phats, or go rotory/civvy. Worst case, become a professional goal post mover. I know you were good at that.......hey, just like PMA!
Beware the Moose's milk.
Heard the news through the grapevine, very sorry.
Isn't it funny how PMA decide their retention policies according to the airline recruitment trends. They'll be desperate in a couple of years no doubt.
Fight it Phats, or go rotory/civvy. Worst case, become a professional goal post mover. I know you were good at that.......hey, just like PMA!
Beware the Moose's milk.
Airline recruiting trends are already picking up. I've been asked to give references to 2 people applying for First Officer jobs with airlines in the last 3 weeks alone...
PMA, pi$$-ups, breweries - discuss!
The nation has spent millionson training you, flyingphats, there should be some proper return on that investment. Any ex-Tornado pilot will be a better bet for the ME world than some MELIN-lemon!
DON'T, whatever you do, accept a job as a ground-pounding Untermensch! "I fly or I f*ck off" should be your aim!
PMA, pi$$-ups, breweries - discuss!
The nation has spent millionson training you, flyingphats, there should be some proper return on that investment. Any ex-Tornado pilot will be a better bet for the ME world than some MELIN-lemon!
DON'T, whatever you do, accept a job as a ground-pounding Untermensch! "I fly or I f*ck off" should be your aim!
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"I fly or I f*ck off" should be your aim!
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Appeal first, then call their bluff. Make it plain that you are leaving unless you end up as a pilot.
If you don't end up flying, leave and join an airline. Life is too short to be a ground pounder; if you have set your heart on flying.
If you don't, you will regret it.
Ghost
If you don't end up flying, leave and join an airline. Life is too short to be a ground pounder; if you have set your heart on flying.
If you don't, you will regret it.
Ghost
I'd second the advice to appeal and take any flying slot. If that doesn't work I'd be tempted to stay in for a little while. The reason is that it costs a bit of time and money to prepare for airline life (doubt that you'll have the hours yet for ATPL) and ground job is not a bad place to get ready. Pay is good (you'll need to pay for exams, crammers, night hours etc) and you'll have lots of time to do it as Blunties do c*ck all, all day so lots of time to revise.
Make a plan and stick to the timings so that you're ready to go asap.
Make a plan and stick to the timings so that you're ready to go asap.
I FLY OR I F*CK OFF!!
Say it over and over - and don't settle for anything less! The very best of luck to you in your future flying career.
Say it over and over - and don't settle for anything less! The very best of luck to you in your future flying career.
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Flyingphats
Please exercise caution with some of the advice that has been offered. Telling your boss where to shove it would be great if you could but you need a good parachute strapped to you before you utter the words.
Beagle is right in that the UK pilot market is recovering steadily but, and this where you need to think carefully, most if not all of the pilots currently being hired are type rated.
Telling the guys that chopped you that you fly or you foxtrot oscar may be just what they want to hear. Sit down at a desk for a short time (on full pay) and study for your ATPL. When you've got it and decide to make a break for it PM me I'll see if I can help you with a RHS.
Good luck
FEBA
Please exercise caution with some of the advice that has been offered. Telling your boss where to shove it would be great if you could but you need a good parachute strapped to you before you utter the words.
Beagle is right in that the UK pilot market is recovering steadily but, and this where you need to think carefully, most if not all of the pilots currently being hired are type rated.
Telling the guys that chopped you that you fly or you foxtrot oscar may be just what they want to hear. Sit down at a desk for a short time (on full pay) and study for your ATPL. When you've got it and decide to make a break for it PM me I'll see if I can help you with a RHS.
Good luck
FEBA
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Might one inquire as to how badly one did on the OCU? Were you border-line fail or something worse? This may be affecting the way the hierarchy are thinking.
Fly the desk for a while and rethink your future prospects. Wait and see what they offer on appeal.
I'm no expert, just my opinion.
Fly the desk for a while and rethink your future prospects. Wait and see what they offer on appeal.
I'm no expert, just my opinion.
