Any room on Albert?
Arbie
I don't know how old you are, whether you are on a SSC or PC, or whether or not you have any long term career aspirations in the RAF. However, if you do, then you need to consider the long term future of the C-130K fleet. It's a bit difficult to be the boss of a C-130J or A-400M Sqn as a non-operating nav! Don't go down a potentially blind alley without thinking it through carefully first! Don't let anybody tell you there are still 20 years left in the C-130Ks, there aren't!!
Of course, if you are young and just out for a good time before you leave the RAF and make a million in business then it is a different story!!
Decide wisely and then enjoy!
I don't know how old you are, whether you are on a SSC or PC, or whether or not you have any long term career aspirations in the RAF. However, if you do, then you need to consider the long term future of the C-130K fleet. It's a bit difficult to be the boss of a C-130J or A-400M Sqn as a non-operating nav! Don't go down a potentially blind alley without thinking it through carefully first! Don't let anybody tell you there are still 20 years left in the C-130Ks, there aren't!!
Of course, if you are young and just out for a good time before you leave the RAF and make a million in business then it is a different story!!
Decide wisely and then enjoy!
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She has at least another 10 to 14 years left in her at the moment and I would wager more years after that. Just look at the B52 some of those frames are staying around until 2040 or so.
She may be old but now has some of the best equipment in the air force to do some of the best flying (130 kts @ 50ft ((legally)) or 16000 kg’s departs aircraft in 11 sec’s at 25G). There is no replacement for the Mk1's if you know what I mean and the first A400 will not be delivered till 2010 (if at all)
So the future is bright the future is C-130 K
She may not be higher or faster but she sure seams to be wanted.
All spelling mistakes are caused through w@nker dancing
She may be old but now has some of the best equipment in the air force to do some of the best flying (130 kts @ 50ft ((legally)) or 16000 kg’s departs aircraft in 11 sec’s at 25G). There is no replacement for the Mk1's if you know what I mean and the first A400 will not be delivered till 2010 (if at all)
So the future is bright the future is C-130 K
She may not be higher or faster but she sure seams to be wanted.
All spelling mistakes are caused through w@nker dancing
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Can't we all just get along...
As for K life, RAF K's are shiny and new compared to the E's (and some H's) still in active duty today in many other air forces...
And the K maintainers do a good job keeping them in working order.
As for K life, RAF K's are shiny and new compared to the E's (and some H's) still in active duty today in many other air forces...
And the K maintainers do a good job keeping them in working order.
Short Blunt Shock
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The K will be around for alot longer than anyone on the J fleet would like to think! - latest rumour is that we're going to steal the wings off the Mobile Engine Stands.......sorry, Mk5s, to extend the fatigue life on the long term 'smart' fleet........
I am not trying to start a J vs K bash. I am sure all you K guys are defending an aircraft you love (just as BEagle does with the VC-10), and I am not 'knocking' the C-130K. They might well have 20 years life left in them, once sold on the Pakistan or some other country. I just do not believe that the RAF intends to, or will, be using them for another 20+ years.
Arbie is a nav, if he intends a full career, and wants to be a Flt Cdr, Sqn Boss, Stn Cdr, on the type then he probably needs it to be in RAF service for 15+ years. I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE. That is not knocking the C-130K, it is just being realistic!
Jackinicko (I think) will make wonderful arguements about how cost effective and how many hours the Jag has left, WEBF about the folly of getting rid of the SHAR. They are both good aircraft still, but will go. Current RAF policy is to replace the C-130K. In the best traditions of the RAF that replacement will be late, but has ARBIE got 15+ years on the C-130K? I think not.
Still that is his descision. All I was trying to do is be honest with him about his future, not attack your K guys little empire! I am sure you have already made your decisions about your future!
Arbie is a nav, if he intends a full career, and wants to be a Flt Cdr, Sqn Boss, Stn Cdr, on the type then he probably needs it to be in RAF service for 15+ years. I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE. That is not knocking the C-130K, it is just being realistic!
Jackinicko (I think) will make wonderful arguements about how cost effective and how many hours the Jag has left, WEBF about the folly of getting rid of the SHAR. They are both good aircraft still, but will go. Current RAF policy is to replace the C-130K. In the best traditions of the RAF that replacement will be late, but has ARBIE got 15+ years on the C-130K? I think not.
Still that is his descision. All I was trying to do is be honest with him about his future, not attack your K guys little empire! I am sure you have already made your decisions about your future!
