Battle Of Britain Tonight!!!
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Both the aerial cameramen who filmed BoB, John Jordan and Skeets Kelly were killed in flying accidents after the film - I think it was Kelly who died in a midair between an SE-5A replica and the helicopter he was in whilst filming Darling Lily IIRC, and John Jordan fell out of the back of the B-25 used for filming Catch 22 in Mexico... might have been the other way around...
Also, I seem to recall that the one who fell to his death had lost part of a leg whilst filming the James Bond film with Little Nellie - You Only Live Twice? - I think that was an accident with a helicopter...
Also, I seem to recall that the one who fell to his death had lost part of a leg whilst filming the James Bond film with Little Nellie - You Only Live Twice? - I think that was an accident with a helicopter...
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Sadly spotting away
Thrilling stuff- I had the honour of taking my DVD copy of the B of B and showing to some Brownjobs in Basra just after the recent dust-up. I expected some "chocks away" banter but it drew a large audience and plenty of admiration. Nothing so evocative as the Spitfires diving into attack....... Funnily enough, all the ME109s used in the film were reengined with Merlins....how apt 
And on the subject of films... A Bridge Too Far is another awesome film....."I'm sorry we havent the proper facilities to take you all prisoner".....battered and bloody officer with umbrella to representative of 2 entire SS Panzer Divisions.
Hats off.....
And on the subject of films... A Bridge Too Far is another awesome film....."I'm sorry we havent the proper facilities to take you all prisoner".....battered and bloody officer with umbrella to representative of 2 entire SS Panzer Divisions.
Hats off.....
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Mr BEagle, sir
Agree wholeheartedly re B o B and Bridge Too Far. If they were released today they would be acclaimed as fantastic "Drama-Docs"
Mr Treadigraph
Glad I am not alone in appreciating the Walton score. Had the priviledge of seeing mixed bunch of Spits and Buchons doing live aerial ballet to Walton's "Battle" played over PA at Biggin on the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Britain. Amazing. BTW, missed the C5 showing but C4 have broadcast a version with Walton's Triumphal March playing over the closing titles.
Get that bowser out of here. We'll go with what we've got
Agree wholeheartedly re B o B and Bridge Too Far. If they were released today they would be acclaimed as fantastic "Drama-Docs"
Mr Treadigraph
Glad I am not alone in appreciating the Walton score. Had the priviledge of seeing mixed bunch of Spits and Buchons doing live aerial ballet to Walton's "Battle" played over PA at Biggin on the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Britain. Amazing. BTW, missed the C5 showing but C4 have broadcast a version with Walton's Triumphal March playing over the closing titles.
Get that bowser out of here. We'll go with what we've got
The 'Walton' score? My understanding is that only a tiny snippet (used in the final aerial battle sequence) remained from Walton's score and that the rest (including the March) was by someone else entirely.
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Jacko.
You are correct in your assumption. William Walton was contracted to write the origional score , but ultimately it was rejected. Ron Goodwin was then brought on board (he did '633 Sqn' and 'The Trap') and the score you are familair with is his. However one piece from the Walton score was used in the film and that is the September 15 battle sequence.
If anybody is sad enough to be interested, there is a CD available of the film score titled not surprisingly 'The Battle Of Britain' that contains both scores and also includes a DVD of the origional film trailers. My wife hates it!
'I thought it might buck up the civilians sir.'
You are correct in your assumption. William Walton was contracted to write the origional score , but ultimately it was rejected. Ron Goodwin was then brought on board (he did '633 Sqn' and 'The Trap') and the score you are familair with is his. However one piece from the Walton score was used in the film and that is the September 15 battle sequence.
If anybody is sad enough to be interested, there is a CD available of the film score titled not surprisingly 'The Battle Of Britain' that contains both scores and also includes a DVD of the origional film trailers. My wife hates it!
'I thought it might buck up the civilians sir.'
