Defence Cuts.........
Thread Starter
Defence Cuts.........
It seems that Trust-me Tone's poodle act with Mad George in Iraq has cost the UK defence budget dear:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...887132,00.html
"MINISTERS are planning to cut the size of the armed forces and to slash spending on conventional weapons in a radical rejig that could save billions of pounds"
(Sorry, overseas readers - the ST won't let you log on for free)
Do I hear the sound of pins being taken out of several black and yellows?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...887132,00.html
"MINISTERS are planning to cut the size of the armed forces and to slash spending on conventional weapons in a radical rejig that could save billions of pounds"
(Sorry, overseas readers - the ST won't let you log on for free)
Do I hear the sound of pins being taken out of several black and yellows?
That's not cynical.
That's naive !
To improve our capability and effectivness, cut the budget by £1bn per year. Need Alastair Campbell back to make sense of that one.
3 thoughts -
a) How on earth has Buff survived this long?
b) Surely even he would leave is this is put through?
c) Who does he think he would be in charge of if it is put through?
That's naive !
To improve our capability and effectivness, cut the budget by £1bn per year. Need Alastair Campbell back to make sense of that one.
3 thoughts -
a) How on earth has Buff survived this long?
b) Surely even he would leave is this is put through?
c) Who does he think he would be in charge of if it is put through?
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SDR, Betts, Options........ just keep having reviews until you find one you can afford.
Coupled with "politically correct" procurement and it is not hard to see how we have arrived at this sad state of affairs.
The pins were pulled on lots of black and yellows long ago, it is how much pressure you apply before they go off, and there have been a few bangs of late.
To those left, stay happy, remember " things can only get better " (or at the very least, the bat will start to hurt less with every insertion)
Coupled with "politically correct" procurement and it is not hard to see how we have arrived at this sad state of affairs.
The pins were pulled on lots of black and yellows long ago, it is how much pressure you apply before they go off, and there have been a few bangs of late.
To those left, stay happy, remember " things can only get better " (or at the very least, the bat will start to hurt less with every insertion)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Good plan really.
Let Buff launch the plan, fire him, and you keep your options open.
Let Buff launch the plan, fire him, and you keep your options open.
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Sunday Torygraph reported that MOD is trying to write-off over £1.5 bn due to projects being cancelled - £1.5 bn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Radar for the SHAR, soon to go out of service! A dry dock for nuclear subs that was too big! Not to mention the £5bn overbudget Typhoon.
Now they want to cut the budget - so much for smart procurement.
Radar for the SHAR, soon to go out of service! A dry dock for nuclear subs that was too big! Not to mention the £5bn overbudget Typhoon.
Now they want to cut the budget - so much for smart procurement.
Many of the commitments made in the SDR have been abandoned - witness the loss of the Sea Harrier (see the Sea Jet thread), the fact that frigates/destroyer numbers have dropped below the minimum of 32 that the SDR said (despite the increase in operational tempo), only four RAF air defence sqaudrons despite that fact that the SDR said FIVE was the minimum needed (and that was before 9/11) etc etc etc....
More commitments + more threats + fewer assets + fewer people + reduced funding* = SERVERE problems.
* Despite all the talk of extra money for defence, the UK defence budget is less (in real terms or as a percentage of Government spending) that when Labour won the 1997 election.
More commitments + more threats + fewer assets + fewer people + reduced funding* = SERVERE problems.
* Despite all the talk of extra money for defence, the UK defence budget is less (in real terms or as a percentage of Government spending) that when Labour won the 1997 election.
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Well there's only two courses of action available here isn't there?
Vote with your feet and get another job,
OR
Stick it out and work harder with fewer resources for no thanks at all.
Dress it up as much as you like, but it is the bottom line.
Vote with your feet and get another job,
OR
Stick it out and work harder with fewer resources for no thanks at all.
Dress it up as much as you like, but it is the bottom line.
Thread Starter
.....and indications are that airlines are starting to ring people up again! The recovery in the industry is just about to start (unless MYT goes under and floods the market with pilots?).