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16 Old fella
Couple of problems with your suggestion
a. Doubtful that an airframe as shot thru as the venerable old K could cope with the added power, lift capability, climb speed, operating ceiling blah blah that such a modification would bring it
b. Cast iron certainty that current operators would never cope with all of the above
, afterall it's widely accepted all the above average operators were creamed off to go to the J ............. which mean us J blokes would have to come back and operate in an aircraft that always stinks of pi@@........something we worked so hard to escape from
No mate it's probably more likely that the next round of defence cuts will bring forward the inevitable demise of the Klassic and see all that gucci kit........and a couple of specialist roles
end up where they very deservedly belong
al spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Couple of problems with your suggestion
a. Doubtful that an airframe as shot thru as the venerable old K could cope with the added power, lift capability, climb speed, operating ceiling blah blah that such a modification would bring it
b. Cast iron certainty that current operators would never cope with all of the above
, afterall it's widely accepted all the above average operators were creamed off to go to the J ............. which mean us J blokes would have to come back and operate in an aircraft that always stinks of pi@@........something we worked so hard to escape from No mate it's probably more likely that the next round of defence cuts will bring forward the inevitable demise of the Klassic and see all that gucci kit........and a couple of specialist roles
end up where they very deservedly belong al spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Honestly not trying to start the J v K rant off again (GOD FORBID) but I have a genuine question for the J operators.
What is the future looking like on the shop floor for the J now that you are not getting block 6.
Is there any truth in the rumour I have heard from a number of sources (not just the cleaners but also a fat bloke in the pub) that some / all the J are going to be sold off as the upgrades / spares are costing to much?
Please this is really a genuine question.
Also why do you feel that all the best and most capable went to the J, I know some complete half wits who don’t know there @rse from their elbow who went J. Then again I know a few who stayed on the K to (yes I am including myself in that).
All spelling mistakes are caused by w@nker dancing
What is the future looking like on the shop floor for the J now that you are not getting block 6.
Is there any truth in the rumour I have heard from a number of sources (not just the cleaners but also a fat bloke in the pub) that some / all the J are going to be sold off as the upgrades / spares are costing to much?
Please this is really a genuine question.
Also why do you feel that all the best and most capable went to the J, I know some complete half wits who don’t know there @rse from their elbow who went J. Then again I know a few who stayed on the K to (yes I am including myself in that).
All spelling mistakes are caused by w@nker dancing
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a lot of people talk about the future of the j as if it needs massive upgrades so that it will become effective. everyone should know by now what it is capable of from reading these pages. heres a question, what cant the j do?
heres a question, what cant the j do?
Leak like a Klassic
fly real slow all the time like a Klassic
Burn fuel like a Klassic
Quick Debriefs on a PMA.
Nuff Said
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TQ,
It was all said in jest..........and to get a bite out of Biggus of course..................too easy!
A whole host of rumours are bounced around on our side of the house as to what the future holds for the J. Some, like me, feel we have probably missed the boat, proof of that is the money being spent on the K, but are still trying our hardest to make the thing work. As regards a trade for something bigger none of us has any "good" gen on that but we have all heard the same whispers as you. It's a crying shame in many respects as it is a very capable frame but I am of the opinion, and I stress it's mine and mine only, that between the bean counters, future defense cuts and endless delays in obtaining clearances it will probably end up being a victim of circumstance.
Juliet.......it pains me to admit it but it can't drop everything the K does and because of poxy feckin politics it can't wrestle away the "role" it is eminantly suited for........and currently doing in "tea towel" land, and would without doubt of ensured it's future
Arbie sift through the good advice offered in here and form your own opinion but maybe Albert is not a real long term option
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
It was all said in jest..........and to get a bite out of Biggus of course
..................too easy! A whole host of rumours are bounced around on our side of the house as to what the future holds for the J. Some, like me, feel we have probably missed the boat, proof of that is the money being spent on the K, but are still trying our hardest to make the thing work. As regards a trade for something bigger none of us has any "good" gen on that but we have all heard the same whispers as you. It's a crying shame in many respects as it is a very capable frame but I am of the opinion, and I stress it's mine and mine only, that between the bean counters, future defense cuts and endless delays in obtaining clearances it will probably end up being a victim of circumstance.
Juliet.......it pains me to admit it but it can't drop everything the K does and because of poxy feckin politics it can't wrestle away the "role" it is eminantly suited for........and currently doing in "tea towel" land, and would without doubt of ensured it's future
Arbie sift through the good advice offered in here and form your own opinion but maybe Albert is not a real long term option
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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arby,
well, I couldn't agree more with ABIW, just try to look through all the bun fights going on here, 'it's not unusal' to coin a phrase...
But I do reckon you should come a visitin' if not to make up your own mind, then to see for yourself the backstabbing, cat fighting and rumour mongering that goes on here at the secret airbase in wilts. Almost as good as a jerry springer, almost.
Just think, one day, you too could be accused of stinking of p**s and being incontinent.... something to aspire to don't you think?
As for being a singly, well, the delights of the poo hole they call Swindon awaits!!
Happy hunting
well, I couldn't agree more with ABIW, just try to look through all the bun fights going on here, 'it's not unusal' to coin a phrase...
But I do reckon you should come a visitin' if not to make up your own mind, then to see for yourself the backstabbing, cat fighting and rumour mongering that goes on here at the secret airbase in wilts. Almost as good as a jerry springer, almost.
