New RAF Recruitment Ad.
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Mil - what prompted the 'in my day' policy change?
The latest ad is not only totally misleading, but for me, an insult. I challenge anyone who's been in the Service over the last 5+ years to explain how they feel valued whatsover. And by that I don't mean being molly-coddled, I mean penny-pinching, short-sighted policies that are counter-balanced by quite bizarre wastes of money in other extremes. Moreover, LOTS of people I know (myself included) have felt far from valued when our lives (PIC numbers) are treated like a commodity, with scant disregard for any kind of life outside the Service. ie. short-notice OOA dets. Sure, it's a feature of all the wars we seem to get embroiled in, but even last week a friend of mine was given a week to deploy to Cyprus (hardly a recently acquired base) and then had it cancelled the day before .
At my base the lads are being forced to double-up - not just in transit! - because there's no money to build another block. In the mean time another friend who is recently married has been told to expect to share a 4-man room at his forthcoming posting for up to 6 months. Another friend is getting nowhere with DHE at her future posting despite leaving here in a couple of weeks, while she's being pestered by DHE here to get out of her current house ASAP! Her husband works an hour down the M4 (good day) and has been told her posting represents co-location!
So, LAC Bloggs might very well get posted here, perhaps with echoes of 'feeling valued' in his/her ears, to be stuck in transit ad infinitum, which currently is a cell-sized room with double - sometimes triple - bunk beds within. Presumably, once all those beds are full, we'll be pitching tents on the soccer pitch? because, let's face it, it would take a brave young lad to expose his mistreatment, so it will only continue.
In the mean time, Bloggs goes home to tell his mates about his life in the RAF and undermines the whole expensive recruitment package. As has been stated earlier in this post, one of the best forms of recruitment is Bloggs going home and telling everyone what a fantastic time he's having, how his SNCO's (and even officers!) actually DO care, rather than meet their cynical 'duty of care' commitments and not how he's got slightly less space than a prisoner, occasionally has hot water in his mildew-chewed (?) showers and has power and heating most of the week.
Chop the ads for now, spend the cash on infrastructure and then start harping-on about people being valued after some genuine investment has backed-up currently hollow claims. Never know, Bloggs might just stay in the Service then...
In the mean time, SNCO's and Officers: start taking an interest in your people, listen to them and flag-up the problems; you might just get a warm and fluffy feeling by earning true respect. However, if you are hellbent on career-progression, withdraw yourself from your important role as a leader and just sit there moaning about how bad it's got, you've got nobody but yourself to blame for the situation; enjoy the mess, the privileges and the scrotes calling you 'sarge/sir', but don't be surprised if Bloggs and his mates reflect your disinterest with theirs.
Feel This Valued? ...perhaps by your blokes, if you start working for them!
The latest ad is not only totally misleading, but for me, an insult. I challenge anyone who's been in the Service over the last 5+ years to explain how they feel valued whatsover. And by that I don't mean being molly-coddled, I mean penny-pinching, short-sighted policies that are counter-balanced by quite bizarre wastes of money in other extremes. Moreover, LOTS of people I know (myself included) have felt far from valued when our lives (PIC numbers) are treated like a commodity, with scant disregard for any kind of life outside the Service. ie. short-notice OOA dets. Sure, it's a feature of all the wars we seem to get embroiled in, but even last week a friend of mine was given a week to deploy to Cyprus (hardly a recently acquired base) and then had it cancelled the day before .
At my base the lads are being forced to double-up - not just in transit! - because there's no money to build another block. In the mean time another friend who is recently married has been told to expect to share a 4-man room at his forthcoming posting for up to 6 months. Another friend is getting nowhere with DHE at her future posting despite leaving here in a couple of weeks, while she's being pestered by DHE here to get out of her current house ASAP! Her husband works an hour down the M4 (good day) and has been told her posting represents co-location!
So, LAC Bloggs might very well get posted here, perhaps with echoes of 'feeling valued' in his/her ears, to be stuck in transit ad infinitum, which currently is a cell-sized room with double - sometimes triple - bunk beds within. Presumably, once all those beds are full, we'll be pitching tents on the soccer pitch? because, let's face it, it would take a brave young lad to expose his mistreatment, so it will only continue.
