New Tankers for RAF
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I noticed that too, nothing has actually been signed just a decision on who to deal with. Now the real argy bargy starts - the price!!!
Of course with all these different studies going on at the mo your average taxpayer civvy might well ask why, if we are going to end up with a much smaller RAF in terms of mud movers et al, do we actually need to have a substantial AAR capability?
Interesting 6 months ahead me thinks, now where is that Banana?
Of course with all these different studies going on at the mo your average taxpayer civvy might well ask why, if we are going to end up with a much smaller RAF in terms of mud movers et al, do we actually need to have a substantial AAR capability?
Interesting 6 months ahead me thinks, now where is that Banana?
You know there is gonna be tongue. They don't call it French kissing for nothing.
Always wondered who you disliked more, frogs or septics (that is the in word isn't it)
Oh yeah the American I was thinking of is Halle Berry. Beer belly is a subjective term.
Always wondered who you disliked more, frogs or septics (that is the in word isn't it)
Oh yeah the American I was thinking of is Halle Berry. Beer belly is a subjective term.
Westie,
Oh if its Halle Berry, then US every time. Or Bridget Fonda, or Sandra Bullock, or..... American women over French every time for me. (I like 'em clean and well groomed....)
And I'd take a P-3 over an Atlantique, an F-16 over a Mirage 2000, or an F-15E over a Rafale.
But I wouldn't shout "If it ain't a Boeing I ain't going". I saw the appalling bollocks in the Smithsonian magazine whingeing about Airbus aircraft but would sooner trust Airbus and the supposed issues over tailfins and FBW controls than Boeing with it's history of rudder problems and exploding fuel tanks........
It's not anti-Americanism to prefer the A330 (or the A310, come to that) over the B767, it's down to it being a better aircraft for the job. If only Boing hadn't made it the wrong cabin cross section, and quite so small...... or if only they'd had a short 777 tanker to offer.
Oh if its Halle Berry, then US every time. Or Bridget Fonda, or Sandra Bullock, or..... American women over French every time for me. (I like 'em clean and well groomed....)
And I'd take a P-3 over an Atlantique, an F-16 over a Mirage 2000, or an F-15E over a Rafale.
But I wouldn't shout "If it ain't a Boeing I ain't going". I saw the appalling bollocks in the Smithsonian magazine whingeing about Airbus aircraft but would sooner trust Airbus and the supposed issues over tailfins and FBW controls than Boeing with it's history of rudder problems and exploding fuel tanks........
It's not anti-Americanism to prefer the A330 (or the A310, come to that) over the B767, it's down to it being a better aircraft for the job. If only Boing hadn't made it the wrong cabin cross section, and quite so small...... or if only they'd had a short 777 tanker to offer.
Well yes, Roly. As well you know the competiton was to identify a preferred bidder at this stage, there is still the Public Sector Comparator assessment to be concluded.
But can you really see El Gordo
Brown being persuaded to open his purse when there's a company already offering to provide the service for no public sector cost?
But can you really see El Gordo
Brown being persuaded to open his purse when there's a company already offering to provide the service for no public sector cost?
But can you really see El Gordo Brown being persuaded to open his purse when there's a company already offering to provide the service for no public sector cost?
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: **VN
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice to have some news on FSTA at last... a decision to standby to negotiate over the next decision.
A couple of points which Beags might be able to answer for me. I've been away from Brize so am a little out of touch on thinking regards the proximity issue. I noticed that there are lots of nice pictures of the proximity trials, however, I have yet to see one with the recievers in a likely pre contact position for pods on the outboard engine mounts as advertised.
Won't those Trent 700s, a few cm from the Typhoons' wingtips, cause a bit more problem that we are led to believe? Show me a picture of a reciever 12 metres astern of the correct hardpoint and I will be convinced, half a league astern of the wingtip is just loose formation.
I would hate to think we've gone for the unproven solution.
A couple of points which Beags might be able to answer for me. I've been away from Brize so am a little out of touch on thinking regards the proximity issue. I noticed that there are lots of nice pictures of the proximity trials, however, I have yet to see one with the recievers in a likely pre contact position for pods on the outboard engine mounts as advertised.
