Latest on our pensions??
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Latest on our pensions??
is there any good news coming out of this awesome government about our pensions.... is someone like me who joined about 6 years ago still oing to get it at the 16/38 point?
his smile doesnt work for me, vote tory!!!
his smile doesnt work for me, vote tory!!!
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Pensions - Latest
Latest copy of the RAF News has quite a good (though strictly speaking, not official) summary. Transfer details are sparse, but I suspect few would want to tx to the new system.
Crash
Crash
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If you are in at the moment you can stay on the existing scheme, however at some point in the future you will be given the opportunity to transfer if you wish. All people joining after a certain date will automatically go onto the new scheme. Is this date going to be April 1 of some year. Significant if it is !! 
Oggin
Oggin
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Anyone who is in now can elect to remain in the present scheme.
However, can anyone tell me if one would be obliged to sign up to the new scheme on promotion? i.e. does one need to sign up to new terms of service on promotion and does this then include the new pension deal? Seems like a poor deal if you are forced to go on to the new scheme.
Beware of any scheme that is "cost neutral"... If there is no new money going into the new scheme then they need to be making savings somewhere else.
On initial inspection it seems like a very poor deal for those with some time left to serve. After the new scheme is implemented any time then served will no longer be available as a deferred pension at 55, whether you elect to transfer to the new scheme or not (need to wait until 65 - I think, willing to stand corrected on the age). And of course you will need to serve for an extra 2 years to get the immediate pension if you transfer to the new scheme. And in return what do we get? Enhanced death in service benefits, also available to unmarried partners. I personally think it would be better staying on the old system and ensuring you have adequate life insurance for those you will leave behind.
All of the above reasoning is based on the premise that you are an officer. I think the scheme has very real benefits for NCOs and junior ranks. Main bonus being that pension comes after 18 years, not 22.
Thanks but no thanks Mr Blair. And the statement from CDS didn't mention any of these concerns...
SBW
However, can anyone tell me if one would be obliged to sign up to the new scheme on promotion? i.e. does one need to sign up to new terms of service on promotion and does this then include the new pension deal? Seems like a poor deal if you are forced to go on to the new scheme.
Beware of any scheme that is "cost neutral"... If there is no new money going into the new scheme then they need to be making savings somewhere else.
On initial inspection it seems like a very poor deal for those with some time left to serve. After the new scheme is implemented any time then served will no longer be available as a deferred pension at 55, whether you elect to transfer to the new scheme or not (need to wait until 65 - I think, willing to stand corrected on the age). And of course you will need to serve for an extra 2 years to get the immediate pension if you transfer to the new scheme. And in return what do we get? Enhanced death in service benefits, also available to unmarried partners. I personally think it would be better staying on the old system and ensuring you have adequate life insurance for those you will leave behind.
All of the above reasoning is based on the premise that you are an officer. I think the scheme has very real benefits for NCOs and junior ranks. Main bonus being that pension comes after 18 years, not 22.
Thanks but no thanks Mr Blair. And the statement from CDS didn't mention any of these concerns...
SBW
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Sarboy
Your not suggesting that the Govt and our lords & masters made a glossy statement which sounds great but is utterly devoid of substance, surely not.
Re-engament, promotion etc will almost certainately be tied to the new scheme, watch this space.
Your not suggesting that the Govt and our lords & masters made a glossy statement which sounds great but is utterly devoid of substance, surely not.
Re-engament, promotion etc will almost certainately be tied to the new scheme, watch this space.
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Heaven forbid! I have complete faith in my lords and masters to look after my welfare and that of my brothers in arms, and to not put their personal advancement before their principles... Or alternatively, I'll just sit and watch them praise a system that means I'll get less money in my pocket...
It wouldn't be so bad if those that were in could elect to remain on the old system, come what may, but that just isn't the case. If I leave before the immediate pension point, I will still miss out on the years of service I put in between now and leaving, because I will have to wait much longer before getting the deferred pension for these years! And if I am forced to go onto the new system on promotion, I will have to serve longer before getting a pension, and the pension will be less. How can this be a good thing?
