UK Armed Forces annual pay award
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I 66
I'm annoyed at myself for doing this but,...............who else gets Flying Pay ? apart from Aircrew?
Not all the people doing 8-5 want to be there. Much rather be upside down looking at clouds!
Just another change we are all going to have to get used to, and it could have been a whole lot worse.
Glad I'm not a Teacher,Nurse,Fireman,Policeman even when I am in the office
I'm annoyed at myself for doing this but,...............who else gets Flying Pay ? apart from Aircrew?
Not all the people doing 8-5 want to be there. Much rather be upside down looking at clouds!
Just another change we are all going to have to get used to, and it could have been a whole lot worse.
Glad I'm not a Teacher,Nurse,Fireman,Policeman even when I am in the office
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Barking..
I always understood that flying pay was A
'additional pay' and not specialist pay. Specialist pay is for special duties eg deep sea divers , etc.
Therefore, your extract is hopefully not erlevant to flying pay.
I always understood that flying pay was A
'additional pay' and not specialist pay. Specialist pay is for special duties eg deep sea divers , etc.
Therefore, your extract is hopefully not erlevant to flying pay.
bbx.........who else gets Flying Pay ? apart from Aircrew?
Airborne? Technicians E3's (Ithink)
LTB..........I happily aknowledge the OOA & FRESCO point. I have worked at every line available to me bar one, hopefully that will be my next job.
My posts are not aimed at those who want to do their share but those who clearly do not. I cannot believe you have not encountered at least one or two of those creatures. Quotes like I highlighted before do not sit favourably with me nor should they with you, if MD was fishing well I bit.
For my part I feel that there should be an enforced move for people from units after a maximum time limit, say 5 years and we should be reqiured to plan our lives on that eventuality.
Airborne? Technicians E3's (Ithink)
LTB..........I happily aknowledge the OOA & FRESCO point. I have worked at every line available to me bar one, hopefully that will be my next job.
My posts are not aimed at those who want to do their share but those who clearly do not. I cannot believe you have not encountered at least one or two of those creatures. Quotes like I highlighted before do not sit favourably with me nor should they with you, if MD was fishing well I bit.
For my part I feel that there should be an enforced move for people from units after a maximum time limit, say 5 years and we should be reqiured to plan our lives on that eventuality.
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Unmissable
Like most people I can't seem to keep up with all the changes! I am amazed that this report uses so many words to say so little. JPA seems to mean that all 3 services will have the same pay system. Cynically I believe it won't work as it relies on IT and programmers.
The following paragraph from the report makes me believe that specialist pay is part of additional pay:
"Chapter 4
Specialist Pay, Non-Specialist Pay and Compensatory Allowances
Introduction
4.1 The 1998 Review of Additional Pay established three categories of payment: Specialist Pay; Non-Specialist Pay; and Compensatory Allowances. For this report, only two Additional Pay items were scheduled for periodic review – Mountain Leaders’ and Hydrographic Pay – and our recommendations for these are set out below. In addition, however, as part of MOD’s modernisation of the pay system in preparation for JPA, we received evidence on how Specialist Pay would operate under JPA and the transitional arrangements to take effect from 1 April 2004. "
I got the impression that flying pay will progress annually under JPA in much the same way as Pay 2000 increments do. Maybe it is just a new rate guide and then you jump after qualified service as now. But as with all these recent anouncements there is a hint of what is going to happen but no hard facts.
I could of course be barking up the wrong tree........
Like most people I can't seem to keep up with all the changes! I am amazed that this report uses so many words to say so little. JPA seems to mean that all 3 services will have the same pay system. Cynically I believe it won't work as it relies on IT and programmers.
The following paragraph from the report makes me believe that specialist pay is part of additional pay:
"Chapter 4
Specialist Pay, Non-Specialist Pay and Compensatory Allowances
Introduction
4.1 The 1998 Review of Additional Pay established three categories of payment: Specialist Pay; Non-Specialist Pay; and Compensatory Allowances. For this report, only two Additional Pay items were scheduled for periodic review – Mountain Leaders’ and Hydrographic Pay – and our recommendations for these are set out below. In addition, however, as part of MOD’s modernisation of the pay system in preparation for JPA, we received evidence on how Specialist Pay would operate under JPA and the transitional arrangements to take effect from 1 April 2004. "
I got the impression that flying pay will progress annually under JPA in much the same way as Pay 2000 increments do. Maybe it is just a new rate guide and then you jump after qualified service as now. But as with all these recent anouncements there is a hint of what is going to happen but no hard facts.
