Combat Pilot on BBC2
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Meldrew
That's the man. I expect someone round here will tell us what happened to him.
Flarkey
My Flight Commander at Cranwell was a 'Creamy'. He graduated a couple of months before I arrived. Thought he was God's gift to IOT, but didn't realise one of the guys on the flight knew him from a 'previous life' when he had been banned from one of the sqns at Bruggen. Said flight commander was definitely:
'someone little liked or trusted'!
Not that I am bitter you understand ...
That's the man. I expect someone round here will tell us what happened to him.
Flarkey
My Flight Commander at Cranwell was a 'Creamy'. He graduated a couple of months before I arrived. Thought he was God's gift to IOT, but didn't realise one of the guys on the flight knew him from a 'previous life' when he had been banned from one of the sqns at Bruggen. Said flight commander was definitely:
'someone little liked or trusted'!
Not that I am bitter you understand ...
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I have been led to believe recently that the RAF has a back log of pilots and can pick and choose at their leisure the future aviators from OASC. However last nigth they stated that the 'RAF is desperate for pilots' and more tellingly the production and airing of the program alone suggests the RAF is actively trying to recruit more pilots. Any ideas which one is correct?
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SirToppam....the word W@nker appears on page 127, sad muppet that I am, in the context of 'you are not going to go to war with a w@nker on your wing'...an excellent comment made by Dan Walmsley. 
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Flarkey
You may be interested to hear that it is ONLY in the FJ world that the elite band of filthy creamie instructors are employed. As for having one tour under your belt; that is in fact considered not a fast track, but the norm these days for non creamies arriving to instruct at Valley.
Quote;
"What ever happened to instructors having experience and passing it onto the students? "
As for having "experience", yes I do agree that credibility could be an issue to contend, but luckily most are gifted and professional enough to realize and offset this with their ability and empathy-perhaps the raison d'etre for having Creamie QFIs in the first place? Also, where does front line experience help in pattering Blogssy through an incipient stall set up? Elementary Watson, maybe, but the era of creamies started many a year ago and injecting some youth(and without doubt sheer talent) into the system has obviously worked thus far. Bo.
You may be interested to hear that it is ONLY in the FJ world that the elite band of filthy creamie instructors are employed. As for having one tour under your belt; that is in fact considered not a fast track, but the norm these days for non creamies arriving to instruct at Valley.
Quote;
"What ever happened to instructors having experience and passing it onto the students? "
As for having "experience", yes I do agree that credibility could be an issue to contend, but luckily most are gifted and professional enough to realize and offset this with their ability and empathy-perhaps the raison d'etre for having Creamie QFIs in the first place? Also, where does front line experience help in pattering Blogssy through an incipient stall set up? Elementary Watson, maybe, but the era of creamies started many a year ago and injecting some youth(and without doubt sheer talent) into the system has obviously worked thus far. Bo.
Last edited by barotraumatizer; 18th May 2004 at 15:24.
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However last nigth they stated that the 'RAF is desperate for pilots' and more tellingly the production and airing of the program alone suggests the RAF is actively trying to recruit more pilots. Any ideas which one is correct?
I love watching this program. Downside is, I always come away feeling depressed that I didn't apply myself. Too old now
What was that quote? "The only real failure in life is failure to try." That came as a slap in the face! 
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Flarkey
The RAF has used creamies for a long time 40 plus years to my knowledge. They are students who have done exceptionally well and which their experienced instructors also see as having instructional potential. They are then faced with the rigours of a CFS course. If they do well again at CFS they will get posted as instructors. Young and very current in all manner of flying training issues (their own as well as the services) they usually make excellent instructors. Inexperienced in some operational squadron matters yes. But inexperienced in flying training - no way.
The RAF has used creamies for a long time 40 plus years to my knowledge. They are students who have done exceptionally well and which their experienced instructors also see as having instructional potential. They are then faced with the rigours of a CFS course. If they do well again at CFS they will get posted as instructors. Young and very current in all manner of flying training issues (their own as well as the services) they usually make excellent instructors. Inexperienced in some operational squadron matters yes. But inexperienced in flying training - no way.
