New Helicopter For Sar Force
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lichfield UK
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Danes don't operate Sea Kings at all!!! They have been one of the few miltary operators of the Sikorsky S61 for over 2 decades. Ok at the end of the day its a Sea King but lets be accurate!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keepin It In Trim – The hoist on the 101 is in a crap position on the RN and RAF variant. You can get the cable to scrape down the sponson and aircraft side quite nicely if you don’t pay attention (ie fight the cable), but I thought the Canadians ditched the silly swing out hydraulic hoist and had twin electric hoists mounted over the middle of the door? This may have changed from last time I heard anything about it.
I know their was a mod to make the swing out hoist come out and round further, and it had a bracing strut of some description, but I left before it got fitted. Bet you still couldn’t get a stretcher in though. You could also use the wheel as a hand hold to stop yourself spinning, which is handy if your trying to get the stretcher around the sponson and in through the door.
The only thing I ever lifted was big bags of lead shot, and that was difficult enough with the positioning of door/sponson/hoist, I wouldn't like to try it with a live bod on the end.
I know their was a mod to make the swing out hoist come out and round further, and it had a bracing strut of some description, but I left before it got fitted. Bet you still couldn’t get a stretcher in though. You could also use the wheel as a hand hold to stop yourself spinning, which is handy if your trying to get the stretcher around the sponson and in through the door.
The only thing I ever lifted was big bags of lead shot, and that was difficult enough with the positioning of door/sponson/hoist, I wouldn't like to try it with a live bod on the end.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North of somewhere south
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reading between the lines and looking from the situation from one end of the med, I would suggest that the Griffin in Cyprus is far from a success. It no doubt will be, but it will take a couple of years and no doubt a shed load of cash to sort it out, and we only have the aircraft for 5 years anyway.
as far as I understand you cannot get 2 ejectee casualties on board in stretchers and then work on them for 1/2 hour that would be required if collecting someone from the furthest point that the fast jets operate. Surely that makes the aircraft either:
a: unsuitable for SAR as the RAF practise it.
b: unsuitable for purpose at the moment and therefore has no business holding aSAR standby until these issues have been resolved.
I guess, like the Sea King Force, once you start living with it then you will be stuck with it for many years to come.
Fortunately for the SARF the MRT stretchers will not fit in the aircraft anyway, so it will be F*** all use over here.
as far as I understand you cannot get 2 ejectee casualties on board in stretchers and then work on them for 1/2 hour that would be required if collecting someone from the furthest point that the fast jets operate. Surely that makes the aircraft either:
a: unsuitable for SAR as the RAF practise it.
b: unsuitable for purpose at the moment and therefore has no business holding aSAR standby until these issues have been resolved.
I guess, like the Sea King Force, once you start living with it then you will be stuck with it for many years to come.
Fortunately for the SARF the MRT stretchers will not fit in the aircraft anyway, so it will be F*** all use over here.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sunny Florida, USA
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EH101 for SAR?
As somebody who was recently winched out of the sea (as part of a drill) by a Merlin helicopter I can vouch that it was not at all a pleasant experience. I was faced with a vicious sea chop that almost upturned me a few times, I could not keep my eyes open against the 150mph spray and it as the aircraft was winching from such a high hover (using the auto hover from the back door) it took 15 minutes to eventually snare me in the strop!
The Merlin has a great number of attributes that are being succesfully used across the SH and HM Fleet, but it does have shortfalls as a SAR aircraft, despite the claimed success of Cormorant! The requirements for the future SAR aircraft need to be carefully crafted - 2 different aircraft types may well be the answer but support costs must increase. It will no doubt be an interesting debate!
The Merlin has a great number of attributes that are being succesfully used across the SH and HM Fleet, but it does have shortfalls as a SAR aircraft, despite the claimed success of Cormorant! The requirements for the future SAR aircraft need to be carefully crafted - 2 different aircraft types may well be the answer but support costs must increase. It will no doubt be an interesting debate!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Second star on the left
Posts: 124
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear OOPs
Don't know where you got your information about the Griffin from, but you are a little acerbic for one with so little fact and so much rumour. Speak to the guys on the Sqn and get the facts, it isn't a perfect solution but it could have been an awful lot worse. You can pick up 2 ejectees and work on them, but not as well as in some of the other platforms in service. You pays your money and put up with the restrictions. You don't get a Rolls Royce solution for Nissan prices.
Heads down, look out for the flack.
Don't know where you got your information about the Griffin from, but you are a little acerbic for one with so little fact and so much rumour. Speak to the guys on the Sqn and get the facts, it isn't a perfect solution but it could have been an awful lot worse. You can pick up 2 ejectees and work on them, but not as well as in some of the other platforms in service. You pays your money and put up with the restrictions. You don't get a Rolls Royce solution for Nissan prices.
Heads down, look out for the flack.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chatting to 84 Sqn boys a few weeks ago I hear that 30% of the below stairs bods are off sick with back complaints.
With an attrition rate like that, they'll be vacancies for stop-gap detachees in no time at all.
Just a rumour, but from the horse's mouth.
With an attrition rate like that, they'll be vacancies for stop-gap detachees in no time at all.
Just a rumour, but from the horse's mouth.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ferret - I can also vouch for the strength of downdraft, having had to move from well outside the downwash to directly underneath for ext PA testing, a/c in 60 ft hover. It gets very difficult to walk forwards, almost to the point of being impossible. But, much like a hurricane, it gets suddenly easier near the underneath. I have also watched others try to do this (from the comfort of looking through the RAF variant floor), so it wasn't just me being lardy and unfit.
Did they manage to get you in without banging into the sponson, or using the wheel as a handy support?
I know wind speed measurements in the downwash were done, but haven't got a clue what the results were.
Did they manage to get you in without banging into the sponson, or using the wheel as a handy support?
I know wind speed measurements in the downwash were done, but haven't got a clue what the results were.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the last public statement from the UK SAR Helicopter Harmonisation and Procurement Steering Group in July 2002 was that:
"To date, no decision has been made on whether the MCA and MoD will jointly acquire a future SAR capability;
To date, no decision has been made on whether PFI or conventional acquisition is more appropriate for the procurement of the future UK SAR capability."
According to the DPA web site:
"PFI remains an option for Training and all, or part, of the SAR requirement."
"To date, no decision has been made on whether the MCA and MoD will jointly acquire a future SAR capability;
To date, no decision has been made on whether PFI or conventional acquisition is more appropriate for the procurement of the future UK SAR capability."
According to the DPA web site:
"PFI remains an option for Training and all, or part, of the SAR requirement."
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sunny Florida, USA
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pick Up!
Straight up Again - Amazingly they did manage to get me into the cabin without smashing me into either the sponson or the wheels - maybe it would have been different if there were twin wheels on this particular variant but don't get me started on that one! There was alot of fending off though and it was not a particularly confortable ride as the strop had not been properly placed in the small of my back before lifting - probably due to the massive amount of spray preventing good vision! At least I live to tell the tale!