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Jacko and Mr Mossie
You are both right - almost - Walton was commissioned to write the score and delivered nine movements lasting just 22 minutes or so. Director Guy Hamilton, allegedly, rejected the work as too short and too quirky. Ron Goodwin was commissioned to produce a rreplacement. Legend has it that he delivered the finished work - regarded by many as his best - in less than four weeks.
Larry Olivier (Dowding in the film), for whom Walton had scored Henry V, Richard III and Hamlet, in the 1940s, is said to have taken umbrage at the rejection of Walton's score and insisted on the inclusion of, at least, some of it. Hence, you get the striking "Scramble - Battle in the Air" for the 15 Sept climax. As said, C4 shows a print with Walton's march over closing titles.
The rest of the score is not, however, lost. It is on the CD hated by Mrs Mossie (and the Thargette for that matter) and is well worth a listen: some of the dogfight sequences would appear to be scored as pretty little classical dances. One theory to account for the short, truncated nature of some movements was that Walton wanted his music to lead into the harmonies of the Merlins and DB 605s, using the engines as musical instruments. It would be fascinating to see and hear what the Walton would have been like.
In fact, given a powerful enough pooter with Adobe Premiere software, a DVD of the film, and at least three weeks on me own, I might try it myself.
It's Air Vice Marshall Park, sir
Oh good - that's all we need
You are both right - almost - Walton was commissioned to write the score and delivered nine movements lasting just 22 minutes or so. Director Guy Hamilton, allegedly, rejected the work as too short and too quirky. Ron Goodwin was commissioned to produce a rreplacement. Legend has it that he delivered the finished work - regarded by many as his best - in less than four weeks.
Larry Olivier (Dowding in the film), for whom Walton had scored Henry V, Richard III and Hamlet, in the 1940s, is said to have taken umbrage at the rejection of Walton's score and insisted on the inclusion of, at least, some of it. Hence, you get the striking "Scramble - Battle in the Air" for the 15 Sept climax. As said, C4 shows a print with Walton's march over closing titles.
The rest of the score is not, however, lost. It is on the CD hated by Mrs Mossie (and the Thargette for that matter) and is well worth a listen: some of the dogfight sequences would appear to be scored as pretty little classical dances. One theory to account for the short, truncated nature of some movements was that Walton wanted his music to lead into the harmonies of the Merlins and DB 605s, using the engines as musical instruments. It would be fascinating to see and hear what the Walton would have been like.
In fact, given a powerful enough pooter with Adobe Premiere software, a DVD of the film, and at least three weeks on me own, I might try it myself.
It's Air Vice Marshall Park, sir
Oh good - that's all we need
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Seems I was a bit previous with the DIY dubbing of Walton's score on to the film. Announced in the Independent, late September, that Guy Hamilton is going to do just that sometime soon. Could just be a rumour but - hey we live in hope.
Re "Israeli pilot" - it is generally believed that the film's producer Benjamin Fisz inserted the entry for himself. He flew Hurricanes with 303 sqn - but not until October 40. Close enough for me.
Over the wing, plenty of it
Cue 109s to make fench-cutting low pass
Re "Israeli pilot" - it is generally believed that the film's producer Benjamin Fisz inserted the entry for himself. He flew Hurricanes with 303 sqn - but not until October 40. Close enough for me.
Over the wing, plenty of it
Cue 109s to make fench-cutting low pass
Yes, Him
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I think you are thinking of Klaus "Heinie" Adam. He was not in the BoB but later a Typhoon pilot with numerous Panzer kills and later yet the set (and most of the gadgets) designer for the Bond movies, Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang and others. Lovely old guy, lives opposite Harrods which he calls the "corner shop". Has two Oscars. Fascinating bloke, could talk to him for hours. When he joined the RAF he changed his name to Ken Adam.
There was a German Jag exchange mate in the 50th anniversary flypast. Some banter at the time about singing "Wir faren gegen England" as we thundered up the Mall.
PS Adam is Jewish, his family came to the UK in the 1930s. I think his younger brother also joined the RAF and flew Spits.
