Whatever happened to the Chinook HC 3s?
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Nige, only one being "S" is a bit of a hareng rouge. Would it matter if all were "S": Headline DISGRACE: SEVEN SERVICEABLE HELICOPTERS KEPT ON GROUND? Or all U/S: Headline DISGRACE: HELICOPTERS KEPT ON GROUND, SEVEN UNSERVICEABLE ? It matters not in the grand scheme of the failure that is Mk3, they have no RTS.
sw
sw
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I thought it was interesting that's all. The cabs were flown regularly til last year. Qualified guys disappeared and frames were robbed for parts and now we are down to one, bit sad really.
SW, forgive me but £1/4 billion taxpayers hard earned cash invested in this project. I don't for a second believe that anyone has been made accountable. We are at war and we do not have enough SH. Tuc has often said there is enough money out there, but it is frittered away, guess this project proves his point.
SW, forgive me but £1/4 billion taxpayers hard earned cash invested in this project. I don't for a second believe that anyone has been made accountable. We are at war and we do not have enough SH. Tuc has often said there is enough money out there, but it is frittered away, guess this project proves his point.
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SW, forgive me but £1/4 billion taxpayers hard earned cash invested in this project. I don't for a second believe that anyone has been made accountable. We are at war and we do not have enough SH. Tuc has often said there is enough money out there, but it is frittered away, guess this project proves his point.
sw
Nigegilb
“Tuc has often said there is enough money out there, but it is frittered away, guess this project proves his point”.
Thank you for the kind words, but when it comes to financial waste by MoD, no-one has to prove anything. It is endemic and condoned at the highest level.
I don’t know how much it will cost to bring these Mk3s up to an acceptable standard, but if it was a mere £100M or so, then I can suggest real savings of that order, on a single project, in the time it takes to read this. Come to think of it, I already have; not that MoD was interested.
Two parties can agree to disagree. I just happen to disagree with certain senior staffs who take the view that waste, and potential for savings, is “political dynamite” and should not be mentioned. I also believe that, by knowingly avoiding their obligation to the taxpayer (enshrined in everyone’s letter of financial delegation), they are committing an offence. Under FOI, I obtained a letter stating that I am in a minority of one. Looks like its two now!
BTW, this is not thread creep away from Mk3. Same names in both audit trails.
“Tuc has often said there is enough money out there, but it is frittered away, guess this project proves his point”.
Thank you for the kind words, but when it comes to financial waste by MoD, no-one has to prove anything. It is endemic and condoned at the highest level.
I don’t know how much it will cost to bring these Mk3s up to an acceptable standard, but if it was a mere £100M or so, then I can suggest real savings of that order, on a single project, in the time it takes to read this. Come to think of it, I already have; not that MoD was interested.
Two parties can agree to disagree. I just happen to disagree with certain senior staffs who take the view that waste, and potential for savings, is “political dynamite” and should not be mentioned. I also believe that, by knowingly avoiding their obligation to the taxpayer (enshrined in everyone’s letter of financial delegation), they are committing an offence. Under FOI, I obtained a letter stating that I am in a minority of one. Looks like its two now!
BTW, this is not thread creep away from Mk3. Same names in both audit trails.
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I see the MoD have finally announced that the HC Mk 3 are to be fisxed to fly or was it an April Fools Joke that the eight Chinook H C mk 3 are to be fixed for deployment in support helicopter role not with the SF fit according to the Press rElease from the MoD issued on Friday along with the news that they ae to take the six Danish Merlin TTH as part of £230M deal.
The statement issued said that it is going to take another two years before they can be fielded and that te Merlins will be going to AW for UK specific modifications and that they will be another twelve months before those become avaiable.
Also tucked away in the statement was news that they where going to continue with the work of the FRC on the procurement of Medium lift helicopters.
Quite again on what is going to be happening with a replacement for the Puma and Chinook SO we will still have to wait until they can make up there mind if they can rent(COMR) or refurbiish or actually get round to buying a replacement
The statement issued said that it is going to take another two years before they can be fielded and that te Merlins will be going to AW for UK specific modifications and that they will be another twelve months before those become avaiable.
Also tucked away in the statement was news that they where going to continue with the work of the FRC on the procurement of Medium lift helicopters.
Quite again on what is going to be happening with a replacement for the Puma and Chinook SO we will still have to wait until they can make up there mind if they can rent(COMR) or refurbiish or actually get round to buying a replacement
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This was posted on another site, I presume it is the actual formal announcement of what was previously announced :-
Quote :-
UK signs deal to get grounded Chinook HC3 helicopters...
DATE:18/10/07
SOURCE:Flightglobal.com
UK signs deal to get grounded Chinook HC3 helicopters into service
By Craig Hoyle
The UK Ministry of Defence has advanced a project to convert eight grounded Boeing CH-47 Chinook HC3 transport helicopters for delayed use by the Royal Air Force from late this decade.
