Latest news about Boeing tanker deal
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So,just for the record,there is more chance of RAFP flying than :-a.The FSTA deal being announced in detail. b. The Lyneham Engineers smiling. c. Us all being in limbo. d. Some significant announcement in the next couple of months. e. All of the above.
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has not yet reached a decision on awarding a 13 billion pound military refuelling plane deal to a consortium including Airbus parent EADS, the Ministry of Defence says.
An MOD spokesman rebuffed a report in The Sunday Telegraph newspaper which said senior MOD officials had recommended the AirTanker consortium, which includes France's Thales and Rolls-Royce, Cobham and VT Group, as the "preferred bidder" at a meeting last week.
"We are continuing to talk to AirTanker about their proposals. Those negotiations are ongoing with good progress being made.
"No final decision has been taken. We will make an announcement as and when it is appropriate to do so."
The Sunday Telegraph had said that a formal recommendation was expected to be passed to government ministers in the next two weeks with a public announcement expected towards the end of February.
The government chose the AirTanker consortium over a Boeing Co-led bid in a tentative agreement last January, but negotiations over the past year have proved difficult.
Britain's boldest "private finance initiative" (PFI) yet, the deal calls for the winning consortium to own and operate a fleet of tankers and make them available to the Royal Air Force for 27 years.
AirTanker plans to use Airbus A330s, a plane that it would also like the U.S. government to consider buying as it looks to replace an ageing tanker fleet of more than 500 planes
I am led to believe May is still a good estimate.
An MOD spokesman rebuffed a report in The Sunday Telegraph newspaper which said senior MOD officials had recommended the AirTanker consortium, which includes France's Thales and Rolls-Royce, Cobham and VT Group, as the "preferred bidder" at a meeting last week.
"We are continuing to talk to AirTanker about their proposals. Those negotiations are ongoing with good progress being made.
"No final decision has been taken. We will make an announcement as and when it is appropriate to do so."
The Sunday Telegraph had said that a formal recommendation was expected to be passed to government ministers in the next two weeks with a public announcement expected towards the end of February.
The government chose the AirTanker consortium over a Boeing Co-led bid in a tentative agreement last January, but negotiations over the past year have proved difficult.
Britain's boldest "private finance initiative" (PFI) yet, the deal calls for the winning consortium to own and operate a fleet of tankers and make them available to the Royal Air Force for 27 years.
AirTanker plans to use Airbus A330s, a plane that it would also like the U.S. government to consider buying as it looks to replace an ageing tanker fleet of more than 500 planes
I am led to believe May is still a good estimate.
Beagle........Well I wouldn't nail my colours to the cross too hard to go for an exact year! 
Interesting to note that some of the bidding contractors are getting rather annoyed by the continuing delays
Interesting to note that some of the bidding contractors are getting rather annoyed by the continuing delays
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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I also see from today's papers that the two beloved carriers are also on a hold. It seems that at a meeting in Dec the designs were rejected and went back to the drawing board. It also appears that HMG are trying to hold a gun to the head of the shipyard builders over amalgamation.
My money is on these deals being frozen in limbo until after the May General Election, then following Labours inevitable 3rd term victory we will have another SDR and hey presto no carriers and no FSTA!!
My money is on these deals being frozen in limbo until after the May General Election, then following Labours inevitable 3rd term victory we will have another SDR and hey presto no carriers and no FSTA!!
Deja Vue Methinks
The press release that Sangy quotes could have come from this time last year!!!
In fact I think it did, didn't it?? 
I seem to remember Min DP saying that AirTanker were given one final chance to move to the MOD position or he would recommend scrapping the PFI. Here we are 8 months on and they still haven't scrapped the PFI and have AirTanker moved towards a viable position that the NAO will approve - I doubt it. (And in todays papers Buff has the timerity to say that PFIs deliver!!! W
r)!
And in the meantime the Italian AF are due to get their brand new B767 tankers in less than 2-years time
Even the RAAF will get their brand new KA330s in less than 4 years - that despite starting their tanker replacement study some 4 years after us.
And we have Smart Procurement
.......Doh!!
The press release that Sangy quotes could have come from this time last year!!!
