New Tankers for RAF
Apart from the CF and GAF who are modifying their A310s into A310 MRTT and CC150T multi-role tanker-transports, who are the other 2 air forces you think have Airbus tankers, GrantT?
And yes, it is indeed excellent news!
Perhaps the RAAF and FAF will soon be on the phone to Toulouse?
And yes, it is indeed excellent news!
Perhaps the RAAF and FAF will soon be on the phone to Toulouse?
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Before everyone gets too carried away with the thought of around 18 shiny Airbus tankers sitting on the line with roundels akimbo it is worth remembering that whoever won the contract the aircraft would remain their property. I believe that means the RAF will be allocated just enough aircraft each day to meet the pre-agreed contractual tasking, all other frames will be at the beck and call of the contractor and if the RAF want more they will have to pay extra and may have to join the queue with the bucket and spade trade. It could end up in a more complex situation than that in force with the C17, only time will tell. The only good thing about the decision is that at last it has been made.
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These are the Air Forces I thought were going to get the Airbus tankers/conversions:
RAF
Canadian
Luftwaffe
Spanish
French
Maybe I shouldn't get confused with transports and tankers.
RAF
Canadian
Luftwaffe
Spanish
French
Maybe I shouldn't get confused with transports and tankers.
Ah - see what you mean now.
A310 MRTT: CF and GAF
A330 MRTT: RAF
A310 Transports: CF, FAF, GAF and Spanish AF.
Known potential A330 MRTT cutomers: FAF and RAAF......and even, possibly, the USAF?
Art Field, my commiserations to Keith A-J, John B et al. at TTSC. But I do think that on a strictly platform v. platform playing field and ignoring politics, the A330's extra capability must have had some bearing on the decision. Not fitting the extended centre tanks or an AR probe to the 767 and limiting it to 73.5 tonnes was a bit of a mistake.
Regarding the number of A330s available to the RAF, you are undoubtedly correct. HM will need to have some skilful contracts in place to augment the number every time the sate of tension increases. But perhaps the demand for civil airline seats is inversely proportional to the state of tension in any case?
I wonder what'll happen to the bmi Malvinas trooping contract once the PFI negotiations are concluded, assuming that AirTanker does get the ultimate PFI go-ahead.....? A quick paint job, I would bet!
A310 MRTT: CF and GAF
A330 MRTT: RAF
A310 Transports: CF, FAF, GAF and Spanish AF.
Known potential A330 MRTT cutomers: FAF and RAAF......and even, possibly, the USAF?
Art Field, my commiserations to Keith A-J, John B et al. at TTSC. But I do think that on a strictly platform v. platform playing field and ignoring politics, the A330's extra capability must have had some bearing on the decision. Not fitting the extended centre tanks or an AR probe to the 767 and limiting it to 73.5 tonnes was a bit of a mistake.
Regarding the number of A330s available to the RAF, you are undoubtedly correct. HM will need to have some skilful contracts in place to augment the number every time the sate of tension increases. But perhaps the demand for civil airline seats is inversely proportional to the state of tension in any case?
I wonder what'll happen to the bmi Malvinas trooping contract once the PFI negotiations are concluded, assuming that AirTanker does get the ultimate PFI go-ahead.....? A quick paint job, I would bet!
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I wonder if British waste of space can screw this one up as well?
I mean they build the wings which will have to be modified for Tanker pods lights etc. So shall we start a book on how long they can delay the project
I mean they build the wings which will have to be modified for Tanker pods lights etc. So shall we start a book on how long they can delay the project
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I wonder if British waste of space can screw this one up as well?
I mean they build the wings which will have to be modified for Tanker pods lights etc. So shall we start a book on how long they can delay the project
I mean they build the wings which will have to be modified for Tanker pods lights etc. So shall we start a book on how long they can delay the project
fesc - I am not connected in any way to the 'Airbus bid' of AirTanker (except as an enthusiastic supporter). My 'Airbus' work is as a part-time consultant on Konsortium fur MRTT, the A310 programme for the CF/GAF.
Perhaps unsurprisingly my TV has had Bloomberg on in the background today in anticipation of this important announcement which was widely expected. Most of my work I do on a PC; always-on ASDL means the not infrequent dipping into PPRuNe between hourly-paid work periods is quite straightforward, since you seem to be so keen to know what I do.
Back to the thread. To see AirTanker's press release, go to: http://www.airtanker.co.uk/airtanker...tanker50.shtml .
Converting the A330 wing to take AR pods is a relatively straightforward design problem; they will be mounted on the outboard pylons hardpoints which exist on all A330/340 wings - they'll go where the A340 has its outboard engines! Neat engineering solution. A310MRTT, A330MRTT and A400M will probably use a common FRL 32-907 AR pod design - all of which is indeed good news for the European aerospace industry.
Perhaps unsurprisingly my TV has had Bloomberg on in the background today in anticipation of this important announcement which was widely expected. Most of my work I do on a PC; always-on ASDL means the not infrequent dipping into PPRuNe between hourly-paid work periods is quite straightforward, since you seem to be so keen to know what I do.
Back to the thread. To see AirTanker's press release, go to: http://www.airtanker.co.uk/airtanker...tanker50.shtml .
Converting the A330 wing to take AR pods is a relatively straightforward design problem; they will be mounted on the outboard pylons hardpoints which exist on all A330/340 wings - they'll go where the A340 has its outboard engines! Neat engineering solution. A310MRTT, A330MRTT and A400M will probably use a common FRL 32-907 AR pod design - all of which is indeed good news for the European aerospace industry.