There was a German Jag exchange mate in the 50th anniversary flypast. Some banter at the time about singing "Wir faren gegen England" as we thundered up the Mall.
PS Adam is Jewish, his family came to the UK in the 1930s. I think his younger brother also joined the RAF and flew Spits.
Last edited by Gainesy; 25th Nov 2003 at 20:25.
Gentleman Aviator
The "Israeli" BoB Pilot
Not an insert or a sly reference to a mate or a relative, but a real person - but obviously he was not an "Israeli" as such a thing did not exist in 1940.
A total of 2927 aircrew (not only pilots!) are officially recognised as qualifying for the "Battle of Britain" clasp to the 1939-45 Star. The qualification was "a minimum of one operational sortie flown with a qualifying unit of the RAF or FAA between 10th July and 31st of October 1940."
Of that 2927, 574 (nearly 20%) were recorded as having a nationality other than "British". One was "Palestinian" (now often quoted as "Israeli"); he was Pilot Officer G E Goodman, who flew with 1 Sqn in the Battle. He survived the Battle (unlike 544 other aircrew), but was among the 791 BoB veterans who were killed in action later in the war.
No more details from me, perhaps a Harrier mate with access to 1 Sqn's records could add some more.........??
Not an insert or a sly reference to a mate or a relative, but a real person - but obviously he was not an "Israeli" as such a thing did not exist in 1940.
A total of 2927 aircrew (not only pilots!) are officially recognised as qualifying for the "Battle of Britain" clasp to the 1939-45 Star. The qualification was "a minimum of one operational sortie flown with a qualifying unit of the RAF or FAA between 10th July and 31st of October 1940."
Of that 2927, 574 (nearly 20%) were recorded as having a nationality other than "British". One was "Palestinian" (now often quoted as "Israeli"); he was Pilot Officer G E Goodman, who flew with 1 Sqn in the Battle. He survived the Battle (unlike 544 other aircrew), but was among the 791 BoB veterans who were killed in action later in the war.
No more details from me, perhaps a Harrier mate with access to 1 Sqn's records could add some more.........??
Cool Mod
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This is getting tiresome. What with your other thread. We have better things to do than look for stupid posts like yours. If only we knew what your point is! No more please.
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Slightly off-topic(ish) but I have to disagree that A Bridge Too Far was an "awesome" film.
Yes, it all looks very nice but as a piece of story-telling is an absolute bl00dy outrage.
My objection is that it deliberately make the British out to be completly incompetant idiots, but the American to be super-heroes. Hollywood seems to particularly like having a go at Monty for some reason - see Saving Private Ryan for more un-called for sniping.
I've always been a bit disgusted that Richard "luvvie" Attenborough sold-out to Hollywood in making this film, presumably for the sake of money.
Plus, of course, the Yanks won't go and see a film that doesn't have them as the super-hero saviours of all mankind.
No wonder so many Op. Market Garden survivors walked out of the screenings when the film was released.
Yes, it all looks very nice but as a piece of story-telling is an absolute bl00dy outrage.
My objection is that it deliberately make the British out to be completly incompetant idiots, but the American to be super-heroes. Hollywood seems to particularly like having a go at Monty for some reason - see Saving Private Ryan for more un-called for sniping.
I've always been a bit disgusted that Richard "luvvie" Attenborough sold-out to Hollywood in making this film, presumably for the sake of money.
Plus, of course, the Yanks won't go and see a film that doesn't have them as the super-hero saviours of all mankind.
No wonder so many Op. Market Garden survivors walked out of the screenings when the film was released.
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Saw the film last week...... When Sir Michael Caine, was it Cranfield?? Bought it.....
"He blew up... he just blew up!!"
I understand that his last R/T T/X was
"Your'e only supposed to blow the b(oody doors off!"
"He blew up... he just blew up!!"
I understand that his last R/T T/X was
"Your'e only supposed to blow the b(oody doors off!"