When is the next election? I do hope that there'll be enough people to vote this bunch out of office.
When is the next election? I do hope that there'll be enough people to vote this bunch out of office.
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And replace them with who exactly?
My black and yellow is being pulled at the end of the month, that'll be 22 years thank you very much. Can't abide the thought of continuing to serve an organisation that is badly led, badly equipped and taken for granted!
Rant over
My black and yellow is being pulled at the end of the month, that'll be 22 years thank you very much. Can't abide the thought of continuing to serve an organisation that is badly led, badly equipped and taken for granted!
Rant over
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I was going to start a new topic to ask this but it may fit in better here after MilOp's rant.
I have met several people who say similar things and appear totally disillusioned with leadership/kit/time away etc. However, despite this they put up with it and still motivate themselves to give everything to their jobs. Now is it just making the best of a bad lot or actually because it's not actually that bad? Whatever the answer I was wondering what people do to motivate themselves through the low times when morale is dwindling-sure it can't be for the money.......?
I have met several people who say similar things and appear totally disillusioned with leadership/kit/time away etc. However, despite this they put up with it and still motivate themselves to give everything to their jobs. Now is it just making the best of a bad lot or actually because it's not actually that bad? Whatever the answer I was wondering what people do to motivate themselves through the low times when morale is dwindling-sure it can't be for the money.......?
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RC: Having left the Navy a few years ago, and having carved out a relatively decent existence in civvy aviation, you could be forgiven for meeting men like me and thinking all is rosey in the garden outside of the Forces.. however, show me an ex serviceman with job security, I'll show you a naive fool. Show me a guy earning the big pounds, I'll show you a guy with no life outside of work. Of course I am generalising here, and there are a few who do well, and never look back (I class myself as one), but never lose sight of the fact that more often than not, the grass isn't any greener.
As for the post sept 11th effect, recovery?? Lets wait and see.
And in answer to your motivation question, we do it because thats the type of people we are. We knew that nobody else would do it, and that is why we prided ourselves on being the most professional armed services in the world.
Very patriotic I know, but we were a "can do, will do, one way or another" organisation. Trouble is we covered up inadequate policies by "Just doing it".
As for the post sept 11th effect, recovery?? Lets wait and see.
And in answer to your motivation question, we do it because thats the type of people we are. We knew that nobody else would do it, and that is why we prided ourselves on being the most professional armed services in the world.
Very patriotic I know, but we were a "can do, will do, one way or another" organisation. Trouble is we covered up inadequate policies by "Just doing it".
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Noble sentiments MB
Sadly I think the boys are in general very p
ed off. They also realise that things are very unlikely to get better. It's a quart/pint-pot thing. I think that perhaps you are the one being naive.
Sadly I think the boys are in general very p
ed off. They also realise that things are very unlikely to get better. It's a quart/pint-pot thing. I think that perhaps you are the one being naive.
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I have just finished after 24 years and have started a job in police aviation. The pay cut is massive, nearly 20 grand, although the pension will offset that a bit. I am now doing the main attraction... flying. No niff naff and trivia. That is my choice, just remember that despite all the bad bits, the forces lifestyle is pretty good. Do not believe the bull about all those highly paid cushy jobs out here, it is simply not true. Job security?? Insurance policies are now required for everything. The grass is a similar shade over this fence.
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The grass isn't greener out here, but it is green enough AND it's a different type of grass!!
The money isn't as good as in the Forces but I don't have to spend lots of nights away, do all the niff naff and trivia etc etc. I don't have to look over my shoulder to see where Tonys next overseas event will take me!
I haven't laughed so much in ages, going to work is a real pleasure and I have the blood pressure of an 18 year old!!
Now if I could only have the body!!!
The money isn't as good as in the Forces but I don't have to spend lots of nights away, do all the niff naff and trivia etc etc. I don't have to look over my shoulder to see where Tonys next overseas event will take me!
I haven't laughed so much in ages, going to work is a real pleasure and I have the blood pressure of an 18 year old!!
Now if I could only have the body!!!