In the mean time, Bloggs goes home to tell his mates about his life in the RAF and undermines the whole expensive recruitment package. As has been stated earlier in this post, one of the best forms of recruitment is Bloggs going home and telling everyone what a fantastic time he's having, how his SNCO's (and even officers!) actually DO care, rather than meet their cynical 'duty of care' commitments and not how he's got slightly less space than a prisoner, occasionally has hot water in his mildew-chewed (?) showers and has power and heating most of the week.
Chop the ads for now, spend the cash on infrastructure and then start harping-on about people being valued after some genuine investment has backed-up currently hollow claims. Never know, Bloggs might just stay in the Service then...
In the mean time, SNCO's and Officers: start taking an interest in your people, listen to them and flag-up the problems; you might just get a warm and fluffy feeling by earning true respect. However, if you are hellbent on career-progression, withdraw yourself from your important role as a leader and just sit there moaning about how bad it's got, you've got nobody but yourself to blame for the situation; enjoy the mess, the privileges and the scrotes calling you 'sarge/sir', but don't be surprised if Bloggs and his mates reflect your disinterest with theirs.
Feel This Valued? ...perhaps by your blokes, if you start working for them!
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FOMere2Eternity, you have hit the nail on the head mate, It's no good using flash adverts, handouts, games etc to try and improve recruitment, the most effective way is to make people feel valued and this in turns ensures good word of mouth and more applicants. The armed forces recruit dispraportionately more in certain geographical areas (lower ranks i'm talking about here) and it is imperative that in these traditional areas and communities the creditability and attractiveness of a career in the forces is maintained by word of mouth. The North East, Yorkshire, some areas of Scotland / Wales, Liverpool and the NW always have and still do provide the bulk of military recruits, employment and regional prosperity in many of these areas is rising and that is the biggest problem that the recruiters need to overcome (Army even more than RAF) I train recruits and dispute a lot of what has been said on this thread, yes there is some **** flowing through the system but we can't always stop them before they reach their units, that's nothing new, what is new is the lack of ability/willingness of seniors and JOs to weed out or encourage as is necessary in each case. It's time a lot of the leardership started earning some of their pay by guess what, yes that's it, by leading, encouraging and training the juniors instead of bleating just like some of the poorer recruits they claim to have nothing in common with.
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Has anyone actually tried to 'weed out' an individual that is not cutting it? In my experience it is almost impossible to get rid of someone who is kicking the a*se out of the system. It is sad that, albeit a few, take liberties with the generally trusting attitude of the command chain. What I find most frustrating is the lack of lateral thought by many JRs. I have always employed a developmental attitude towards the JRs with mixed results, some react very positively and begin to actually think for themselves but the ones that don't, continue with the blinkered tunnel vision that protects them from doing any extra work. The problem stems from the attitude that is instilled at the basic training level. Whilst the trainer's attempt to instill some pride in each trade, by making their charges think that other trades are somehow inferior, this results in a general confrontational attitude between areas. I refer, of course to, ground pounders. No matter how much leadership you employ a small sliver of individuals remain impervious to any attempts to make them cognitive humans. Back to my original point, it is close to impossible to have your problem child removed........build a case is the cry of the admin guru's.
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sex
It is very hard to do away with an under-performer, but it depends whether they're bad boys or just lazy; in the case of the former, an Admin Discharge will eventually be raised against a continued felon, but for the process to happen swiftly they either have to murder someone or rob a bank early on in their crime spree. Someone who is continually late - for example - is afforded far more long-term rope to hang themselves before the final chop.
Going back to my rant about conditions, I think our willingness to recruit pretty much anyone who can walk into the CIO under their own steam is very much related. Nowadays statistics play a major part in who we end up employing - which is pretty much everyone! If we were to live up to the line 'pound for pound an air force that is second to none', by actually looking after those who are 'our greatest asset' then the word would soon filter down to todays youngsters. A happy workforce, treated well by our employees would soon generate an almost 'elite' status, as opposed to the current perception of 'the military will have anyone'.
LAC Bloggs can do this for us; all he has to do is pop back to his local pub, bronzed and happy, telling his mates the press stories about having no kit are bollocks, telling them he's got a fantastic room at airbase X, telling them his boss is encouraging him to take exams, telling them his SNCO has allowed him a week to go on a skiing exped, telling them he has to deploy again at the end of the year, but can take leave in the meantime, telling them how he really does feel valued!
Bloggs' mates will be storming the CIO's! CIO blokes then get the pick of Bloggs' mates and sex's problems diminish.