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Item below is taken from Hansard (PQ 3 Mar 2004) Link
============
Lord Astor of Hever asked Her Majesty's Government:
What is the current shortfall in pilots in the Army, the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy.[HL1396]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach): At 1 January 2004, the overall shortfall of trained pilots in the Royal Navy was 25 (3.8 per cent). Pilots in the Army were near full manning with a shortfall of 10 (1.5 per cent), while in the Royal Air Force, the shortfall of junior officer pilots was 75 (4.8 per cent) of the requirement.
=============
Don't give up the fight - there is a need for JO pilots somewhere in the RAF.
============
Lord Astor of Hever asked Her Majesty's Government:
What is the current shortfall in pilots in the Army, the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy.[HL1396]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach): At 1 January 2004, the overall shortfall of trained pilots in the Royal Navy was 25 (3.8 per cent). Pilots in the Army were near full manning with a shortfall of 10 (1.5 per cent), while in the Royal Air Force, the shortfall of junior officer pilots was 75 (4.8 per cent) of the requirement.
=============
Don't give up the fight - there is a need for JO pilots somewhere in the RAF.
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witchdoctor: You should be more discreet and less humorous about your brother whom I know well. A fine pilot and 'character' there should be more of him. He showed stacks of guts in beating their airships at their own game and succeeding despite the odds including his own!
flyingphats: My advice (born of experience) is as follows:
Do not be keen to ditch the RAF in a fit of pique. Fundamentally they are a stable employer in a very unstable world. By all means study for your ATPL. However, the civvy world has turned nasty. Few ex crab mates are happy in the airlines. Flat out rostering, heavy pressure from management to be 'commercial' about things the post 9/11 airline thing has turned sour.
Having achieved GR4 you would not have a problem flying an airliner; just ask around about what the job is really like. ou can do it in twenty years if you really want.
Hold out for any flying slot you can get. Be patient and accept that you are salaried, accommodated and generally looked after in the meantime.
Don't get cross with the RAF. All flying is very political.
The RAF work for the Queen. She will ultimately look after you. Airline pilots often work for sharks who don't care where they bite you.
flyingphats: My advice (born of experience) is as follows:
Do not be keen to ditch the RAF in a fit of pique. Fundamentally they are a stable employer in a very unstable world. By all means study for your ATPL. However, the civvy world has turned nasty. Few ex crab mates are happy in the airlines. Flat out rostering, heavy pressure from management to be 'commercial' about things the post 9/11 airline thing has turned sour.
Having achieved GR4 you would not have a problem flying an airliner; just ask around about what the job is really like. ou can do it in twenty years if you really want.
Hold out for any flying slot you can get. Be patient and accept that you are salaried, accommodated and generally looked after in the meantime.
Don't get cross with the RAF. All flying is very political.
The RAF work for the Queen. She will ultimately look after you. Airline pilots often work for sharks who don't care where they bite you.
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CR,
The RAF work for the MOD, who work for Hoon, who is paid for by Brown.
The Queen won't be getting her cheque book or corgis out to look after anyone. Defence is always easy to slash in any budget and I am not sure that hi tech aircraft will be as much use as grunts, with some of the modern threats we will face.
Ghost
The RAF work for the MOD, who work for Hoon, who is paid for by Brown.
The Queen won't be getting her cheque book or corgis out to look after anyone. Defence is always easy to slash in any budget and I am not sure that hi tech aircraft will be as much use as grunts, with some of the modern threats we will face.
Ghost
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HERE'S ANOTHER OPTION
Have you thought of transfering to the AAC and flying Apache?
You could then be doing the job of a Harrier mate but with real weapons rather than make believe ones.
You would still be sharing a cockpit, as in GR 4, so you wouldn't get lonely and you get a radar to play with as well
By the way how is your hovering?
Low Ball
You could then be doing the job of a Harrier mate but with real weapons rather than make believe ones.
You would still be sharing a cockpit, as in GR 4, so you wouldn't get lonely and you get a radar to play with as well
By the way how is your hovering?
Low Ball
Last edited by Low Ball; 18th Mar 2004 at 08:35.