Army Flying Pay - There may be trouble ahead...
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Army Flying Pay - There may be trouble ahead...
Hi guys,
sorry if I haven't quite got the format right but this is the first time I've posted on prune. I was wondering if anyone else had heard any news regarding the way Glasgow has apparently been misinterpreting the way in which aircrew are awarded flying pay?
This looks like it may have SERIOUS implications for everyone in Army Aviation
but I'm not sure if anyone has been made aware yet. Any thoughts, answers?
sorry if I haven't quite got the format right but this is the first time I've posted on prune. I was wondering if anyone else had heard any news regarding the way Glasgow has apparently been misinterpreting the way in which aircrew are awarded flying pay?
This looks like it may have SERIOUS implications for everyone in Army Aviation
but I'm not sure if anyone has been made aware yet. Any thoughts, answers?
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Yep,
it appears that some bean counters have been looking at the way Glasgow interprets how aircrew qualify for initial, middle, top rates etc of flying pay. As it stands after 3/4 years on the initial rate you move up to the middle rate. If you then qualify as an Aircraft Commander, you move onto Middle rate A/C Comd rate and after 4 years on middle rate you would expect to move up again, and so on....
The bean counter's spin seems to be that this is wrong and that you should go back to initial rate A/C Comd pay and start all over again from there - 4 years at each rate
. Basically, you're taking a pay cut for more responsibility. The powers at be are to review the situation shortly and as I understand it, pay offices have been made aware but as yet, have not been told how or if the situation should or is to be resolved or indeed changed from the way it is at present. Does that make sense or am I panicking for nothing?
I fear quite a few of us may be worse off for the sake of some faceless officebod getting a pat on the back for clawing back what to the MOD is small change but to the individual could be the quite a sum of cash. At the very least it's worth asking Glasgow / unit pay office what the latest is
RP
it appears that some bean counters have been looking at the way Glasgow interprets how aircrew qualify for initial, middle, top rates etc of flying pay. As it stands after 3/4 years on the initial rate you move up to the middle rate. If you then qualify as an Aircraft Commander, you move onto Middle rate A/C Comd rate and after 4 years on middle rate you would expect to move up again, and so on....
The bean counter's spin seems to be that this is wrong and that you should go back to initial rate A/C Comd pay and start all over again from there - 4 years at each rate
. Basically, you're taking a pay cut for more responsibility. The powers at be are to review the situation shortly and as I understand it, pay offices have been made aware but as yet, have not been told how or if the situation should or is to be resolved or indeed changed from the way it is at present. Does that make sense or am I panicking for nothing? I fear quite a few of us may be worse off for the sake of some faceless officebod getting a pat on the back for clawing back what to the MOD is small change but to the individual could be the quite a sum of cash. At the very least it's worth asking Glasgow / unit pay office what the latest is
RP
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RP
The tri-service regulations governing pay and charges, including all forms of specialist pay, are contained in JSP 754. I'm not sure whether they are open to the interpretation that you suggest, but I will take a look when I can and get back to you here.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
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Thanks Ginseng,
I thought the rules were fairly clear too. I'm not trying to scare anyone and I hope I've got completely the wrong end of the cyclic.
Regards RP
I thought the rules were fairly clear too. I'm not trying to scare anyone and I hope I've got completely the wrong end of the cyclic.
Regards RP
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ANT
Not sure how the Air Force or Navy work things out as all your pilots are officers. Up until recently the Army had quite a few Corporal pilots kicking around. The minimum rank to be an Aircraft Commander in the Army is Sergeant, hence the different rates in flying pay (I believe).
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RP
JSP 754, Edition 3 (4 Aug 06), Chapter 6 Section 17.
As an Army/RM P2you receive P2 Initial rate from completion of Conversion to type (CTT) training, middle rate after 9 years total service (subject to a minimum 3 years aircrew service) and top rate after 18 years reckonable service.
On transition to aircraft commander status:
If on P2 Initial rate, transition to P1 intiial rate with zero seniority at that new rate.
If on P2 middle rate with less than 4 full years at that rate, remain on P2 middle rate to complete 4 years, then transition to P1 middle rate with zero seniority.
If on P2 middle rate with 4 years or more, transtion immediately to P1 middle rate with zero seniority.
If on P2 top rate, transition immediately to P1 middle rate with zero seniority.
On the P1 scale, each band is 4 years.
I don't see much room for different interpretations there. Whether the rules are fair is a different question. Is a change to the rules proposed? If so, why?
Regards
Ginseng
As an Army/RM P2you receive P2 Initial rate from completion of Conversion to type (CTT) training, middle rate after 9 years total service (subject to a minimum 3 years aircrew service) and top rate after 18 years reckonable service.
On transition to aircraft commander status:
If on P2 Initial rate, transition to P1 intiial rate with zero seniority at that new rate.
If on P2 middle rate with less than 4 full years at that rate, remain on P2 middle rate to complete 4 years, then transition to P1 middle rate with zero seniority.
If on P2 middle rate with 4 years or more, transtion immediately to P1 middle rate with zero seniority.
If on P2 top rate, transition immediately to P1 middle rate with zero seniority.
On the P1 scale, each band is 4 years.
I don't see much room for different interpretations there. Whether the rules are fair is a different question. Is a change to the rules proposed? If so, why?
Regards
Ginseng
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Ginseng
Thanks for taking the time to make that clear.
I don't believe there is to be a change in the rules. There may have been some confusion on how they've been applied up until now. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if anything comes from it. Judging by the lack of replies people obviously aren't too worried about it and I've probably got the wrong end of the stick. If so I apoligise and will now crawl back under the tiny little rock from whence I came 
.
RotatingPart out!
I don't believe there is to be a change in the rules. There may have been some confusion on how they've been applied up until now
. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if anything comes from it. Judging by the lack of replies people obviously aren't too worried about it and I've probably got the wrong end of the stick. If so I apoligise and will now crawl back under the tiny little rock from whence I came .RotatingPart out!
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My pleasure.
As you alluded to earlier, there are differences in the application of SP(F) between the Services, partly due to the historically different rank structures. I can see that that may be a bone of contention, especially since the principle of commom tri-Service regulations falls down in this area, with separate scales and rules on an individual Service basis. We light-blue aircrew Officers should perhaps reflect that Army/RM P2 Officier pilots are paid flying pay on the same scale as ORs at least until they have qualified as an aircraft commander. There is no similar application of "captaincy" pay in the RAF to cause a rift between different sets of pilots. Is this a good thing, or bad? You tell me!
Regards
Ginseng
As you alluded to earlier, there are differences in the application of SP(F) between the Services, partly due to the historically different rank structures. I can see that that may be a bone of contention, especially since the principle of commom tri-Service regulations falls down in this area, with separate scales and rules on an individual Service basis. We light-blue aircrew Officers should perhaps reflect that Army/RM P2 Officier pilots are paid flying pay on the same scale as ORs at least until they have qualified as an aircraft commander. There is no similar application of "captaincy" pay in the RAF to cause a rift between different sets of pilots. Is this a good thing, or bad? You tell me!
Regards
Ginseng