To put this in a nutshell; how many times have you looked forward to a detachment to a USAF MOB or FOB? The one reason it sounds like a good deal? They look after theirs and we all expect kit, facilities and decent conditions. How many times have you looked forward to a det at one of our MOBs ?!
The recipe for solving our quality and recruitment problems is remarkably simple, but it's about improving things inside the wire (conditions and policies) as opposed to fooling someone with glossy brochures and baseball hats emblazoned with roundels. To continue as we currently do is false economy in the extreme, because apart from temporarily bluffing the ignorant civvies at the CIO, we're also losing the enlightened new recruits already inside the wire! (or at very least their enthusiasm)
Hopefully someone high enough to make strategic decisions about the direction of the RAF will realise this soon and re-adjust budgets sharpish! Recruiting quality people will require a degree of lateral thought, starting with a review of the post-recruitment landscape. Right now we're recruiting everyone we can into a military that's starting to resemble post-Cold War Russia's military. Moreover, the sooner we start talking within the Service and realise - irrespective of budgetary boundaries - we're all on the same side with the same overall targets, the better. This is not a time to be introspective!
It is very hard to do away with an under-performer, but it depends whether they're bad boys or just lazy; in the case of the former, an Admin Discharge will eventually be raised against a continued felon, but for the process to happen swiftly they either have to murder someone or rob a bank early on in their crime spree. Someone who is continually late - for example - is afforded far more long-term rope to hang themselves before the final chop.
Going back to my rant about conditions, I think our willingness to recruit pretty much anyone who can walk into the CIO under their own steam is very much related. Nowadays statistics play a major part in who we end up employing - which is pretty much everyone! If we were to live up to the line 'pound for pound an air force that is second to none', by actually looking after those who are 'our greatest asset' then the word would soon filter down to todays youngsters. A happy workforce, treated well by our employees would soon generate an almost 'elite' status, as opposed to the current perception of 'the military will have anyone'.
LAC Bloggs can do this for us; all he has to do is pop back to his local pub, bronzed and happy, telling his mates the press stories about having no kit are bollocks, telling them he's got a fantastic room at airbase X, telling them his boss is encouraging him to take exams, telling them his SNCO has allowed him a week to go on a skiing exped, telling them he has to deploy again at the end of the year, but can take leave in the meantime, telling them how he really does feel valued!
Bloggs' mates will be storming the CIO's! CIO blokes then get the pick of Bloggs' mates and sex's problems diminish.
To put this in a nutshell; how many times have you looked forward to a detachment to a USAF MOB or FOB? The one reason it sounds like a good deal? They look after theirs and we all expect kit, facilities and decent conditions. How many times have you looked forward to a det at one of our MOBs ?!
The recipe for solving our quality and recruitment problems is remarkably simple, but it's about improving things inside the wire (conditions and policies) as opposed to fooling someone with glossy brochures and baseball hats emblazoned with roundels. To continue as we currently do is false economy in the extreme, because apart from temporarily bluffing the ignorant civvies at the CIO, we're also losing the enlightened new recruits already inside the wire! (or at very least their enthusiasm)
Hopefully someone high enough to make strategic decisions about the direction of the RAF will realise this soon and re-adjust budgets sharpish! Recruiting quality people will require a degree of lateral thought, starting with a review of the post-recruitment landscape. Right now we're recruiting everyone we can into a military that's starting to resemble post-Cold War Russia's military. Moreover, the sooner we start talking within the Service and realise - irrespective of budgetary boundaries - we're all on the same side with the same overall targets, the better. This is not a time to be introspective!
Last edited by FOMere2eternity; 14th Feb 2004 at 18:56.
If anyone bothered to read my comments made on 13th Feb they will see that my observations tie in with FOMs view that these days we appear to recruit anyone that bothers to walk in off the high street! A sad state of affairs that says everything about the armed services of today. How can anyone feel pride in their service/trade etc if they know it is open to all. Elitism may be accused of building arrogance, and being non PC, but it also builds the pride, espirit de corps, etc , that is essential in an effective military force!
FOM, Biggus,
Right behind you on this one. It does seem that we'll take anybody these days, allegedly even people who have admitted to smoking cannabis, but thats OK because they've said they don't/won't do it any more.
