Tornado F3 maximum speed?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bristol
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Managed M1.8 at 6,000' in a Tornado F3 some 10 years ago. Sure somebody will top this? But it made the old Mighty Fin sing like a tuning fork. Incidently it was 1375Kts ground-speed on the TV Tabs.
Didn't select IAS in the HUD, beauty of older technology is that you can select the display of IAS or Mach but not both (I wasn't busting the Mach Limit!)
All ended in tears when the left reheat blew out and both DECU's lost control for a while. Deceleration was probably more impressive then the acceleration, especially for the nav who smacked his helmet on the TV Tabs and stayed stuck there whilst calling me a ****.
Wouldn't do it nowadays as too many people have tested the burning qualities of titanium.
F15 will out accelerate F3 to 550kts (just) but then it kind of stops.
Different story in dry power only - F3 is quick but no prizes for fuel efficiency.
Didn't select IAS in the HUD, beauty of older technology is that you can select the display of IAS or Mach but not both (I wasn't busting the Mach Limit!)
All ended in tears when the left reheat blew out and both DECU's lost control for a while. Deceleration was probably more impressive then the acceleration, especially for the nav who smacked his helmet on the TV Tabs and stayed stuck there whilst calling me a ****.
Wouldn't do it nowadays as too many people have tested the burning qualities of titanium.
F15 will out accelerate F3 to 550kts (just) but then it kind of stops.
Different story in dry power only - F3 is quick but no prizes for fuel efficiency.
Thread Starter
Slightly OT but am I the only person in the world to have read and thoroughly enjoyed Bob Prest's book 'F-4 Phantom?'. IMHO it's one of the finest books ever written about FJ operations -- wonderful stuff.
When he reads this thread, my cadet is going to ask me whether Vne for a fast jet varies a great deal with height (translation: his instructor wants to know before he gets asked the awkward question!) I assume it also varies quite a lot with fit?
Just to put it all in perspective, the Vigilant has a Vne of 121kts. I suspect most current fast jets stall at higher speeds than that!
John
When he reads this thread, my cadet is going to ask me whether Vne for a fast jet varies a great deal with height (translation: his instructor wants to know before he gets asked the awkward question!) I assume it also varies quite a lot with fit?
Just to put it all in perspective, the Vigilant has a Vne of 121kts. I suspect most current fast jets stall at higher speeds than that!
John
Thread Starter
Out of interest -- and I know I started this thread and apologise for the drift (although it's extremely interesting) -- is the book pretty true to life? It certainly feels it to the lay reader.
John
John
Personal Best
11yrs on the Lincolnshire Land Shark and these are my best scores:
870kts IAS @ LL (with missiles!).
M2.1 @ 43,000 and very short of fuel (even more so when the re-heat purged passing the gate!).
Chased down B1-B in Denmark (O'sea) and also F-111s in Alaska.
Never got to try it against a Fencer as he ran away at 60 miles!
LJ
870kts IAS @ LL (with missiles!).
M2.1 @ 43,000 and very short of fuel (even more so when the re-heat purged passing the gate!).
Chased down B1-B in Denmark (O'sea) and also F-111s in Alaska.
Never got to try it against a Fencer as he ran away at 60 miles!
LJ
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Newcastle/UK
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I enjoyed the two Johns second book Team Tornado, but what the hell do I know, I only ever drove a 62000 ton supertanker, they did about 15 knotts.
Well, 62000 ton, was a super tanker then.
Well, 62000 ton, was a super tanker then.
Music Quizmeister
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Can'tberra, ACT Australia
Age: 67
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup - read Rob Prest's book a few years ago.
Hey Tony - how long did it take the 60,ooo ton tanker to accelerate from stationary to 15 knots?
3 weeks?
Hey Tony - how long did it take the 60,ooo ton tanker to accelerate from stationary to 15 knots?
3 weeks?
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Bit nosey aren't you
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standby for blah dihorrea! Eat your heart out Beags
Osbo,
Haven't bothered doing the sums, the long winter nights fly past quickly enough as it is.