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Nurse
BWoS will indeed build the wings. Luckily the A330 shares the same wing as the A340, the only difference being the redundant outboard engine mountings points will be used for the pods, thus removing any additional structural "Modification" in its construction. Any mods required from a refuelling point of view should all be taken care of by Cobham. BEagle will correct me if wrong
Congratulations to AirTanker. Lets hope that the deliverables are achieved on time and budget, and give the whole of the defence industry something to aspire too!
Ah.... BEags got there before me!
BWoS will indeed build the wings. Luckily the A330 shares the same wing as the A340, the only difference being the redundant outboard engine mountings points will be used for the pods, thus removing any additional structural "Modification" in its construction. Any mods required from a refuelling point of view should all be taken care of by Cobham. BEagle will correct me if wrong
Congratulations to AirTanker. Lets hope that the deliverables are achieved on time and budget, and give the whole of the defence industry something to aspire too!
Ah.... BEags got there before me!
Will it be a 3-point hose unit or just wing-podded?
If only the latter when are they going to look at a Tactical Tanker option?
If only the latter when are they going to look at a Tactical Tanker option?
A number of A330 tankers will be 3-point hose-and-drogue tankers.
As for tactical AR, particularly for helicopters, Sir might be interested to know that the A400M Common Standard Aircraft has to be capable of being re-roled into the AR role in less than a day. Extra cargo bay tanks can be fitted, but with those on board it doesn't leave much grunt space!
A330 MRTT 111 tonnes of fuel
A310 MRTT 72 tonnes of fuel
A400M (2 x CBT) 62.1 tonnes of fuel
A400M (1 x CBT) 56.4 tonnes of fuel
A400M ( Basic ac) 50.6 tonnes of fuel
And some lucky lads and lasses currently going through ME training will have the fun of flying them! Enjoy!
Hi Westie! At a guess I'd say the European A330 MRTT will fly first. Incidentally, our A310MRTT has already flown, shall be casting an eye over her this week.
As for tactical AR, particularly for helicopters, Sir might be interested to know that the A400M Common Standard Aircraft has to be capable of being re-roled into the AR role in less than a day. Extra cargo bay tanks can be fitted, but with those on board it doesn't leave much grunt space!
A330 MRTT 111 tonnes of fuel
A310 MRTT 72 tonnes of fuel
A400M (2 x CBT) 62.1 tonnes of fuel
A400M (1 x CBT) 56.4 tonnes of fuel
A400M ( Basic ac) 50.6 tonnes of fuel
And some lucky lads and lasses currently going through ME training will have the fun of flying them! Enjoy!
Hi Westie! At a guess I'd say the European A330 MRTT will fly first. Incidentally, our A310MRTT has already flown, shall be casting an eye over her this week.
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emitex/NURSE,
I would suggest that you don't know WTF you are talking about.
It so happens that BWoS perform pretty well on the Airbus manufacturing side,probably because they don't have to contend with the Government moving the goalposts every few days.
If you want to have a dig that's fine but get your facts straight first.
emitex, I note that you live in the U.S. - not with Boeing are you ?
I would suggest that you don't know WTF you are talking about.
It so happens that BWoS perform pretty well on the Airbus manufacturing side,probably because they don't have to contend with the Government moving the goalposts every few days.
If you want to have a dig that's fine but get your facts straight first.
emitex, I note that you live in the U.S. - not with Boeing are you ?
Ah yes.... roger that, the European plane..gotcha.
How much content is US made in the basic A330? Or rather non European made?
If you had a gun to your head and was told you had these three options, what would you do?
A) Kiss a Frenchman and shout viva la France
B) Kiss an Americans beer belly and shout "if it aint Boeing, I aint going"
C) Pull the trigger
How much content is US made in the basic A330? Or rather non European made?
If you had a gun to your head and was told you had these three options, what would you do?
A) Kiss a Frenchman and shout viva la France
B) Kiss an Americans beer belly and shout "if it aint Boeing, I aint going"
C) Pull the trigger
Westie,
Not B) - he might ask for other favo(u)rs whilst I'm down on my knees.....
Not C) - no point really.
Probably A) - so long as there were no tongues involved! But I'd say "Vive la France" rather than 'viva' in order to avoid offence. The we'd have a couple of glasses of cognac and take the pi$$ out of the fat Yank's beer belly!
Not B) - he might ask for other favo(u)rs whilst I'm down on my knees.....
Not C) - no point really.
Probably A) - so long as there were no tongues involved! But I'd say "Vive la France" rather than 'viva' in order to avoid offence. The we'd have a couple of glasses of cognac and take the pi$$ out of the fat Yank's beer belly!
Chaps
I don't wish to sound pessimistic but.......
I suggest a look at the full announcement before popping too many more champagne corks (sadly all I could find was at):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html
If the link doesn't work the salient section is:
Mr Hoon said the MoD would now hold "single bidder negotiations" with the European consortium aimed at concluding a PFI contract as soon as possible.
"A final decision on whether or not to proceed with a PFI contract will not be taken until these have been satisfactorily concluded," he said.
So no actual winner yet then!!
I don't wish to sound pessimistic but.......
I suggest a look at the full announcement before popping too many more champagne corks (sadly all I could find was at):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html
If the link doesn't work the salient section is:
Mr Hoon said the MoD would now hold "single bidder negotiations" with the European consortium aimed at concluding a PFI contract as soon as possible.
"A final decision on whether or not to proceed with a PFI contract will not be taken until these have been satisfactorily concluded," he said.
So no actual winner yet then!!