Just think, one day, you too could be accused of stinking of p**s and being incontinent.... something to aspire to don't you think?
As for being a singly, well, the delights of the poo hole they call Swindon awaits!!
Happy hunting
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Gents, and any Ladies, Once again we seem to find ourselves on an unrelated topic of discussion, arguing about K versus J. Well obviously I am not one to let lie a bit of Slander. Its high time those Navigators gave up the constant bitching. I happen to like my Nav; She is 6"by8" never complains, bitches or moans, doesn't eat all the crew rations, and is always polite. Furthermore she is ALWAYS accurate. 95% Perfect drop rates tell me that.The J is definitely here to stay. Working alongside the C17's, give the RAF a very credible Airlift capability. True, it cannot yet drop the same loads as a K, but are these loads ever likely to be needed in times of Crisis? I can't remember the last time a double MSP was dropped in Iraq.
Take a little look at our Cousins, the Australians. Yes, when they were first introduced into the RAAF, the Navs and Eng's spread rumor and conjecture, however, the tables are now turned. Talk to any of the INTELLIGENT aircrew on their H models, and they all say the J is very much needed. After their J gets an adequate DEF suite, then they will take over ops in the MEO. This sounds very familiar; Afghanistan and Iraq maybe.....Where the UK J fleet proved itself time and time again.
I'm sorry to get off my Hobby Horse, but it is time that people realize the K is a dying requirement. Ask the Army Parachute display team, which aircraft they would like, and the answer will always be JJJJJJJJJJ. Why the Government is wasting so much money on the K fleet is a mystery to me? When Lyneham goes, then so shall the K.
In answer to the topic question posed, of course there are jobs for Navigators on K's, however, do you really want to go down that path. As an Ex Fast Jet Nav, why not try out Australia with the F111, they always need someone. You don't really want to spend the rest of your RAF time thinking about your impending ground tour, or which early retirement package you could get.
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Epi
Not trying to assist in what seems to be a general slide into the K v J cr@p again BUT.
Since when did the military give up an option?
We still have tanks and when were they in a real tank battle against a well trained, equipped and steadfast opponent. We still have the F3 and when have they been deployed against a capable fighter threat. We still have the Pers Admin trade and when have they ever been of any use. (Sorry could not resist)
Just because we have a system that has not been used in anger as you say, in IRAQ why would those great and wise people above use wish to lose it. But for your info the K has done a few LIVE OP DROPS of thinks you cannot in the not so distant past.
Also I can understand why Navs and AENG are a bit peeved at the J, I am sure that when the pilot less future aircraft arrive the pilots will all be up in arms BUT
Why is it that some of the J blokes on this forum have such a chip on the shoulder reference the K. AWBW last post was honest and to the point. We on the K fleet know how hard the J crews are working, If you aircraft is as good as you say it is why all the fuss?
As for the parachute display team is not true that you as does the K gets the team to the DZ and then they steer themselves on to the target. Or is it different on the J? Do you attach a remote control to their chutes and to your nav kit to help glide them all the way in????
All spelling mistakes are caused through w@nker dancing
Not trying to assist in what seems to be a general slide into the K v J cr@p again BUT.
Since when did the military give up an option?
We still have tanks and when were they in a real tank battle against a well trained, equipped and steadfast opponent. We still have the F3 and when have they been deployed against a capable fighter threat. We still have the Pers Admin trade and when have they ever been of any use. (Sorry could not resist)
Just because we have a system that has not been used in anger as you say, in IRAQ why would those great and wise people above use wish to lose it. But for your info the K has done a few LIVE OP DROPS of thinks you cannot in the not so distant past.
Also I can understand why Navs and AENG are a bit peeved at the J, I am sure that when the pilot less future aircraft arrive the pilots will all be up in arms BUT
Why is it that some of the J blokes on this forum have such a chip on the shoulder reference the K. AWBW last post was honest and to the point. We on the K fleet know how hard the J crews are working, If you aircraft is as good as you say it is why all the fuss?
As for the parachute display team is not true that you as does the K gets the team to the DZ and then they steer themselves on to the target. Or is it different on the J? Do you attach a remote control to their chutes and to your nav kit to help glide them all the way in????
All spelling mistakes are caused through w@nker dancing
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TQ..............stop it you rascal We don't want any of that J v K stuff in ere'......however Pilots/Loadies v Nav's/Engs seems like a fair and very entertaining fight ........
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
We don't want any of that J v K stuff in ere'......however Pilots/Loadies v Nav's/Engs seems like a fair and very entertaining fight ........ all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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If you are actually worried about the very long term prospects of the K (which I doubt you are at this stage of your career) then maybe you should stay away.
If, however, you want to fly in an a/c that actually gets on with a real job behaind the line for real without crowing too much about it then Lyneham is the place for you.
If, however, you want to fly in an a/c that actually gets on with a real job behaind the line for real without crowing too much about it then Lyneham is the place for you.