Fighter Controllers?
Fighter Controllers?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hiq et Ubique
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Badge!!
As is the Airborne Tech, Chief Steward, and Air Steward joke wings. You guys and girls would look so much better in orange, so go join Easyjet- you get a proper name badge and everything!! At least there would be some desert flying kit for the real brevet wearers!!
Bu**er, I think I just dropped the pin to this grenade!!
BOOM!
As is the Airborne Tech, Chief Steward, and Air Steward joke wings. You guys and girls would look so much better in orange, so go join Easyjet- you get a proper name badge and everything!! At least there would be some desert flying kit for the real brevet wearers!!
Bu**er, I think I just dropped the pin to this grenade!!
BOOM!
TAC Int Bloke
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
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Sandy pit, do you mean the guys with 'N' on their brevets, as in 'Not got a job in fast jets?'
Or the other Eazyjet/Ryanair fodder, the ones that sit up front, who, if persuing their trade on the ground, would be described as 'MT drivers?'
-nick
Or the other Eazyjet/Ryanair fodder, the ones that sit up front, who, if persuing their trade on the ground, would be described as 'MT drivers?'
-nick
...........and with a non aircrew job
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Best they rush down and sign up now then; 'cos when they cancel the MR4 and downsize the rest of the Kipper fleet, there's going to a long queue for the jobs down at Ronnie Mac's.......
p.s. You must be really bored Sandy, two attempted wind ups on the same page, and not even original....
p.s. You must be really bored Sandy, two attempted wind ups on the same page, and not even original....
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Norfolk
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Never before have I heard such crap. How can the position of FC be berated in such a fashion.
For comedy value:
Example: - FJ female Nav chopped from 56 is instantly placed on a
E3 conversion course. What the f**k does any FJ know about FC?? (aploogies to the individual - victim of circumstance).
Get a life pal!
Fortunately most people in the RAF can't be so anally retentive to post threads such as this. If you made even the most basic of efforts to witness what the FC world is about then maybe views would be modified.
Disgust!
For comedy value:
Example: - FJ female Nav chopped from 56 is instantly placed on a
E3 conversion course. What the f**k does any FJ know about FC?? (aploogies to the individual - victim of circumstance).
Get a life pal!
Fortunately most people in the RAF can't be so anally retentive to post threads such as this. If you made even the most basic of efforts to witness what the FC world is about then maybe views would be modified.
Disgust!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
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Nice bite Frogbox ...
though trying to say that a chopped FJ nav is necessarily of comparable ability to a qualified FC somewhat undermines your arguement.
I take it you have got the been there, seen it, done it, tick at Waddington and are now back at the Neat outpost in Norfolk? Or maybe not?
though trying to say that a chopped FJ nav is necessarily of comparable ability to a qualified FC somewhat undermines your arguement.
I take it you have got the been there, seen it, done it, tick at Waddington and are now back at the Neat outpost in Norfolk? Or maybe not?
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SandyPit
In answer to your question - yes they do have their own FC brevet - and to those who may mock - after quite a hard 6-ish month OCU on 23 Sqn.
However the real issue is - I hope you're not planning on getting on E3s any time soon?
As someone that escaped the FC assylum a couple of years ago, I can see a re-run of the situation I was in late90s/early00s - lots of Navs / AEOs in desk jobs but still getting flying pay, so they stuck them down the back of the jet to make them earn their pay.
At a stroke 25% of the surveillance team slots went to rear-seaters overnight. Result lots of unhappy FCs stuck down the east coast waiting for the Ruskies. Can see the same thing happening with the current "re-organisation" when we end up with more aircrews than we can use.
But if that's what you're after, good luck mate, it aint a bad job. Oh and the currys you get on there are pretty decent too!
In answer to your question - yes they do have their own FC brevet - and to those who may mock - after quite a hard 6-ish month OCU on 23 Sqn.
However the real issue is - I hope you're not planning on getting on E3s any time soon?
As someone that escaped the FC assylum a couple of years ago, I can see a re-run of the situation I was in late90s/early00s - lots of Navs / AEOs in desk jobs but still getting flying pay, so they stuck them down the back of the jet to make them earn their pay.
At a stroke 25% of the surveillance team slots went to rear-seaters overnight. Result lots of unhappy FCs stuck down the east coast waiting for the Ruskies. Can see the same thing happening with the current "re-organisation" when we end up with more aircrews than we can use.
But if that's what you're after, good luck mate, it aint a bad job. Oh and the currys you get on there are pretty decent too!
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Nice of you to join us Capt Caveman,
Given that the E3 fleet is trying to go up to approx 15 crews (over the next few years), I would suggest that there are plenty of spare slots available in all crew positions, and I also understand that there are very few volunteers in the system waiting for SO from the ground side .... however if the expected Nav rush materialises
And as for a "hard 6-ish month OCU on 23 Sqn" well maybe that is the case for FC's.