In fact I think it did, didn't it?? I seem to remember Min DP saying that AirTanker were given one final chance to move to the MOD position or he would recommend scrapping the PFI. Here we are 8 months on and they still haven't scrapped the PFI and have AirTanker moved towards a viable position that the NAO will approve - I doubt it. (And in todays papers Buff has the timerity to say that PFIs deliver!!! W
r)!And in the meantime the Italian AF are due to get their brand new B767 tankers in less than 2-years time
Even the RAAF will get their brand new KA330s in less than 4 years - that despite starting their tanker replacement study some 4 years after us.
And we have Smart Procurement
.......Doh!!
How clearly I remember Simon the Civil Serpent stating quite categorically:
"The FSTA programme will NOT slip"
Yeah, right. What else did he get right, I wonder?
I imagine that the delightful 'Hither' went back to Oz and told them what a crock of utter $hit this PPP/PFI was, eh Roly?
"The FSTA programme will NOT slip"
Yeah, right. What else did he get right, I wonder?
I imagine that the delightful 'Hither' went back to Oz and told them what a crock of utter $hit this PPP/PFI was, eh Roly?
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posted on the orders yahoogroup
BOEING SAYS IN TALKS WITH UAE ON B767 TANKER SALE
15 February 2005 / Reuters
By Heba Kandil
ABU DHABI -- Boeing Co. said on Monday it was in talks with the
United Arab Emirates about the possible sale of Boeing 767 military
refuelling planes, the same tankers involved in a scuppered 100-plane
deal with the U.S. Air Force.
"We're in the middle stage of talks. They are interested in two to
three tankers," James O'Neill, Boeing's vice president for tanker
programmes told Reuters at the International Defence Exhibition &
Conference in Abu Dhabi.
"If you're doing persistent border control and your aircraft are up
for a long time, they can refuel in the air instead of landing. This
will increase operational effectiveness," he said.
The planemaker has orders for 767 refuelling planes from Italy and
Japan but Britain and Australia have both declined to go with 767-
based tankers.
Sales are important for sustaining production of the aircraft as
demand from airlines has waned with the onset of other, newer models.
By far its biggest potential buyer is the U.S. Air Force, but a deal
involving 100 of the planes collapsed last year in a conflict-of-
interest scandal in which the Air Force's No. 2 weapons buyer was
jailed and Boeing's former chief financial officer fired.
The U.S. Air Force is expected to reopen a tender for tankers this
year with Boeing pitted against European rival Airbus.
15 February 2005 / Reuters
By Heba Kandil
ABU DHABI -- Boeing Co. said on Monday it was in talks with the
United Arab Emirates about the possible sale of Boeing 767 military
refuelling planes, the same tankers involved in a scuppered 100-plane
deal with the U.S. Air Force.
"We're in the middle stage of talks. They are interested in two to
three tankers," James O'Neill, Boeing's vice president for tanker
programmes told Reuters at the International Defence Exhibition &
Conference in Abu Dhabi.
"If you're doing persistent border control and your aircraft are up
for a long time, they can refuel in the air instead of landing. This
will increase operational effectiveness," he said.
The planemaker has orders for 767 refuelling planes from Italy and
Japan but Britain and Australia have both declined to go with 767-
based tankers.
Sales are important for sustaining production of the aircraft as
demand from airlines has waned with the onset of other, newer models.
By far its biggest potential buyer is the U.S. Air Force, but a deal
involving 100 of the planes collapsed last year in a conflict-of-
interest scandal in which the Air Force's No. 2 weapons buyer was
jailed and Boeing's former chief financial officer fired.
The U.S. Air Force is expected to reopen a tender for tankers this
year with Boeing pitted against European rival Airbus.
Well, you can't knock 'em for trying, I guess!
Although there are probably runways long enough for the ground-gripping KC-767A to struggle airborne at ISA+30 with full tanks, I can't help wondering quite why such small countries would conceivably need a tanker force.
Although there are probably runways long enough for the ground-gripping KC-767A to struggle airborne at ISA+30 with full tanks, I can't help wondering quite why such small countries would conceivably need a tanker force.
I suspect not. Not whilst they're trying to sell A330MRTTs, I would guess?
A pity - it's a true widebody; many people don't seem to realise that the A310 and A330 have exactly the same cabin width! Better cargo carrying ability in the A310MRTT than the 767 - because all A310MRTTs are based on the combi, whereas for the KC-767A, a cargo door is an extra. As are passenger windows!