It wouldn't be so bad if you were allowed to sort problem people out with a weighty system, but our H&S policy and PC bullsh1t doesn't allow it. Recently we had a defaulter come to our place, he was plonked down in the crewroom with a pile of amendments for a couple of hours. With TV and brew facilities that wasn't exactly hard was it, and rarely have I felt so disappointed in a senior member of my sqn for letting someone off so easily. Whatever happened to scrubbing out in the messes (can't do that H&S apparently) or mucking out the saddle club etc. Problem is, people get fizzed, get a few nights of pathetically minor inconvenience, and aren't bothered by the experience, thus reoffend.
I'm not advocating for a minute a dictatorial zero-tolerance regime, but I think NCO's and officers could at least be given the confidence that they can throw the book at someone to keep them in line, rather than feeling that the offender has the cards stacked in their favour as many of us currently feel.
Lower standard recruiting does not have to be the problem it appears to be if difficulties are allowed to be resolved as they should be.
Right behind you on this one. It does seem that we'll take anybody these days, allegedly even people who have admitted to smoking cannabis, but thats OK because they've said they don't/won't do it any more.
It wouldn't be so bad if you were allowed to sort problem people out with a weighty system, but our H&S policy and PC bullsh1t doesn't allow it. Recently we had a defaulter come to our place, he was plonked down in the crewroom with a pile of amendments for a couple of hours. With TV and brew facilities that wasn't exactly hard was it, and rarely have I felt so disappointed in a senior member of my sqn for letting someone off so easily. Whatever happened to scrubbing out in the messes (can't do that H&S apparently) or mucking out the saddle club etc. Problem is, people get fizzed, get a few nights of pathetically minor inconvenience, and aren't bothered by the experience, thus reoffend.
I'm not advocating for a minute a dictatorial zero-tolerance regime, but I think NCO's and officers could at least be given the confidence that they can throw the book at someone to keep them in line, rather than feeling that the offender has the cards stacked in their favour as many of us currently feel.
Lower standard recruiting does not have to be the problem it appears to be if difficulties are allowed to be resolved as they should be.
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I am extemely new to this web-site and regret not finding out about it earlier. I have spent hours reading any number of threads, all of which remind me that this country has had, and still has some outstanding people in its Armed Forces.
The level of potential recruits will always reflect society at that time as will the incumbent squadron members wherever they may be.
Having ingested the RAF since I was knee-high to a grasshopper it was the only career I wanted to have; sadly two OCU bosses did not see it that way and despite being keener than a Professor of Keeness at Oxford University, I parted company with the RAF. Still, time spent in the back of an FGR2, albeit only 60 hours, and 300 hours over the North Sea as a potential Anyface, have given me experiences that you could not buy and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
My sons always knew of my interest in the RAF, the photos, one complete room of flying books, staring up at the sky whenever I heard a plane, tended to be a bit of a giveaway. At 16 the eldest decided he wanted to fly the Eurofighter, helped by the EF2000 sim game, which necessitiated a new computer. He contacted the RAF, got all the griff and was settling into his A Levels quite nicely as well as flying at RAF Benson with his school CCF.
Towards the end of his studies he approached me somewhat diffidently and said he had something to tell me. Thoughts of pregnant waifs, or worse, a "friend" called Roger, assailed my brain and I decided we ought to discuss this over a pint. "Dad, would you be upset if I didn't join the RAF?" Thankfully returning my glass to the bar, I naturally said it was a matter for him to decide, but would be interested in his reasoning. "Well, if I join the RAF and I somehow get through all the courses and get on to fast jets, I might have to shoot somebody down or drop bombs on people and I am not sure I can do that." My initial reaction was one of relief, firstly that he had the courage to face up to this eventuality now as opposed to 10 years hence, and secondly that I and his mother would be spared the anguish of him going off to keep the peace at the behest of ill-informed politicians.
My father flew Spits in 1941-42 till he was shot down and my brother flew FGR2s for 20-odd years so I knew what my parents had been through. Not that it actually affects the person taking the risks ("It'll never happen to me, etc. etc. ").
The upshot of all this is that he is now at a UAS, having a ball flying the Grob Tutor and enjoying life as an O/C. Will he eventually join? I don't know, but I do know he has discovered that things actually work in the Forces, as opposed to Civvy Street. Commerce is not without its inherent faults and he still might square the circle, and his conscience, and end up as pilot.
Some things don't change. When I was going through Nav School I shared a room with a Green Shield F/L who was being posted to mud-moving FGR2s in Germany. His avowed intent, on things going wrong over there, was to be on the first ferry back!