"An initial contract was placed with Boeing on 1 August," says armed forces minister Bob Ainsworth. "On current plans we expect to see the aircraft delivered by the end of 2009."
Originally scheduled to enter service in the late 1990s, but delivered from 2001, the Chinook HC3s were placed into storage after trials work concluded that their unique hybrid digital/analogue avionics configuration could not be certificated. Plans to prepare the aircraft for battlefield support use were finally confirmed earlier this year, under a £235 million ($480 million) initiative also covering the acquisition from Denmark of six AgustaWestland EH101 Merlin HC3As (Flight International, 10-16 April).
The MoD says the first phase of its so-called reversion deal with Boeing is worth £6.3 million, and will cover "aircraft characterisation" work, flight trials activities and the purchase of long-lead items for the Chinooks' subsequent modification. Qinetiq will support the modification and test process.
A follow-on contract is expected to be signed before year-end, with this to conclude design activities and cover modification work to take place during 2009, the MoD says. Focused on the installation of a secondary structure to support replacement avionics and display equipment, the project was earlier this year projected as valuing around £50-60 million.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ters-into.html
Quote :-
UK signs deal to get grounded Chinook HC3 helicopters...
DATE:18/10/07
SOURCE:Flightglobal.com
UK signs deal to get grounded Chinook HC3 helicopters into service
By Craig Hoyle
The UK Ministry of Defence has advanced a project to convert eight grounded Boeing CH-47 Chinook HC3 transport helicopters for delayed use by the Royal Air Force from late this decade.
"An initial contract was placed with Boeing on 1 August," says armed forces minister Bob Ainsworth. "On current plans we expect to see the aircraft delivered by the end of 2009."
Originally scheduled to enter service in the late 1990s, but delivered from 2001, the Chinook HC3s were placed into storage after trials work concluded that their unique hybrid digital/analogue avionics configuration could not be certificated. Plans to prepare the aircraft for battlefield support use were finally confirmed earlier this year, under a £235 million ($480 million) initiative also covering the acquisition from Denmark of six AgustaWestland EH101 Merlin HC3As (Flight International, 10-16 April).
The MoD says the first phase of its so-called reversion deal with Boeing is worth £6.3 million, and will cover "aircraft characterisation" work, flight trials activities and the purchase of long-lead items for the Chinooks' subsequent modification. Qinetiq will support the modification and test process.
A follow-on contract is expected to be signed before year-end, with this to conclude design activities and cover modification work to take place during 2009, the MoD says. Focused on the installation of a secondary structure to support replacement avionics and display equipment, the project was earlier this year projected as valuing around £50-60 million.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ters-into.html
At last.
Call me cynical, but I often think screw ups like this are swept under the nearest carpet until the main players are retired, to avoid embarrassment.
Case in point.
Call me cynical, but I often think screw ups like this are swept under the nearest carpet until the main players are retired, to avoid embarrassment.
Case in point.
tuc I know what you mean but, with respect, the main players in this game are fighting a war in sandy places, and have been in desperate need of these cabs since being there. That they may have been denied them, for even one day, for the reason that you give adds to the scandal that is the MOD.
Thread Starter
Phil G,
It's confirmation that the Topdeck scheme is dead, and that Fix to Field has followed it.
Reversion is a "let's convert these back to HC2 standards" scheme - the very cheapest option, yet still one which will cost millions - £6m for the first phase, for starters.
It's confirmation that the Topdeck scheme is dead, and that Fix to Field has followed it.
Reversion is a "let's convert these back to HC2 standards" scheme - the very cheapest option, yet still one which will cost millions - £6m for the first phase, for starters.
Hellbound
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Interesting challenge as well as I wonder if the spares system can generate another 8 ship-sets of the appropriate equipment while continuing to fill PEPs. I wonder how many robs this will generate?
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At the moment half the work of Fwd Del at Odious seems to be driving in between main supply and LDF to rob parts.
Stackers can't even use the old "its no good point as the USAS says its not there" line anymore as there is very little to point at.
Stackers can't even use the old "its no good point as the USAS says its not there" line anymore as there is very little to point at.
Eight Chinooks to boost operations in Afghanistan
Not sure if this is exactly 'new' news, but a press release dated today states:-
2007-12-18
[16:07]
Eight Chinooks to boost operations in Afghanistan
PRNewswire-GNN London 18 December
London, 18 December /PRNewswire-GNN/ --
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE News Release (304/2007) issued by The Government News
Network on 18 December 2007
A £62 million contract with Boeing to convert eight Chinook Mk3 helicopters
to a support helicopter role was announced by the MoD today.
Des Browne, Secretary of State for Defence, said:
"Helicopters play a vital role in supporting our operations in Iraq and
Afghanistan. That is why we are taking measures to make more helicopters
available to operations as quickly as possible."
These helicopters will deliver a significant boost to the UK's operational
heavy lift helicopter fleet. Chinooks are a key battle winning capability. The
first helicopters are expected to be operational in 2009.