I await the spanking from P&SS for this with anticipation!
SBW
It wouldn't be so bad if those that were in could elect to remain on the old system, come what may, but that just isn't the case. If I leave before the immediate pension point, I will still miss out on the years of service I put in between now and leaving, because I will have to wait much longer before getting the deferred pension for these years! And if I am forced to go onto the new system on promotion, I will have to serve longer before getting a pension, and the pension will be less. How can this be a good thing?
I await the spanking from P&SS for this with anticipation!
SBW
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SBW
At the risk of sounding a manic depressive and utterly disillusioned. Since I joined the RAAF (that's Royal Accounts & Admin Farce), pre '89 terms of service, I've seen any number of benefits & perks drained away from us, and nothing in return. This pension scheme is just another such drain.
Lets be honest, when did we last get a decent pay rise? In the last 12 months, we've covered the Fire dispute, fought a war, the war against terror (who says the Americans don't understand irony), as well as our usual duties. Will we get a decent pay rise next year? Of course not, there's a huge hole in the public purse and we're a far way down the political agenda.
Hence I'm finishing my 22 and then I'm outta here, unless there's a radical change for the better (I'm not holding my breath though).
Now where did I put my Valium? Oh sod it I'll have another glass of vino instead
At the risk of sounding a manic depressive and utterly disillusioned. Since I joined the RAAF (that's Royal Accounts & Admin Farce), pre '89 terms of service, I've seen any number of benefits & perks drained away from us, and nothing in return. This pension scheme is just another such drain.
Lets be honest, when did we last get a decent pay rise? In the last 12 months, we've covered the Fire dispute, fought a war, the war against terror (who says the Americans don't understand irony), as well as our usual duties. Will we get a decent pay rise next year? Of course not, there's a huge hole in the public purse and we're a far way down the political agenda.
Hence I'm finishing my 22 and then I'm outta here, unless there's a radical change for the better (I'm not holding my breath though).
Now where did I put my Valium? Oh sod it I'll have another glass of vino instead
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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And let us not forget the tradition of we have had a major conflict: Let us now reduceth thy funding to ensureth that we can never do it again!!
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As I said there's a hole in the purse, and you always cut back on insurance first.
The Gorilla
Have you left yet?
When are you going to let us know about what happened in the Gulf?
The Gorilla
Have you left yet?
When are you going to let us know about what happened in the Gulf?
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To answer a few misperceptions:
1. If you are in the current AFPS you do not have to transfer to the new scheme even if you get promoted. The only time this might occur if you leave the Services and rejoin.
2. At some point in the future serving members will be given the choice to join the new scheme. If they do not choose to transfer the option will not be given again.
3. The cost saving to make it cost neutral will come from the fact that a deferred pension if you leave before the IPP will be paid at 65 not 60. Also your immediate pension will be paid 2 years later for officers. The third way may be if you leave after IPP and before 55 - the payments may well be less than the immediate pension you would receive under the current scheme. They have yet to announce what these payments would be.
4. The improvements are the death in service payments which could be mitigated by separate life insurance. The final pension at 55 will be 50 % of the final salary i.e. the largest sum over the last 3 years of service which is potentially better than the current scheme where the pension is based on representative salary.
I am an interested party and not the management so all my info is drawn from the pubs that are freely available to all.
GB2
1. If you are in the current AFPS you do not have to transfer to the new scheme even if you get promoted. The only time this might occur if you leave the Services and rejoin.
2. At some point in the future serving members will be given the choice to join the new scheme. If they do not choose to transfer the option will not be given again.
3. The cost saving to make it cost neutral will come from the fact that a deferred pension if you leave before the IPP will be paid at 65 not 60. Also your immediate pension will be paid 2 years later for officers. The third way may be if you leave after IPP and before 55 - the payments may well be less than the immediate pension you would receive under the current scheme. They have yet to announce what these payments would be.