I don't know what happened to the old Emirates A310s when they were replaced by the A330 a few years ago - but if they're still around, converting them to MRTT spec would seem a better option than the unknown and controversial KC-767A.
A pity - it's a true widebody; many people don't seem to realise that the A310 and A330 have exactly the same cabin width! Better cargo carrying ability in the A310MRTT than the 767 - because all A310MRTTs are based on the combi, whereas for the KC-767A, a cargo door is an extra. As are passenger windows!
I don't know what happened to the old Emirates A310s when they were replaced by the A330 a few years ago - but if they're still around, converting them to MRTT spec would seem a better option than the unknown and controversial KC-767A.
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SUN EXCLUSIVE
Check today's Sun - page 2 of the paper, or limited details via this URL.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005080063,00.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005080063,00.html
The PM has backed plans to share a new fleet of military planes with holiday companies. The jets will provide charter flights to the Costas in peacetime and join bombing raids during wars.
Journalism at it's best....
Journalism at it's best....
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Ex-Boeing director gets jail term
An ex-chief financial officer at Boeing has received a four-month jail sentence and a fine of $250,000 (£131,961) for illegally hiring a top Air Force aide.
Michael Sears admitted his guilt in breaking conflict of interest laws by recruiting Darleen Druyun while she still handled military contracts.
Ms Druyun is currently serving a nine month sentence for favouring Boeing when awarding lucrative contracts.
Boeing lost a $23bn government contract after a Pentagon inquiry into the case.
The contract, to provide refuelling tankers for the US Air Force, was cancelled last year.
[full article at link below]
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pag...ss/4277927.stm
Michael Sears admitted his guilt in breaking conflict of interest laws by recruiting Darleen Druyun while she still handled military contracts.
Ms Druyun is currently serving a nine month sentence for favouring Boeing when awarding lucrative contracts.
Boeing lost a $23bn government contract after a Pentagon inquiry into the case.
The contract, to provide refuelling tankers for the US Air Force, was cancelled last year.
[full article at link below]
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pag...ss/4277927.stm
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from today's Washington Post article
The full paragraph on CNN last night mentions "those aircraft" as being the KC-10s that in the view of Garant bailed out Douglas.
"We all know that this is a bailout for Boeing," Ronald G. Garant, an official of the Pentagon comptroller's office, said in a message to two others in his office and then-Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Wayne A. Schroeder. "Why don't we just bite the bullet," he asked, and handle the acquisition like the procurement of a 1970s-era aircraft -- by squeezing the manufacturer to provide a better tanker at a decent cost?
"We didn't need those aircraft either, but we didn't screw the taxpayer in the process," Garant added, referring to widespread sentiment at the Pentagon that the proposed lease of Boeing 767s would cost too much for a plane with serious shortcomings.
"We didn't need those aircraft either, but we didn't screw the taxpayer in the process," Garant added, referring to widespread sentiment at the Pentagon that the proposed lease of Boeing 767s would cost too much for a plane with serious shortcomings.
Well, I've just been flying with the GAF in their new A310MRTT and I have to say that the RAF really missed a trick by not buying a couple of dozen a few years ago when they were on offer!
It's the ideal size, burns $od all fuel (4.9 tonne per hour on both trips) and flies itself on rails. Use either NAV or HDG mode with 'normal' bank limit of 25 deg and the automatic roll rate is gentle enough for receivers to follow. No ar$e-ing about with 'MAN' turn or CWS - just let it do its thing.
Also nice and quiet and very comfy to fly in - same fuselage cross-section as an A330.
Everything in it worked - and not a scrap of black bodge tape in sight.
Hardly surprising that there aren't any A310s available on the used aircraft market. As soons as any come up for sale, they are snapped up by eager customers.
Airbus A310MRTT - World Wide Mission Support
It's the ideal size, burns $od all fuel (4.9 tonne per hour on both trips) and flies itself on rails. Use either NAV or HDG mode with 'normal' bank limit of 25 deg and the automatic roll rate is gentle enough for receivers to follow. No ar$e-ing about with 'MAN' turn or CWS - just let it do its thing.
Also nice and quiet and very comfy to fly in - same fuselage cross-section as an A330.
Everything in it worked - and not a scrap of black bodge tape in sight.
Hardly surprising that there aren't any A310s available on the used aircraft market. As soons as any come up for sale, they are snapped up by eager customers.
Airbus A310MRTT - World Wide Mission Support
