Mra4?
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 488
From: The Roman Empire
Gentlemen, it seems to me that this is going the way of the "Sea Jet" thread. We can 'debate' the pros and cons of scrapping/continuing the MRA4 until we are blue in the face, but it is a purely academic exercise on our part. The decision will finally be made by some civil servant/bean counter, and our comments here will not make one iota of difference one way or another.
Still, why let the voice of reason prevail. It normally doesn't, and no doubt like many of my comments, the thread will carry on regardless, totally ignoring my input!
Still, why let the voice of reason prevail. It normally doesn't, and no doubt like many of my comments, the thread will carry on regardless, totally ignoring my input!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
From: Lincs
Mr L,
In none of my posts have I mentioned that the Predators radar capability is applicable to Nimrod tasks. While the RQ-1/MQ-1 Predator has an extremely useful SAR/MTI capability, this overlaps into the Sentinel's role rather than the active sensors of your own beasty.
The main relevence of Predator is in it's passive sensor fits. Indeed, unlike your own platform it has a real time broadband data link enabling customers access to the product directly. I doubt very much if any of your current customers are even familiar with the Predator, let alone seen it's product.
Therefore, my comments stand. UAVs such as Predator can accomplish several of the roles of the MR2/MRA4 more flexibly (in terms of where they can operate from and their more 'discrete' nature), more effectively, and with a considerably reduced logistics footprint.
The only advantage that I can see with Nimrod over an asset such as a Predator type platform is it's ability to climb out of icing, and in it's more rapid transit time. However, Predator B has already overcome the icing/wx issue due to it's far improved altitude performance. Once agin however, let me make it clear that I am referring to the overland environment. A jet powered, manned platform is currently, IMHO, the best option for maritime/Underwater Battlespace Ops.
Regards,
M2
In none of my posts have I mentioned that the Predators radar capability is applicable to Nimrod tasks. While the RQ-1/MQ-1 Predator has an extremely useful SAR/MTI capability, this overlaps into the Sentinel's role rather than the active sensors of your own beasty.
The main relevence of Predator is in it's passive sensor fits. Indeed, unlike your own platform it has a real time broadband data link enabling customers access to the product directly. I doubt very much if any of your current customers are even familiar with the Predator, let alone seen it's product.
Therefore, my comments stand. UAVs such as Predator can accomplish several of the roles of the MR2/MRA4 more flexibly (in terms of where they can operate from and their more 'discrete' nature), more effectively, and with a considerably reduced logistics footprint.
The only advantage that I can see with Nimrod over an asset such as a Predator type platform is it's ability to climb out of icing, and in it's more rapid transit time. However, Predator B has already overcome the icing/wx issue due to it's far improved altitude performance. Once agin however, let me make it clear that I am referring to the overland environment. A jet powered, manned platform is currently, IMHO, the best option for maritime/Underwater Battlespace Ops.
Regards,
M2
Last edited by Magic Mushroom; 5th February 2004 at 07:15.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,397
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Well, not the SR2 Victor, but perhaps the Vulcan SR2 or B2MRR as it became...
Up to 40k-ish, then hours of boredom boat-spotting. Nav radar would look for surface contacts, then read details to co-pilot who had to write them all down plus the time. When there was a quiet bit, Nav team would then attempt to plot all the boats on a chart. This mind-numbingly boring activity would be done in in various patterns, but was pretty much the same. Occasionally you'd be joined by a disposable Canberra with its kamikaze crew; first they had to formate on the Vulcan and update their clockwork nav kit from the Vulcan's (by the nav reading out the Lat and Long..), then they'd rush of to do a 'Lopro' identification of a selected boat, they'd then call back the ident over the RT before they were shot down. Yeah, right.
Or there was 'Selfpro' - this time once the navigators had worked out a suitable target, you descended to low level to try and identify it. Futile but fun...
We absolutely hated this damn boat-spotting. Out on a Cyprus det we were tasked to do a bit, so lumbered around a bit up at 40K spotting Greek fishing boats, then down to low level to chase them. Unfortunately the Secret Squirrels of the MHQ hadn't told us what their ever-so-secret Nimrod MRs were doing; hence charging around at low level with our H2S banging away caused the Sovietski submarine they were shadowing to f*ck off in fine pitch. Our captain was summoned to MHQ, but replied that the crystal ball was a bit cloudy and if the maritime people hadn't told him to keep out of a specific area, then he'd do what he pleased. Later we were chased by an F-14 when we went to have a look at a Spam carrier, intercepted by Italian F-104s when our idiot Nav Plotter's northerly track straight into the Rome FIR from the direction of Libya triggered the Italian QRA.... Our captain thought they were Libyan Floggers, but what would you expect from an ex-Brittania truckie who hadn't the slightest interest in ac recce....