I could of course be barking up the wrong tree........
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Additional Pay is broadly what it says it is: any (temporary) pay additional to basic pay and it is not pensionable. Specialist Pay (Pro aircrew, dentists and hydrographers, etc) is augmented basic pay and is therefore is pensionable.
Submarine Pay, Flying Pay, Pay for Work of an Objectional Nature, etc, as temporary payments, are all forms of Additional Pay.
Thefeore, Flying Pay is not on the same spine as Specialist Pay.
Submarine Pay, Flying Pay, Pay for Work of an Objectional Nature, etc, as temporary payments, are all forms of Additional Pay.
Thefeore, Flying Pay is not on the same spine as Specialist Pay.
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Airborne Tech's wholeheartedly deserve their extra pay,for the duration of their FLYING tour,because thats what they get.
Similarly Flying Stewards, Ground Engineers,Aeromeds.
If I'm CAS I will change a few things, but as I've spent a very long time getting this far, I fear that I've peaked.
Most people I work with deserve the pay they get , an awful lot deserve a whole lot more. But on the whole the retention plot is working (except for career Navs) and the spread of cash is to target those most difficult to replace.
The threat of a Ground tour is enough to make SOME people leave.
Everyone(even the military) has a choice,and but one life.I have no issue with any kind of extra pay for anyone,we all deserve at least what we get.
Similarly Flying Stewards, Ground Engineers,Aeromeds.
If I'm CAS I will change a few things, but as I've spent a very long time getting this far, I fear that I've peaked.
Most people I work with deserve the pay they get , an awful lot deserve a whole lot more. But on the whole the retention plot is working (except for career Navs) and the spread of cash is to target those most difficult to replace.
The threat of a Ground tour is enough to make SOME people leave.
Everyone(even the military) has a choice,and but one life.I have no issue with any kind of extra pay for anyone,we all deserve at least what we get.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Boo
I very much agree with your comments. I even agreed with the FC's getting flying pay whilst on E3's. Something that not many of my brethren agreed with!!
If you get the pay you deserve it!!
I very much agree with your comments. I even agreed with the FC's getting flying pay whilst on E3's. Something that not many of my brethren agreed with!!
If you get the pay you deserve it!!
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2.8% is better than nailing a rusty nail through your b******s! And it is more than other public sector workers are going to get. And just think of all those great left wing minority causes that can be given extra money!
Braveheart, you didn't say please
Still having checked my posts to be sure. I never mentioned cutting flying or any other kind of pay. It just seems that I have made my point rather poorly. My gripe is not with any branch/trade but with the attitude that some people have. That attitude of "sit back and let some other mug do it" Is my pet hate.
Removing flying pay for Aircrew on a ground tour would save money but I suspect that very soon there might be a rush for the doors. So I'm against that one. It might make an interesting thread though
Still having checked my posts to be sure. I never mentioned cutting flying or any other kind of pay. It just seems that I have made my point rather poorly. My gripe is not with any branch/trade but with the attitude that some people have. That attitude of "sit back and let some other mug do it" Is my pet hate.
Removing flying pay for Aircrew on a ground tour would save money but I suspect that very soon there might be a rush for the doors. So I'm against that one. It might make an interesting thread though
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Quote:
"But on the whole the retention plot is working (except for career Navs) "
Please expand, I would have thought that Navs would be the first to take the money and stay considering their employability outside!
"But on the whole the retention plot is working (except for career Navs) "
Please expand, I would have thought that Navs would be the first to take the money and stay considering their employability outside!
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There are "some" people in every walk of life. Some get paid more,some less. Some people are a right laugh,some people grip my s***. I drink coffee,beer and talk to the former most of the time and the latter only when I have to. I just let it drift by and appreciate now that not everyone can be as perfect as me. And not everyone is getting 2.8%
(That bit about perfect was a joke!)
Edited because the bit about Navs was also a joke - as soon thats all there will be-all 25000 or whatever the latest number is.
I once flew with one nav who if it wasnt for gravity would never had found earth again.