A nice thought of yours, but, that would only apply if the acceleration were linear and due to the bypass design of the F3's donks, it only starts to get going when it gets some ram effect. Accel from say 250-300 takes much longer than from say 500-550. Obviously the jet will catch you shortly thereafter.
The other end of the same stick. Once as a first tourist I intercepted a Bear D in my shiny new hot pursuit ship. Felt the bees knees, waved the piccys and then looked on embarrassed as it out climbed me when the AoA got to max and the bernoullis fell off the wing. It was no consolation to me that I whistled past him about 3 times and waved for a couple of seconds on the way.
Pope,
Did I tell you about when I reached warp 7 at 3 inches, now thats bl**dy fast
Orac,
You are right about a lot of the stats but it depends how clean and new the jet really is.
Late 80s had to pick up a totally clean jet (No Laus or anything) from Coningsby for delivery to Leeming. Managed to get just over 2.15 before the talking fuel gauge started bleating about the fuel. Walked into the crewroom proud as punch, told the QFI and he reminded me that 2.2 was the BAe brochure limit and the old release to service thing was 2.0M. He then invited me to hang my spurs up..
Mid 90s flew the detuned blighters with aqui rounds on and couldn't get past 1.5 with a lead weight attached. How times had changed
Mate of mine flew an F-15E small donk without conformals and totally clean on a flight back from maintenance in Ga. (The clean jet with 229s is still strapped to the pad at the Cape) They got to just over 2.3 and it was pulling like mad (Limit 2.5) before the pesky stab decided to give up the ghost.
Ghost
Did I tell you about when....
....All the blahring has worn me out, off back to my bath chair
Osbo,
Haven't bothered doing the sums, the long winter nights fly past quickly enough as it is.
A nice thought of yours, but, that would only apply if the acceleration were linear and due to the bypass design of the F3's donks, it only starts to get going when it gets some ram effect. Accel from say 250-300 takes much longer than from say 500-550. Obviously the jet will catch you shortly thereafter.
The other end of the same stick. Once as a first tourist I intercepted a Bear D in my shiny new hot pursuit ship. Felt the bees knees, waved the piccys and then looked on embarrassed as it out climbed me when the AoA got to max and the bernoullis fell off the wing. It was no consolation to me that I whistled past him about 3 times and waved for a couple of seconds on the way.
Pope,
Did I tell you about when I reached warp 7 at 3 inches, now thats bl**dy fast
Orac,
You are right about a lot of the stats but it depends how clean and new the jet really is.
Late 80s had to pick up a totally clean jet (No Laus or anything) from Coningsby for delivery to Leeming. Managed to get just over 2.15 before the talking fuel gauge started bleating about the fuel. Walked into the crewroom proud as punch, told the QFI and he reminded me that 2.2 was the BAe brochure limit and the old release to service thing was 2.0M. He then invited me to hang my spurs up..
Mid 90s flew the detuned blighters with aqui rounds on and couldn't get past 1.5 with a lead weight attached. How times had changed
Mate of mine flew an F-15E small donk without conformals and totally clean on a flight back from maintenance in Ga. (The clean jet with 229s is still strapped to the pad at the Cape) They got to just over 2.3 and it was pulling like mad (Limit 2.5) before the pesky stab decided to give up the ghost.
Ghost
Did I tell you about when....
....All the blahring has worn me out, off back to my bath chair
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Muscat, Oman
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Loved the IAS/Mach selector in the F-3 HUD. Once saw 8 hundred and lots when I flicked to IAS so flicked it back to Mach where it was still within the Release to Service limits! The F-3 was supposed to be the fastest accelerating aircraft in the world (at low level), much better than the GR due to better area ruling with the extended fuselage. But, did hear of a Fulcrum or Flanker that left a very fast F-16 for dead in Scandanavia.
Did the TWU on the Hunter (admittedly the heavier Mk 9) and the first solo was to go at 2000 ft down the coast with the throttle in the top left corner and see what you could get. Can remember seeing the shock waves starting to form over those bumps out on the wing, going just subsonic. Loved that aircraft.