MRR - Nimrod, E-3 or whatever, you're b$oody welcome to it!
Up to 40k-ish, then hours of boredom boat-spotting. Nav radar would look for surface contacts, then read details to co-pilot who had to write them all down plus the time. When there was a quiet bit, Nav team would then attempt to plot all the boats on a chart. This mind-numbingly boring activity would be done in in various patterns, but was pretty much the same. Occasionally you'd be joined by a disposable Canberra with its kamikaze crew; first they had to formate on the Vulcan and update their clockwork nav kit from the Vulcan's (by the nav reading out the Lat and Long..), then they'd rush of to do a 'Lopro' identification of a selected boat, they'd then call back the ident over the RT before they were shot down. Yeah, right.
Or there was 'Selfpro' - this time once the navigators had worked out a suitable target, you descended to low level to try and identify it. Futile but fun...
We absolutely hated this damn boat-spotting. Out on a Cyprus det we were tasked to do a bit, so lumbered around a bit up at 40K spotting Greek fishing boats, then down to low level to chase them. Unfortunately the Secret Squirrels of the MHQ hadn't told us what their ever-so-secret Nimrod MRs were doing; hence charging around at low level with our H2S banging away caused the Sovietski submarine they were shadowing to f*ck off in fine pitch. Our captain was summoned to MHQ, but replied that the crystal ball was a bit cloudy and if the maritime people hadn't told him to keep out of a specific area, then he'd do what he pleased. Later we were chased by an F-14 when we went to have a look at a Spam carrier, intercepted by Italian F-104s when our idiot Nav Plotter's northerly track straight into the Rome FIR from the direction of Libya triggered the Italian QRA.... Our captain thought they were Libyan Floggers, but what would you expect from an ex-Brittania truckie who hadn't the slightest interest in ac recce....
MRR - Nimrod, E-3 or whatever, you're b$oody welcome to it!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,627
Likes: 7,333
From: Peripatetic
The Australians have decided it's the way ahead: The Australian
Yes, Him
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex, UK
it has a real time broadband data link enabling customers access to the product directly.
Coo, just like tesco.com.
Perhaps the new recruiting ad. is v. subtle.
How about Enhanced Brand Loyalty as newspeak for inter-fleet banter?
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 496
Likes: 1
From: Scotland
Beagle - that's why I didn't go into the Victor SR2 MRR profile. Same radar as yours, I believe, and all it could do was classify "Small, Medium or Large" targets from, as you say, high level. Searchwater much more capable, but I'll say no more.
BTW I was also one of your "Kamikaze Canberra Pilots" - wonderful fun provided you didn't take it seriously!
BTW I was also one of your "Kamikaze Canberra Pilots" - wonderful fun provided you didn't take it seriously!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: A 1/2 World away from Ice Statio Kilo
M2
You know very little about my surveillance platform and its capabilities, whilst once I used to stomp around Elgin I am no longer expelled to the far reaches of Jockistan, I guess you just assumed.
Keep listening to the very interesting and unbalanced Powerpoint briefs, you would not want to tell of your shortcomings with a few contracts on the line would you?
Computers and technology help the sophisticated hunter to go about his business overland or water. A platform run by the Nerd Herd will be limited to their roles and flexibility but as long as the combat situation is not fluid all will be well I guess.
I would be very happy for a robot to do my job as long as I still get the doughnuts.
Charlie sends
You know very little about my surveillance platform and its capabilities, whilst once I used to stomp around Elgin I am no longer expelled to the far reaches of Jockistan, I guess you just assumed.
Keep listening to the very interesting and unbalanced Powerpoint briefs, you would not want to tell of your shortcomings with a few contracts on the line would you?
Computers and technology help the sophisticated hunter to go about his business overland or water. A platform run by the Nerd Herd will be limited to their roles and flexibility but as long as the combat situation is not fluid all will be well I guess.
I would be very happy for a robot to do my job as long as I still get the doughnuts.
Charlie sends