On reflection, I side with Biggus and Jobza on this. The Forces still appears to be an excellent choice so long as you know the score before you take the plunge.
Sorry for the waffling, just thought it might help somebody make a choice.
The level of potential recruits will always reflect society at that time as will the incumbent squadron members wherever they may be.
Having ingested the RAF since I was knee-high to a grasshopper it was the only career I wanted to have; sadly two OCU bosses did not see it that way and despite being keener than a Professor of Keeness at Oxford University, I parted company with the RAF. Still, time spent in the back of an FGR2, albeit only 60 hours, and 300 hours over the North Sea as a potential Anyface, have given me experiences that you could not buy and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
My sons always knew of my interest in the RAF, the photos, one complete room of flying books, staring up at the sky whenever I heard a plane, tended to be a bit of a giveaway. At 16 the eldest decided he wanted to fly the Eurofighter, helped by the EF2000 sim game, which necessitiated a new computer. He contacted the RAF, got all the griff and was settling into his A Levels quite nicely as well as flying at RAF Benson with his school CCF.
Towards the end of his studies he approached me somewhat diffidently and said he had something to tell me. Thoughts of pregnant waifs, or worse, a "friend" called Roger, assailed my brain and I decided we ought to discuss this over a pint. "Dad, would you be upset if I didn't join the RAF?" Thankfully returning my glass to the bar, I naturally said it was a matter for him to decide, but would be interested in his reasoning. "Well, if I join the RAF and I somehow get through all the courses and get on to fast jets, I might have to shoot somebody down or drop bombs on people and I am not sure I can do that." My initial reaction was one of relief, firstly that he had the courage to face up to this eventuality now as opposed to 10 years hence, and secondly that I and his mother would be spared the anguish of him going off to keep the peace at the behest of ill-informed politicians.
My father flew Spits in 1941-42 till he was shot down and my brother flew FGR2s for 20-odd years so I knew what my parents had been through. Not that it actually affects the person taking the risks ("It'll never happen to me, etc. etc. ").
The upshot of all this is that he is now at a UAS, having a ball flying the Grob Tutor and enjoying life as an O/C. Will he eventually join? I don't know, but I do know he has discovered that things actually work in the Forces, as opposed to Civvy Street. Commerce is not without its inherent faults and he still might square the circle, and his conscience, and end up as pilot.
Some things don't change. When I was going through Nav School I shared a room with a Green Shield F/L who was being posted to mud-moving FGR2s in Germany. His avowed intent, on things going wrong over there, was to be on the first ferry back!
On reflection, I side with Biggus and Jobza on this. The Forces still appears to be an excellent choice so long as you know the score before you take the plunge.
Sorry for the waffling, just thought it might help somebody make a choice.
Get the feeling that Milops and DH98 are one and the same.. Sad when you have to argue with yourself.Join Date: Feb 2004
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I'll start this by saying that I'm in the Navy.
It seems strange to me that whilst you guys are whining onabout the standards of recurits you have probably never visited a careers office since you joined yourselves.
Standards for entry have not changed in the last 21 years that I have been in.
The people might have in their outlook and personality but not the recruiting system.
Next time you think of a good recruiting idea go down your AFCO and talk? weird idea I know, to the guys and girls doing a diffiuclt job.
It seems strange to me that whilst you guys are whining onabout the standards of recurits you have probably never visited a careers office since you joined yourselves.
Standards for entry have not changed in the last 21 years that I have been in.
The people might have in their outlook and personality but not the recruiting system.
Next time you think of a good recruiting idea go down your AFCO and talk? weird idea I know, to the guys and girls doing a diffiuclt job.
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RAF Advert!!!!!!!!
Nimrodnosewheel
I totally agree, the TV advert is the biggest lot of rubbish i have ever seen, and as for the airforce being caring and sharing its difficult enough to get an appointment at the medical centre let alone get said SPLINTER removed!!!!!
What idiots come up with these ideas??? I would love to know!!
E70
I totally agree, the TV advert is the biggest lot of rubbish i have ever seen, and as for the airforce being caring and sharing its difficult enough to get an appointment at the medical centre let alone get said SPLINTER removed!!!!!
What idiots come up with these ideas??? I would love to know!!
E70
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Yeah, I wouldn't go to the Med Centre with a splinter. They'll probably downgrade you and refer you to a specialist in Peterboro'.....oh, there I go again
Go private! Even for a splinter.
Go private! Even for a splinter.