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I guess it's just quite disheartening when you're relatively new to the service to hear negative comments from those you look up to for their pearls of wisdom, not to mention their motivating war stories. Luckily I'm still blessed with the enthusiasm of youth and just want to crack on and learn my trade to the full-i suppose I'll become cynical enough myself in my own time. It just amazes me that people can be so cynical and complain so much but still carry on and give 100% to their jobs. Patriotic or not MB, it is testiment to the grit and attitude required in the modern day force i guess. Should have added this to the 'I love my job thread'!
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Chaps,
Having read posts subsequent to mine I thought that my rant deserved an explanation.
My 22 years in the RAF has been spent on the ground in a non aircrew role and on the lowest payband. I have never complained about this as military aircraft operations is my bag and I've enjoyed it immensely. However I'm older now,my expectations of life have changed and more importantly my pay is no longer competetive.
The majority of posters here appear to be aircrew, and commissioned to boot, so therefore your pay and conditions are very favourable. This therefore is why I see a lot of this 'Grass is not greener' mentality, and granted in your cases that may well be the case. However what about personal satisfaction, sense of achievement, worthwhile responsibility et al? For me, a SNCO FOM, there is nothing that would induce me to stay, Flight Sergeant offers nothing, and as for WO, well would you relish the idea of working in the NOTAM office at Heathrow? I don't! My trade is run by Air Traffikers who are a cancer and have mis managed the trade for years and as for Flight Ops Officers.........
Don't misunderstand me , I believe to the very core of my being that military service is one of the finest contibutions an individual can make to society. There clearly are ups and downs, but then what industry doesn't have the same? If it wasn't for the poor pay, crap career opportunities and numpties running my trade I wouldn't hesitate to do the full thing to 55, but I can earn more money doing pretty much anything.
Ah what a bout a comission you may suggest, well I have sat on the fence on that one and have been tempted but to be honest the commissioned lifestyle is not my bag. Plus I have no desire to become an Admin Sec or Supply Officer, and I certainly don't want to be a Flight Ops Officer, even though my service and experience would enable me to walk in seemlessly. I have no time for them and nor does anybody else it seems. So why should I waste effort preparing for that when I feel my intellect can be better spent more productively elsewhere.
No gentlemen the time has come to say goodbye. What will I do, simple go to university! my wife earns considerably more than me, but then that isn't hard.
Having read posts subsequent to mine I thought that my rant deserved an explanation.
My 22 years in the RAF has been spent on the ground in a non aircrew role and on the lowest payband. I have never complained about this as military aircraft operations is my bag and I've enjoyed it immensely. However I'm older now,my expectations of life have changed and more importantly my pay is no longer competetive.
The majority of posters here appear to be aircrew, and commissioned to boot, so therefore your pay and conditions are very favourable. This therefore is why I see a lot of this 'Grass is not greener' mentality, and granted in your cases that may well be the case. However what about personal satisfaction, sense of achievement, worthwhile responsibility et al? For me, a SNCO FOM, there is nothing that would induce me to stay, Flight Sergeant offers nothing, and as for WO, well would you relish the idea of working in the NOTAM office at Heathrow? I don't! My trade is run by Air Traffikers who are a cancer and have mis managed the trade for years and as for Flight Ops Officers.........
Don't misunderstand me , I believe to the very core of my being that military service is one of the finest contibutions an individual can make to society. There clearly are ups and downs, but then what industry doesn't have the same? If it wasn't for the poor pay, crap career opportunities and numpties running my trade I wouldn't hesitate to do the full thing to 55, but I can earn more money doing pretty much anything.
Ah what a bout a comission you may suggest, well I have sat on the fence on that one and have been tempted but to be honest the commissioned lifestyle is not my bag. Plus I have no desire to become an Admin Sec or Supply Officer, and I certainly don't want to be a Flight Ops Officer, even though my service and experience would enable me to walk in seemlessly. I have no time for them and nor does anybody else it seems. So why should I waste effort preparing for that when I feel my intellect can be better spent more productively elsewhere.
No gentlemen the time has come to say goodbye. What will I do, simple go to university! my wife earns considerably more than me, but then that isn't hard.