Won't those Trent 700s, a few cm from the Typhoons' wingtips, cause a bit more problem that we are led to believe? Show me a picture of a reciever 12 metres astern of the correct hardpoint and I will be convinced, half a league astern of the wingtip is just loose formation.
I would hate to think we've gone for the unproven solution.
sangio' - OK, make that 'no significant public sector capital investment risk'. Sorry.
MaxR8, I have no more information about the prox trials than you'll have seen at www.airtanker.co.uk .
As for clearance between jet core and hoses, here are my calcs:
Boeing 767: 11.8 m
A310MRTT: 10.6 m
A330MRTT: 10.2 m
.....all of which compare rather favourably with the 6 m of the
KC135! Semi-span of the TypHoon is considerbaly less than 10.2m, there'll be rather more than 'a few cm clearance'! Somehow I don't think that 1.6 m less clearance than the B767 is going to make much difference on A330.
When we first started prodding against the Vulcan, many of us F4 drivers thought that the delta wing would cause all sorts of turbulence. Turned out to be bull$hit - much more comfortable than prodding against the Victor.
Welcome back to British West Oxfordshire, by the way. Are you sure it was a good idea....??
MaxR8, I have no more information about the prox trials than you'll have seen at www.airtanker.co.uk .
As for clearance between jet core and hoses, here are my calcs:
Boeing 767: 11.8 m
A310MRTT: 10.6 m
A330MRTT: 10.2 m
.....all of which compare rather favourably with the 6 m of the
KC135! Semi-span of the TypHoon is considerbaly less than 10.2m, there'll be rather more than 'a few cm clearance'! Somehow I don't think that 1.6 m less clearance than the B767 is going to make much difference on A330.
When we first started prodding against the Vulcan, many of us F4 drivers thought that the delta wing would cause all sorts of turbulence. Turned out to be bull$hit - much more comfortable than prodding against the Victor.
Welcome back to British West Oxfordshire, by the way. Are you sure it was a good idea....??
Jacko
You know what celebs think of the press, you may be out of luck. I'll let you know how it went.
If you travel on business or pleasure and find its a Boeing, do you fly or re-book as to ensure your safety on a Airbus?
You know what celebs think of the press, you may be out of luck. I'll let you know how it went.
If you travel on business or pleasure and find its a Boeing, do you fly or re-book as to ensure your safety on a Airbus?
Well, Westie, my next overseas trip is outbound on A321 then A319, inbound on an ATR72, then CRJ 700. And yes, if ever there's a 737 scheduled on a flight I'm due to take, I always see if there's an alternative route. I get that "How much did Boeing really admit to about the rudder hard-over problem" feeling - I just don't get a nice warm feeling about the ethics of Mr B anymore. Sorry.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: YES
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its still a defence contract and its still British aerospace..
I am well aware of constant mind changing at the Mod and international consortia causing many of the delays but go to your nearest QM's and draw a sense of humour.
I am well aware of constant mind changing at the Mod and international consortia causing many of the delays but go to your nearest QM's and draw a sense of humour.
I used to prefer a 747 across the pond - for its four engines. Now I don't have that preference. I like the 777 if someone else is playing, but the back end weaves and the cabin air quality is poor so I'd prefer other types if I'm going cattle class. Generally if I find I'm on a 'Bus I think 'oh an Airbus, good', so it's a preference, and no more.
And I'd sooner fly Boeing than Tupolev.......
And I'd sooner fly Boeing than Tupolev.......
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Back in Blighty...
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Echo 5!
No, I'm not Boeing.
I am actually sympathetic with the technical guys at BAE as they are generally a good bunch but (seemingly) have been led up s**t creek by a BS obsessed management, concerned with anything but the product - e.g. "innovating for a safer world" - geez! Just check out their website......no don't bother.
From what I hear the Airbus side is pretty slick, I thought my juvenile sugar-in-the-tank remark was a fitting response to the previous 'BWoS f**k it up - yet again' remark.
Apologies to all if the satire didn't work.
No, I'm not Boeing.