4. The improvements are the death in service payments which could be mitigated by separate life insurance. The final pension at 55 will be 50 % of the final salary i.e. the largest sum over the last 3 years of service which is potentially better than the current scheme where the pension is based on representative salary.
I am an interested party and not the management so all my info is drawn from the pubs that are freely available to all.
GB2
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There are a few other anomalies that you should consider before you think about switching from old to new.
The paraphernalia that came with the announcement makes mention of an income stream for those who leave between IPP and 55 and not an immediate pension as at present . Clearly the enhanced full career benefits will have to be paid for, and given the statistical longevity, or lack thereof, for military personnel on retirement, the change from 60 to 65 for preserved pensions will not make an earth shattering difference to the final bill. It is very clear from the documentation that immediate pensions will be in a different form than at present and it also states clearly that they will be of a lesser value than at present.
In a nutshell, the new scheme is great if you intend to stay for a full career to 55, but if there is any question of you leaving before 55, then I suggest very close scrutiny of what is on offer when the figures are finally published.
Hanging in a Belfry.......
The paraphernalia that came with the announcement makes mention of an income stream for those who leave between IPP and 55 and not an immediate pension as at present . Clearly the enhanced full career benefits will have to be paid for, and given the statistical longevity, or lack thereof, for military personnel on retirement, the change from 60 to 65 for preserved pensions will not make an earth shattering difference to the final bill. It is very clear from the documentation that immediate pensions will be in a different form than at present and it also states clearly that they will be of a lesser value than at present.
In a nutshell, the new scheme is great if you intend to stay for a full career to 55, but if there is any question of you leaving before 55, then I suggest very close scrutiny of what is on offer when the figures are finally published.
Hanging in a Belfry.......
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Latest on Immediate Pensions under new scheme published. At first glance new IPP pension is significantly worse £6000 for a Major or equivalent at 40/18 yr point with about £36K lump sum compared to £12000 and £36K lump sum. Rises to £9000 index linked at 55, then £12000 index linked at 65 with another lump sum of £36K.
Current pension £12000 at 38/16 with £36K untill 55 then £12K index linked tfn. Overall a rough calc means you'll be about £90K out of pocket if you switch to the new scheme and leave at 40/18.
GB2
Current pension £12000 at 38/16 with £36K untill 55 then £12K index linked tfn. Overall a rough calc means you'll be about £90K out of pocket if you switch to the new scheme and leave at 40/18.
GB2
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GB2,
Have you got a link to those figures. From what you post am I correct in assuming that if you do the full "stay till 55" bit you will no longer get your full pension but have to wait another 10 years.
ie on retirement after 30 odd years service you will have to get another job out of necessity not out of personal choice.
Have you got a link to those figures. From what you post am I correct in assuming that if you do the full "stay till 55" bit you will no longer get your full pension but have to wait another 10 years.
ie on retirement after 30 odd years service you will have to get another job out of necessity not out of personal choice.
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Green Bottle is right; if you are on the old scheme, you do not have to change if you don't want to. Decision date is April 2007. All new entrants from Apr 2005 will automatically go onto new scheme.
Stan
If you leave at 18/40 point, you get 50% of accrued annual preserved pension entitlement. Every year after 18/40, the amount goes up 1.66% up to age 55, by which time it should be about 75% (I haven't done the sums!). If you leave at 55, you get 75% of accrued annual etc and at 65, you get the full pension adjusted for RPI.
The "lump sum" paid on retirement has been split into 2 payments; 50% when you leave, the rest at 65.
Stan
If you leave at 18/40 point, you get 50% of accrued annual preserved pension entitlement. Every year after 18/40, the amount goes up 1.66% up to age 55, by which time it should be about 75% (I haven't done the sums!). If you leave at 55, you get 75% of accrued annual etc and at 65, you get the full pension adjusted for RPI.
The "lump sum" paid on retirement has been split into 2 payments; 50% when you leave, the rest at 65.
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Looking at the figures Ive made my mind up like most. Perhaps they will "enforce" you to change to the new system through promotion and extension of service, because I cant see many takers otherwise.