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So what happened to John McCrea then ?
anyone know ?
Combat pilot is quite watchable but I still enjoyed Fighter Pilot better..... probably because it reminded me of my time at OASC !!
I remember Wing Cdr Gordon Massie quite well - he was one of the boarding officers during my time
Arc
anyone know ?
Combat pilot is quite watchable but I still enjoyed Fighter Pilot better..... probably because it reminded me of my time at OASC !!
I remember Wing Cdr Gordon Massie quite well - he was one of the boarding officers during my time
Arc
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Creamies?
I completely agree with John F on the issue of Creamies. I've flown with a few once they joined op squadrons for their second tours and to a man they have been among the most talented. Pleased to say I've helped the odd one or two on their way to greater things - if you count getting out of the cockpit and sitting behind a desk 'greater'.
I'll get my coat!
I completely agree with John F on the issue of Creamies. I've flown with a few once they joined op squadrons for their second tours and to a man they have been among the most talented. Pleased to say I've helped the odd one or two on their way to greater things - if you count getting out of the cockpit and sitting behind a desk 'greater'.
I'll get my coat!
Matt Fleet.
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"Creamies"
Rather an unfortunate tag for an attractive young lady, I thought!
J Farley is right to point out the system has been used for at least 50 years. I was creamed off No 28 (Meteor) conversion course at Driffield in Novemeber 1951 onto No 135 Course at CFS.
I then did two years as a QFI at No 205 AFS, Middleton St George (Teese side International!) before going out to 208 in Egypt as a Flight Commander.
I do not think the system is ideal as the QFI ought to be able to pass on to his students, in addition to flying skills, much of the culture of military flying in the form of anecdotes, mythology and "folk music" (!) etc etc. But in my days the sytem was forced onto FTC by the unwillingness of the the operational commands to give up experienced pilots to go to CFS. Anyway, I do not think I did anyone any actual damage. Indeed at the 208 dinner last year I met one of my earliest students, a national service pilot who eventually became an aeronautical engineer and a director of BWOS.
At the OCU (Stradishall) I had a fair bit of catching up to do - battle formation, gunnery and basic tactics, and on the squadron I had a bit of a credibility problem initially, but soon overcame that.
J Farley is right to point out the system has been used for at least 50 years. I was creamed off No 28 (Meteor) conversion course at Driffield in Novemeber 1951 onto No 135 Course at CFS.
I then did two years as a QFI at No 205 AFS, Middleton St George (Teese side International!) before going out to 208 in Egypt as a Flight Commander.
I do not think the system is ideal as the QFI ought to be able to pass on to his students, in addition to flying skills, much of the culture of military flying in the form of anecdotes, mythology and "folk music" (!) etc etc. But in my days the sytem was forced onto FTC by the unwillingness of the the operational commands to give up experienced pilots to go to CFS. Anyway, I do not think I did anyone any actual damage. Indeed at the 208 dinner last year I met one of my earliest students, a national service pilot who eventually became an aeronautical engineer and a director of BWOS.
At the OCU (Stradishall) I had a fair bit of catching up to do - battle formation, gunnery and basic tactics, and on the squadron I had a bit of a credibility problem initially, but soon overcame that.
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No Henry, "Stuttering Mac" had recently left but his reputation lingered! Did he not fly around in a Meatbox bouncing students who were struggling with battle formation? When he got in close in their Six he would start transmitting "... Red Section Pull your f-f-f-f-f-uc*ing f-f-f-f-ingers out , I'm right up your f-f-f-f-f-fuc*ing jacksies." (Or similar). 
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Just checked my grandfathers log books; he was a creamie in 1943 at Kumalo, which I think was in Rhodesia flying Tiger Moths, Harvards and Oxfords. He also has a flight every month or so in a Hurricane which was obviously the instructors toy!
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Creamies
The current Creamie system was brought back in at Valley as a result of the shortage of ex front liners available to do a QFI tour around '97. Not sure I agree with the system on the grounds of credibilty and experience, but I have worked alongside said creamies and they generally do a sound job. Some good guys, some not so good, and the odd really arrogant guy with a disproportionate belief in his own abilities. A neccessary 'evil', but good or bad they are with us for the foreseeable, and are generally a professional bunch.
