NCO Pilots
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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NCO Pilots
Select Committee on Public Accounts Forty-Sixth Report - "Ministry of Defence: Building an air manoeuvre capability: the introduction of the Apache Helicopter". Link
Recommendations:...........
6. In the Department's opinion the Non-Commissioned Officers who make up 60% of pilots with the Army Air Corps are as capable as their commissioned equivalents and also pose fewer problems of retention. The Department should examine whether other parts of the Armed Forces could use NCO pilots.
Recommendations:...........
6. In the Department's opinion the Non-Commissioned Officers who make up 60% of pilots with the Army Air Corps are as capable as their commissioned equivalents and also pose fewer problems of retention. The Department should examine whether other parts of the Armed Forces could use NCO pilots.
Fewer retention problems? Perhaps it's nothing to do with the NCO/Officer question, more the ex-Mil RW/FW employability issue?
Or perhaps this august committee didn't know that?
Idiots!!
Or perhaps this august committee didn't know that?
Idiots!!
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Not often I agree with an "A400 supporter" but he has got it in one here
they retain "hairy arm core" pilots mainly cos............well there is not a lot of call for "drumstick drivers" in civvie street and "drumstick drivin" in the Army looks like bloody good fun.......even if the lifestyle is sh@te 
As for NCO pilots in RAF I gave up on that thought years ago
..............never happen.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
they retain "hairy arm core" pilots mainly cos............well there is not a lot of call for "drumstick drivers" in civvie street and "drumstick drivin" in the Army looks like bloody good fun
.......even if the lifestyle is sh@te As for NCO pilots in RAF I gave up on that thought years ago
..............never happen.all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 19th Nov 2003 at 09:12.
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"they retain "hairy arm core" pilots mainly cos............well there is not a lot of call for "drumstick drivers" "
Even less for Lynx drivers I am told, but then there has not been much AAC action hereabouts lately. Must check out arse.com to find out whats going on.
Even less for Lynx drivers I am told, but then there has not been much AAC action hereabouts lately. Must check out arse.com to find out whats going on.
No slanging match - except at this idiot committee!
The only reason they are interested in more NCO pilots is so that the overall salary bill can be reduced. Nothing to do with class or status or whatever else people think is the differentiation between Officer and NCO.
The only reason they are interested in more NCO pilots is so that the overall salary bill can be reduced. Nothing to do with class or status or whatever else people think is the differentiation between Officer and NCO.
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"they retain "hairy arm core" pilots mainly cos............well there is not a lot of call for "drumstick drivers" "
Mmm, apart from the continual demand for PAS, rigs, Air Amb etc...
You would be surprised at the amount of 'airy arm corps pilots who decide to join back up after a stint in the outside world.
Mmm, apart from the continual demand for PAS, rigs, Air Amb etc...
You would be surprised at the amount of 'airy arm corps pilots who decide to join back up after a stint in the outside world.
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Hmmm... As an ex 'hairy arsed' NCO QHI I elect to sit on the fence!
Beagle is undoubtedly right when he states that civvie employability is an issue (although I am earning more out, than I was in!) However, most SSgt type Army Pilots are on the same daily rate as 6 year point infantry Majors, the only saving here is due to the military pension scam which is clearly designed for, and weighted in favour of, our less experienced chaps! Why oh why do the RAF insist on training their helicopter pilots via the fast jet route!!!! That’s where the savings are!
Oh sorry - I forgot to mention that whilst I sit in my 400k house with the Mercedes Concertible on the drive: that I do in fact consider myself inferior to my commisioned superiors.......
errr thats 'convertible' by the way...
Beagle is undoubtedly right when he states that civvie employability is an issue (although I am earning more out, than I was in!) However, most SSgt type Army Pilots are on the same daily rate as 6 year point infantry Majors, the only saving here is due to the military pension scam which is clearly designed for, and weighted in favour of, our less experienced chaps! Why oh why do the RAF insist on training their helicopter pilots via the fast jet route!!!! That’s where the savings are!
Oh sorry - I forgot to mention that whilst I sit in my 400k house with the Mercedes Concertible on the drive: that I do in fact consider myself inferior to my commisioned superiors.......
errr thats 'convertible' by the way...
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The old adage of saving money with NCO pilots doesn’t hold water any more for more than one reason. Firstly some of the WO and NCO’s are on the same pay rates, being on professional pay spine. (True caped at level 22 but £52,045 a year is significantly more that a ground Maj/Sqn Ldr remember that the Queen also Commissions people who don’t ever fly!) Taking an example close to home I was paid somewhere in the region of £ 78 Thou with bonuses, this would keep at least 6 Pilot Officers in spot cream for a year.
The job market outside is much the same for NCO or Officers being somewhat depressed at the mo but it is sill unusual that a NCO pilot leaves the Army to not go into a flying job. The majority of them going to the charter airlines or police aviation (all that extra time not commanding the men being put to good use with study towards ATPL(A)) My aim is not to denigrate the officer corps in any way but to put the misconceptions of the “drumstick drivin, dung eating hairy arm corps” in to some context.
What the Chief of the Air Staff say in regard to the question raised by the PAC is open to debate but the head in sand won’t work and rumor is it wont be that long before many might be subsumed any way, allegedly! I personally wouldn’t complain too much.
The job market outside is much the same for NCO or Officers being somewhat depressed at the mo but it is sill unusual that a NCO pilot leaves the Army to not go into a flying job. The majority of them going to the charter airlines or police aviation (all that extra time not commanding the men being put to good use with study towards ATPL(A)) My aim is not to denigrate the officer corps in any way but to put the misconceptions of the “drumstick drivin, dung eating hairy arm corps” in to some context.
What the Chief of the Air Staff say in regard to the question raised by the PAC is open to debate but the head in sand won’t work and rumor is it wont be that long before many might be subsumed any way, allegedly! I personally wouldn’t complain too much.
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Ref PNVS post-Must be some mileage there- or at least the Air Sec who chaired a meeting before the mass collection of Laarbruchs aircrew in the 70's(all commisioned of course) clearly believed along those lines.When asked by Flt Lt Bloggs "Why don't we have any NCO aircrew any more"(meaning pilots /navs) the Air Sec replied "We do...... we just call them Flt Lts" deliberately omitting the DEC A/B bit!.
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Apologies to all NCO aircrew for any suggestion that they might be compared with the DEC Flt Lt's of that era.
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Apologies to all NCO aircrew for any suggestion that they might be compared with the DEC Flt Lt's of that era.
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Some of you RAF chaps might want to look at AAC SNCO aircrew. Not to transfer you understand, pension is better on your side of the fence. But to look at the life style side of life. Sure, you chaps have the gratuity but these guys dont need to worry about being I/C pony club etc. Spec aircrew with promotional prospects (If youre under 38 anyway). You may hear them whine a tad but thats just the usual. Top of the tree.
Best job in the Army? SNCO aircrew...pilot. Good pay, great job and everyone wants to be you (regardless what they say!). All that from a secondary modern education at most and nowt more than a court order in 1976 for TWOCing.
The real enemy is the shiny arse types who failed selection but still continue to guide your career.
Best job in the Army? SNCO aircrew...pilot. Good pay, great job and everyone wants to be you (regardless what they say!). All that from a secondary modern education at most and nowt more than a court order in 1976 for TWOCing.
The real enemy is the shiny arse types who failed selection but still continue to guide your career.
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I apologise for going off at a tangent, but during World War II the vast majority of aircrew in all services except possibly the FAA were young NCO aircrew, particularly in RAF Bomber Command. "Cometh the hour, cometh the men"