The eight converted Chinooks will join the existing fleet of 40 RAF Chinook
helicopters and will be based at RAF Odiham in Hampshire.
Notes to Editors
1. The contract between MoD and Boeing was signed on Friday 14 December 2007.
2. The overall cost to the defence budget to modify these helicopters is
expected to be £90.1M of which £62M is the contract with Boeing.
3. Design work will take place at Boeing in Philadelphia and modification
work will be done by QinetiQ at Boscombe Down in Wiltshire, Hampshire.
4. A Chinook helicopter can carry up to 55 troops or 10 tonnes of freight,
and can be used for search and rescue or casualty evacuation. It can safely
land and lift off again from water. It can carry up to five Land Rovers (2
internal and 3 as under slung loads and with a twin rotor design it is one
the few helicopters that can carry a 'payload' equivalent to its own weight.
5. They are highly capable and versatile helicopters that cope well with
many diverse environments, including the harsh conditions in Afghanistan.
6. For further details please contact David Hunter at the MoD Press office on
0207 218 7950, or Nick West at Boeing on 0207 747 5531 ([email protected])
Ministry of Defence
[16:07]
Eight Chinooks to boost operations in Afghanistan
PRNewswire-GNN London 18 December
London, 18 December /PRNewswire-GNN/ --
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE News Release (304/2007) issued by The Government News
Network on 18 December 2007
A £62 million contract with Boeing to convert eight Chinook Mk3 helicopters
to a support helicopter role was announced by the MoD today.
Des Browne, Secretary of State for Defence, said:
"Helicopters play a vital role in supporting our operations in Iraq and
Afghanistan. That is why we are taking measures to make more helicopters
available to operations as quickly as possible."
These helicopters will deliver a significant boost to the UK's operational
heavy lift helicopter fleet. Chinooks are a key battle winning capability. The
first helicopters are expected to be operational in 2009.
The eight converted Chinooks will join the existing fleet of 40 RAF Chinook
helicopters and will be based at RAF Odiham in Hampshire.
Notes to Editors
1. The contract between MoD and Boeing was signed on Friday 14 December 2007.
2. The overall cost to the defence budget to modify these helicopters is
expected to be £90.1M of which £62M is the contract with Boeing.
3. Design work will take place at Boeing in Philadelphia and modification
work will be done by QinetiQ at Boscombe Down in Wiltshire, Hampshire.
4. A Chinook helicopter can carry up to 55 troops or 10 tonnes of freight,
and can be used for search and rescue or casualty evacuation. It can safely
land and lift off again from water. It can carry up to five Land Rovers (2
internal and 3 as under slung loads and with a twin rotor design it is one
the few helicopters that can carry a 'payload' equivalent to its own weight.
5. They are highly capable and versatile helicopters that cope well with
many diverse environments, including the harsh conditions in Afghanistan.
6. For further details please contact David Hunter at the MoD Press office on
0207 218 7950, or Nick West at Boeing on 0207 747 5531 ([email protected])
Ministry of Defence
In essence, a reannouncement of the last announcement, simply adding that the contract details have been now worked out. Still another year and a bit (at least) until the first airframe enters service.
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I posted about this conversion some time back but it's ridiculous. On the same thread i asked "why do the MoD need to mess around with the aircraft to begin with" when other countries buy them from the manufacturer and start flying them with the same avionics etc as with the other buyers such as the US Army. No one seemed to be able to answer it...
If we hadn't messed around or tried to fit our own avionics etc into them in the first place they would be out in Afghanistan now and not needed to be 'downgraded' to an HC2 (or whatever) standard from an HC3.
Our MoD always changes things which then limits the in service date. Surely other countries do not %^&* about as much as we do to get something into service... changing things around, putting different suites in than the original ones which seem to work fine in the first place?
Excuse the non technical jargon..
If we hadn't messed around or tried to fit our own avionics etc into them in the first place they would be out in Afghanistan now and not needed to be 'downgraded' to an HC2 (or whatever) standard from an HC3.
Our MoD always changes things which then limits the in service date. Surely other countries do not %^&* about as much as we do to get something into service... changing things around, putting different suites in than the original ones which seem to work fine in the first place?
Excuse the non technical jargon..
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Just how many times are they going to blow the "8 more Chinooks for Afghanistan" trumpet? It winds me up that they 
it all up so badly yet still feel proud enough to sing from the rooftops about a decision which has taken months to get a contract sorted and will still take years to come to fruition. What a bunch of spin-bolleaux arse-biscuits.
How could we possibly complain that we're not getting the new equipment we need...?
it all up so badly yet still feel proud enough to sing from the rooftops about a decision which has taken months to get a contract sorted and will still take years to come to fruition. What a bunch of spin-bolleaux arse-biscuits.How could we possibly complain that we're not getting the new equipment we need...?
The overall cost to the defence budget to modify these helicopters is
expected to be £90.1M
expected to be £90.1M
Hope I've totally misunderstood the 'facts'.