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FV. I was told that was just one of the many stories about him.
On another occasion in the depths of a bitterly cold winter he walked into a student crew room and found they had somehow worked up a fug so thick it could be cut with a knife.
"Ggggget out fffffffffffuc*ing ssssssside" he screamed.
A short while later a visitor,who had popped in for a refuel, was taxing past the crewroom and wondering why they had dragged all the chairs outside and were sitting there in the snow watching the flying.
On another occasion in the depths of a bitterly cold winter he walked into a student crew room and found they had somehow worked up a fug so thick it could be cut with a knife.
"Ggggget out fffffffffffuc*ing ssssssside" he screamed.
A short while later a visitor,who had popped in for a refuel, was taxing past the crewroom and wondering why they had dragged all the chairs outside and were sitting there in the snow watching the flying.
John McCrea did a Bucc. tour after the BBC series, then went through CFS in the mid-80's training as a Jet Provost QFI, ending up at one of the Vale of York FTS's.
Don't know what happened to him after that, do know the BBC did a pretty good hatchet job on him, his colleagues and his QFIs though.
Wiggy
Don't know what happened to him after that, do know the BBC did a pretty good hatchet job on him, his colleagues and his QFIs though.
Wiggy
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Just a few points to clear up:
barotraumatizer: "Also, where does front line experience help in pattering Blogssy through an incipient stall set up?"
We teach more than incipient stall set ups at Valley!
All the creamies are serving on 208 Sqn which teaches all the FJ Advanced Flying Training. All the present creamies are very professional and, once they have completed their tour, go on to be very successful over the other side of the airfield. Once the studes have completed 208, they may end up at 19 Sqn which teaches them how to operate the jet in the AD, weaponry and SAP phases culminating in Evasion at Low Level. All the instructors are at least second tourists (many have more than one tour under their ever-expanding belts!) and the younger guys make up for their relative lack of time in with some very serious experience. Most of them have taken part in one or more 'wars' in the past 3 years and this gives them the edge on some of the older but wiser 'peaceniks' around.
John McRae was a thoroughly nice chap who was 'sh*t' upon by the Fighter Pilot programme. He never wanted to take part but was forced to because all the original candidates got chopped at Henlow. The powers that be decided to move the focus onto a completely new set of chaps altogether. There was one other (at least) of this new bunch who, although didn't make it as a pilot, ended up as a sqn boss navigator before retiring to become a FTRS shag back at Lossie.
barotraumatizer: "Also, where does front line experience help in pattering Blogssy through an incipient stall set up?"
We teach more than incipient stall set ups at Valley!
All the creamies are serving on 208 Sqn which teaches all the FJ Advanced Flying Training. All the present creamies are very professional and, once they have completed their tour, go on to be very successful over the other side of the airfield. Once the studes have completed 208, they may end up at 19 Sqn which teaches them how to operate the jet in the AD, weaponry and SAP phases culminating in Evasion at Low Level. All the instructors are at least second tourists (many have more than one tour under their ever-expanding belts!) and the younger guys make up for their relative lack of time in with some very serious experience. Most of them have taken part in one or more 'wars' in the past 3 years and this gives them the edge on some of the older but wiser 'peaceniks' around.
John McRae was a thoroughly nice chap who was 'sh*t' upon by the Fighter Pilot programme. He never wanted to take part but was forced to because all the original candidates got chopped at Henlow. The powers that be decided to move the focus onto a completely new set of chaps altogether. There was one other (at least) of this new bunch who, although didn't make it as a pilot, ended up as a sqn boss navigator before retiring to become a FTRS shag back at Lossie.
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creamies
Tu chan go
Well aware there fella:-
I wasn't attempting to undermine the instructors' role at Valley, was just trying to use a salient point to illustrate that front Line experience isn't a necessity for 208(R) Sqn QFIs!
Well aware there fella:-
I wasn't attempting to undermine the instructors' role at Valley, was just trying to use a salient point to illustrate that front Line experience isn't a necessity for 208(R) Sqn QFIs!
Last edited by barotraumatizer; 26th May 2004 at 20:46.