Lightning was fast but couldn't get near the F-3 top speed at low level. Think the F-4 was the same. They both ended up going sideways!
Spoke with some B-1B guys a while ago. If they get bounced by a fighter they select full reheat and leave it there for an hour, running Mach 1 plus at low level. No fighter is going to stay with that. They also said that if the tanker was short of gas, they could pump it back up the boom!
Did the TWU on the Hunter (admittedly the heavier Mk 9) and the first solo was to go at 2000 ft down the coast with the throttle in the top left corner and see what you could get. Can remember seeing the shock waves starting to form over those bumps out on the wing, going just subsonic. Loved that aircraft.
Lightning was fast but couldn't get near the F-3 top speed at low level. Think the F-4 was the same. They both ended up going sideways!
Spoke with some B-1B guys a while ago. If they get bounced by a fighter they select full reheat and leave it there for an hour, running Mach 1 plus at low level. No fighter is going to stay with that. They also said that if the tanker was short of gas, they could pump it back up the boom!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Newcastle/UK
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think a modified civilian owned F104 still has the low alt, high speed dash record.
And of course Thrust 2., although I think another F104 sans wings and wheel fitted us going after Thrust 2s pelt.
And of course Thrust 2., although I think another F104 sans wings and wheel fitted us going after Thrust 2s pelt.
Are you referring to Thrust 2 or Dead Dog's Thrust SSC? Which, I am proud to say, was something I was proud to support to the tune of a few hundred quid or so (Spec Aircrew small change!).
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If said F3 ran out of Diesel whilst at full chat,
would it:-
manage to glide to a landing point(if one was available)
manage to land without engines,
Has it ever happened?
would it:-
manage to glide to a landing point(if one was available)
manage to land without engines,
Has it ever happened?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Overlooking the beach, NZ
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The top speed for the F3 is pretty irrelevant at the moment. The RAF FJ's are flying to achieve hours only (which can be put into graphs and be assessed by bean-counters; unlike combat proficiency!) so cannot spend to much time in burner (waste of fuel which could be better used for flying at endurance speed to achieve Sqn mandated hours) or with big tanks on (reducing top speed a bit or a lot -depending on size)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bristol
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Draper
Did you really recommend Dead Dog for a knighthood? Whilst he was undeniably brave/mad ........
Now Now Roland don't get involved in personal abuse. However - could start the thread:
'I worked with/for Dead Dog and ...', future Sqn Boss I believe?
Helpppppp!
Did you really recommend Dead Dog for a knighthood? Whilst he was undeniably brave/mad ........
Now Now Roland don't get involved in personal abuse. However - could start the thread:
'I worked with/for Dead Dog and ...', future Sqn Boss I believe?
Helpppppp!
I was an ATCO at EGQL in the mid 70s. 23sqn Lightnings, 43 Sqn F4s & 892 NAS F4s.
A Lightning jock once told me that the F1A in reheat at sea level had 8 mins endurance! No one in their right mind would use reheat for that length of time low level but they woulg go an awful long way if they did!
I well remember the Prest & Sample laugh in on 43Sqn. Wonder what happened to Bob? Sadly Bill Sample stoofed a Jetstream in at Prestwick in the 80s and is no longer with us.
I have close contact (as a civil ATCO) with the F3 but it doesn't have the charisma of the Lightning or F4.
Misty eyed ATCO!!
A Lightning jock once told me that the F1A in reheat at sea level had 8 mins endurance! No one in their right mind would use reheat for that length of time low level but they woulg go an awful long way if they did!
I well remember the Prest & Sample laugh in on 43Sqn. Wonder what happened to Bob? Sadly Bill Sample stoofed a Jetstream in at Prestwick in the 80s and is no longer with us.
I have close contact (as a civil ATCO) with the F3 but it doesn't have the charisma of the Lightning or F4.
Misty eyed ATCO!!