(That bit about perfect was a joke!)
Edited because the bit about Navs was also a joke - as soon thats all there will be-all 25000 or whatever the latest number is.
I once flew with one nav who if it wasnt for gravity would never had found earth again.
Thread Starter
b_b_x
And what did you do about it, apart from gather material for yet another nav joke? Inform his flight commander, supervisor, nav leader, get him checked out by somebody else with a view to extra training or a chop ride, or just carry on as some pilots do with the 'all navs are c**p' attitude that does everyone a disservice, including the nav in question?
Ah, I was forgetting, navs are just good for jokes.....
And what did you do about it, apart from gather material for yet another nav joke? Inform his flight commander, supervisor, nav leader, get him checked out by somebody else with a view to extra training or a chop ride, or just carry on as some pilots do with the 'all navs are c**p' attitude that does everyone a disservice, including the nav in question?
Ah, I was forgetting, navs are just good for jokes.....
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Unmissable,
Unlike pilots, Navs might not have a ready made job to go out for, however, they have less and less of a reason to stay. I joined as a Pilot, was chopped (might have passed if I'd had all the flex that the girls did at the time but 7 hours was my lot!) but have had a great time as a Nav watching Biggled **** up. The future isn't so bright for young Navs these days!
I've been offered PAS but they can ram it where the sun don't shine - not because I'm bitter, simply that I'm more employable now than in another 5 years time (I'm not naive enough to think my job will last until 55!!)
The smaller the RAF becomes the fewer promotion slots will be available for Navs and the worse the problem will become. The RAF's answer will be that they don't need to retain Navs - partly true but you do need them to join in the first place and retain them for a fair time - If I was offered a job as a Nav today I wouldn't even consider it - there's few long term prospects and for the young guys and galls virtually no prospect beyond 38 - and that's from a Nav.
Unlike pilots, Navs might not have a ready made job to go out for, however, they have less and less of a reason to stay. I joined as a Pilot, was chopped (might have passed if I'd had all the flex that the girls did at the time but 7 hours was my lot!) but have had a great time as a Nav watching Biggled **** up. The future isn't so bright for young Navs these days!
I've been offered PAS but they can ram it where the sun don't shine - not because I'm bitter, simply that I'm more employable now than in another 5 years time (I'm not naive enough to think my job will last until 55!!)
The smaller the RAF becomes the fewer promotion slots will be available for Navs and the worse the problem will become. The RAF's answer will be that they don't need to retain Navs - partly true but you do need them to join in the first place and retain them for a fair time - If I was offered a job as a Nav today I wouldn't even consider it - there's few long term prospects and for the young guys and galls virtually no prospect beyond 38 - and that's from a Nav.
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Dear all,
Are we not all volunteers? Any pay rise (hopefully greater than the infaltion rate!) is welcomed - don't you all do it for the love of the job?
As they say 'Sign on the line, do the time!'.
PS If you voted for Mr T Bliar, its your fault......and someone had to! Bring on the Conservative revolution - Mr Howard and his slim line government for me!!
ISITD
Are we not all volunteers? Any pay rise (hopefully greater than the infaltion rate!) is welcomed - don't you all do it for the love of the job?
As they say 'Sign on the line, do the time!'.
PS If you voted for Mr T Bliar, its your fault......and someone had to! Bring on the Conservative revolution - Mr Howard and his slim line government for me!!
ISITD
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Getting back to the actual detail of the pay award, it was about what I'd hoped for and rather better than I had feared at the worst. I don't think we could realistically have expected any more. However, what is going on with specialist/additional pay? No actual award rates yet published, only the recommended rates in the AFPRB report, which despite the text saying that they were based on the same general per-centage recommendation as basic pay, are actually variable between 6+% and 1% in the NCA bands. And on top of this, the promise of a new standardised banding from 1 Apr 04! The AFPRB and the Government can't even agree on whose idea it was! The report says that the MoD told AFPRB of its intention to introduce this system, which the AFPRB thought was a decent idea in principle and thus recommended it. The Award signal is worded to give the impression that the whole thing was the AFPRBs idea in the first place! Whichever is right, the AFPRB says that the MoD told it that to introduce this system would cause variable per-centage award rates. All very strange, and not a little worrying as they haven't shown us the real detail yet.