I am actually sympathetic with the technical guys at BAE as they are generally a good bunch but (seemingly) have been led up s**t creek by a BS obsessed management, concerned with anything but the product - e.g. "innovating for a safer world" - geez! Just check out their website......no don't bother.
From what I hear the Airbus side is pretty slick, I thought my juvenile sugar-in-the-tank remark was a fitting response to the previous 'BWoS f**k it up - yet again' remark.
Apologies to all if the satire didn't work.
Beagle
First leg is on the 321 huh. Its roughly equal to the 757 in capacity. Tell me which aircraft you would rather blow a motor in at V1 in mountainous terrain on a hot day at max gross.
Jacko
Go down to the fire department and borrow the jaws of life and pry open your wallet. That way you can go 1st class
First leg is on the 321 huh. Its roughly equal to the 757 in capacity. Tell me which aircraft you would rather blow a motor in at V1 in mountainous terrain on a hot day at max gross.
Jacko
Go down to the fire department and borrow the jaws of life and pry open your wallet. That way you can go 1st class
Westie,
Neither, thanks. Well, OK, A321 if you insist. Beacuse as long as the crew will let it, it'll compenate by itself. Whereas if you lose the motor at V1 plus 1 knot in the 757, there'll still be a fair bit of old-fashioned stick and rudder work needed. That takes more skill then it does in the 321; hence there's probably a greater skill margin than in the 757? You might get a slightly better view of the mountains in the 321, but at least they'll be in the right place!
Did like your 'jaws of life' comment - but Jacko will have to sell quite a few stories to be able to pay for 1st Class
Neither, thanks. Well, OK, A321 if you insist. Beacuse as long as the crew will let it, it'll compenate by itself. Whereas if you lose the motor at V1 plus 1 knot in the 757, there'll still be a fair bit of old-fashioned stick and rudder work needed. That takes more skill then it does in the 321; hence there's probably a greater skill margin than in the 757? You might get a slightly better view of the mountains in the 321, but at least they'll be in the right place!
Did like your 'jaws of life' comment - but Jacko will have to sell quite a few stories to be able to pay for 1st Class
Fair enuff.
I however will take the aircraft that I think has the best chance of flying it out. The Boeing that is. I'm the first to admit the 320 series is better than the 737 in many aspects if not the majority of them. That however doesn't condemn the rest of the family.
I however will take the aircraft that I think has the best chance of flying it out. The Boeing that is. I'm the first to admit the 320 series is better than the 737 in many aspects if not the majority of them. That however doesn't condemn the rest of the family.
Rebel PPRuNer
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
Age: 51
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jacko says
Didn't stop them taking an "Airbus Concorde" I see...
I saw the appalling bollocks in the Smithsonian magazine whingeing about Airbus aircraft
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: forward of zone19
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please rememember while we are all patting beagles back that this contract reprisents yet another shinking of military manpower in the serving forces. Now that the withdrawal off military support has turned the Cyprus Scorpion squadron into a paper tiger surley this will happan to the tanker fleet.
Which licenced engineer would turn down a us$80,000 job to get dicked around like a serviceman. I have seen how it works when you have civilians in a first line enviroment and I can tell you good faith on the civvie engineers only goes so far, then you have to pay.
At the end of the day dicisions have to be made; do you want a military force or a mercinary team looking after the nations assets. If its the latter then I hope that future crews will enjoy being talked down to by licensed professional whilst trying to snag there areoplane. In the land off the G plate they are top dog and you are are military wannabe. Enjoy the future.
Which licenced engineer would turn down a us$80,000 job to get dicked around like a serviceman. I have seen how it works when you have civilians in a first line enviroment and I can tell you good faith on the civvie engineers only goes so far, then you have to pay.
At the end of the day dicisions have to be made; do you want a military force or a mercinary team looking after the nations assets. If its the latter then I hope that future crews will enjoy being talked down to by licensed professional whilst trying to snag there areoplane. In the land off the G plate they are top dog and you are are military wannabe. Enjoy the future.
BEagle - A couple of years back you were complaining about the A330 in the tanker role. I seem to remember something about flight control laws being mentioned. What has happened to make you a supporter now?