BTW ... are we allowed to call it an OCU (like most other a/c types in the RAF) or does it have to remain as STF/SCC or whatever the current name for it is?
Any comments anyone?
Given that the E3 fleet is trying to go up to approx 15 crews (over the next few years), I would suggest that there are plenty of spare slots available in all crew positions, and I also understand that there are very few volunteers in the system waiting for SO from the ground side .... however if the expected Nav rush materialises
And as for a "hard 6-ish month OCU on 23 Sqn" well maybe that is the case for FC's.
BTW ... are we allowed to call it an OCU (like most other a/c types in the RAF) or does it have to remain as STF/SCC or whatever the current name for it is?
Any comments anyone?
Join Date: Feb 2002
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CC,
"In answer to your question - yes they do have their own FC brevet - and to those who may mock - after quite a hard 6-ish month OCU on 23 Sqn.
6 months to badge...........if only real aircrew could achieve this......to quote Louis Armstrong........What a wonderful World
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
"In answer to your question - yes they do have their own FC brevet - and to those who may mock - after quite a hard 6-ish month OCU on 23 Sqn.
6 months to badge...........if only real aircrew could achieve this......to quote Louis Armstrong........What a wonderful World
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I was always under the impression that a Brevet could only be awarded by a Flying Training School (3 FTS etc..) and as an OCU does not constitute this then FCs do indeed wear flying badges not Brevets.
Knees up Mother Brown!
Knees up Mother Brown!
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I agree with ABIW. If only the real aircrew could get their brevet (cuz that's what ours are!!) in as short a time as a 6 month OCU. Some of us endure 2-3 years to gain fully combat ready and these guys dare say they are up to speed and flying badged in 6 months. Surely this makes a mocury of the whole FTS system??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
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CaptainCaveman,
Whilst I'm not seeking a posting to E3s, there's every possibility that I could be posted there in a few years. Who knows? If I do, then I'll be sure to give you a shout.
Whilst I'm not seeking a posting to E3s, there's every possibility that I could be posted there in a few years. Who knows? If I do, then I'll be sure to give you a shout.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I always considered that the qualification was what people did when we went to war, not what school they went to. It would be interesting to compare the average number of hours of combat experience, involved in wartime ops, of the E-3D force and those at ISK.
I heard much of the same talk, by the way, many years ago from those on the Britannia fleet, and then the V-force.....
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.......
Dylan Thomas
I heard much of the same talk, by the way, many years ago from those on the Britannia fleet, and then the V-force.....
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.......
Dylan Thomas
Join Date: Feb 2004
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ORAC
Are we to deduce that you are yourself one of the controversial flying badge wearers?? You seem to be defending the trade with bravado. I think you'll find that you guys may well have more time
but the boys in ISK don't sit at high level, going round in circles being pre madonna's. The time spent on real ops by the Kipper fleet unfortunately has been done by a minority of the fleet. The Mighty Hunter has more crews than the flying smarty so they individually do spend less time on ops.
Are we to deduce that you are yourself one of the controversial flying badge wearers?? You seem to be defending the trade with bravado. I think you'll find that you guys may well have more time
in live combat operations
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If only the real aircrew could get their brevet (cuz that's what ours are!!) in as short a time as a 6 month OCU. Some of us endure 2-3 years to gain fully combat ready and these guys dare say they are up to speed and flying badged in 6 months. Surely this makes a mocury of the whole FTS system??
What you seem to forget is that comparing the FC 6 month OCU to aircrew full training time is misleading. FC's still have to go through professional training prior to starting their OCU, just like the rest of us. Probably their training isn't as long as real aircrew branches/trades, but then no 2 branches/trades train for exactly the same length of time.
I agree though, FC's wear badges, not brevets
MadMark!!!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
SF, no I'm not. I've never set foot on a UK E-3D and only ever visited Waddo a couple of times. I also retired several years ago. I Just find the continual whinging, carping and criticism from certain quarters both boring and pathetic.
I haven't the experience or expertise to comment and compare the ability, or experience, of the two forces. But I note it is always the ISK guys doing the knocking of other serving RAF personnel, who seem to be fulfilling a vital role, and doing so extremely well.
The end effect is to diminish my respect for the ISK force and increase that of the Waddo force. I'm afraid Sandy and his ilk are doing the reputations of themselves and their fleet no favours here.
I haven't the experience or expertise to comment and compare the ability, or experience, of the two forces. But I note it is always the ISK guys doing the knocking of other serving RAF personnel, who seem to be fulfilling a vital role, and doing so extremely well.
The end effect is to diminish my respect for the ISK force and increase that of the Waddo force. I'm afraid Sandy and his ilk are doing the reputations of themselves and their fleet no favours here.