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Is this Apr 05 date for certain? Can you enter old scheme immediately on joining?
I ask as I'm starting IOT at the end of May, and the general feeling I'm getting here is I would be better off on the old scheme?
I ask as I'm starting IOT at the end of May, and the general feeling I'm getting here is I would be better off on the old scheme?
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I left the mob in 1999 as a TG1 Chf Tech after 29 (fun filled ) years, I hit 55 in 2007 so does anyone have anything to offer on whether or not the changes to pensions will affect me.
It seems that there is mucho discontent amongst you all on the inside , but I get nothing in the post from the Pensions People except the annual Tax Bill so am not in the loop to what is going on inside.
It seems strange (well it doesnt actuall) to me that yet again the shinnees are messing with pensions, its obviously a way of NOT paying for service and another way of trying to scrimp and save, there were rumours flying when I was about to leave about Pension changes but I got ouyt instead. Typical really the old adage "2 days after you left "WHO ARE YOU THEN" still stands
O Please someone cheer me up.
BT
It seems that there is mucho discontent amongst you all on the inside , but I get nothing in the post from the Pensions People except the annual Tax Bill so am not in the loop to what is going on inside.
It seems strange (well it doesnt actuall) to me that yet again the shinnees are messing with pensions, its obviously a way of NOT paying for service and another way of trying to scrimp and save, there were rumours flying when I was about to leave about Pension changes but I got ouyt instead. Typical really the old adage "2 days after you left "WHO ARE YOU THEN" still stands
O Please someone cheer me up.
BT
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robinxe, the best advice would be to stick with the current scheme which you will begin IOT with and make a decision later when all the detail has been clarified. However, it looks to me that nobody in their right mind would want to transfer to the new scheme.
According to a shiny purple leaflet that dropped into my in-tray today the new scheme is 'planned' to be introduced for new entrants in April 2005. It states:
"Currently serving members of the Armed Forces will have the opportunity to join the new scheme as soon as possible after that, and no later than April 2007, depending on how quickly delivery systems can be put in place"
Reading between the lines i would guess that the deadline will probably be extended as provision of 'delivery systems ' will probably warrant another overrunning, waste-of-money PFI contract for the provision of a few reconditioned PCs.
On another note, the leaflet i have explains that unmarried partners will be able to be registered as a 'substantial partner' allowing them to receive any death in service benefits or pensions in the event of death. Will this facility also be extended to the existing pensions scheme?
According to a shiny purple leaflet that dropped into my in-tray today the new scheme is 'planned' to be introduced for new entrants in April 2005. It states:
"Currently serving members of the Armed Forces will have the opportunity to join the new scheme as soon as possible after that, and no later than April 2007, depending on how quickly delivery systems can be put in place"
Reading between the lines i would guess that the deadline will probably be extended as provision of 'delivery systems ' will probably warrant another overrunning, waste-of-money PFI contract for the provision of a few reconditioned PCs.
On another note, the leaflet i have explains that unmarried partners will be able to be registered as a 'substantial partner' allowing them to receive any death in service benefits or pensions in the event of death. Will this facility also be extended to the existing pensions scheme?
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bluetail
I think your going to be all right, as you have "Grandfather" rights.
May be worth a letter to the pensions board for clarification though
I expect, although several years to go until my IP point, that I should attract exactly the same deal as yourself, unless "They" come up with devious schemes to get you to sign away the "Right". Just as they did with JTs following fitter courses in the 80's with their time promotion to Cpl. Too many good muckers lost at the 12 yr point with that.
LTB
I think your going to be all right, as you have "Grandfather" rights.
May be worth a letter to the pensions board for clarification though
I expect, although several years to go until my IP point, that I should attract exactly the same deal as yourself, unless "They" come up with devious schemes to get you to sign away the "Right". Just as they did with JTs following fitter courses in the 80's with their time promotion to Cpl. Too many good muckers lost at the 12 yr point with that.
LTB