lol, that wasn't even a good attempt :) back to the boat with you :)

IB57 the time frame is utterly unimportant, the fact that they hired DE f/o's on the Airbus widebody fleet is in contradiction to the "seniority system" they designed. It was done because it was easier than having to sit down and actually plan the movement of manpower from the A320 and B767 to the A330/A340. It suited them so the heck with senioity. Do you actually dispute that command upgrades out of seniority took place on the B767, even after the fiasco of the GT/AUH base's "new" seniority system they devised. One well known individual with strong family ties in GF comes to mind immediately, was he GT? He got command 2 months ago.


JB
Listen chap, first things first, I dont recall asking at any point in time for your suggestion or your opinion for that matter but rest assured that if I feel the urge to consult you I will. I will call a spade a spade and if that is not quite palatable with you then tough luck matey. You seem to consistently attack anyone who remotely says anything negative about the company by abusing their Pprune handle. Well I have bad news for you my name is Hair Y Balls, not much more in the form of abuse can you do with that.:O

"the time frame is utterly unimportant" ??? it is the basis for your whole criticism! so the time frame for 320 to widebody transfer is therefore unimportant...and at the company's convenience..upgrades on the 767 are happening according to seniority with senior FO's from the 330/340 fleet as well as the 767 fleet...I would recommend you not concern yourself with this until it is your turn..personally I think that any new joiners should remain on the fleet they are hired into for the duration of their initial training bond, this is in effect at many many airlines worldwide unless fleet size is reduced necessitating retraining on a different fleet..remember GF have historically never made anyone redundant, and have always retrained pilots on different fleets when their present fleet size was reduced, or phased out altogether..so why dont you try to bit a bit more positive in the face of your percieved ..adversity at least in the public forum...or is that too difficult a thing for you to do???:ugh:

Hairy nuts, the very fact you come on here and drone on about your miserable life in GF makes you unavoidable. Therefore you can just sit back and take it from anyone who feels like having a go, me included. If griping, moaning, bitching and generally dragging everyone down, was an olympic sport, you chap would get the gold! Be happy or move on, it's a simple life-lesson you should have learned a long time ago. Those of us who are happy in GF are fed up sharing a flight deck with a bunch of cry babies who have the maturity of a boiled egg. Command potential my ar$e.

Seniority, please.
 

Quote from IB:

..personally I think that any new joiners should remain on the fleet they are hired into for the duration of their initial training bond,

Hi there IB!
What if you don't have a Bond like many, many on 320?
How to handle all this different experiences?

My answer is a strict seniority system, like it was promised on the interview and laid down in the contract.

From "Schedule I, Pilots"

3. Seniority

Seniority is determined by the company and detailed in the Company's Operations Manual.

If you read OM-A, Chapter 5, Qualification Requirements, from 3 years ago, there was nothing concerning Direct Entry FOs.
These are facts. Black and white. There is no moaning, nor crying.

LNB

Direct Entry
 

LNB

Dude, check OMA again- 5.1.1 Initial employment - direct entry.
min req for all types specified. A330/40/76 Frozen icao atpl, xxxxhrs, type rating(may be waived).
This covers F/O dir entry at the company's discretion, their a*&es are well and truely covered. It also details Commanders direct entry guidelines on all fleets again-to justify DEC if required. Upgrades are dealt with in the next section 5.1.3.

Whats not covered and is subject to revision is the section 5.2.3.1.6.7 sub section b paragraph i) which states "the habibi network reserves the right to change some if not all the rules at any time for any purpose designated as benefitial to all registered members of the HN covered under subsection a above". (this is available on the new ops cd available at publications today-get yours while its hot)

Gents the long and short of it is, there is no official policy barring DEFO's-widebody, there was an undertaking to say "no more", but I think we know what that means and the value of the paper it was written on.

Hi there LNB, I agree and I believe that anyone with a conscience will and should agree with your comments because it is not fair.

On the other hand I am also sure that people like IB and Jackbauer will not agree nor you will not hear any comments supporting you from the direct entry 330 first officers . Because this system works for them, it's easy to justify anything with that logic. It's just like most of us don't have time to think about about the inhuman treatment of 3rd world country workers in the region. We look other way when we see them on the back of a truck transported like animals from one work place to another or we say they are better of here didn't you see their condition in their country? Because the system works for us. Because as a first officer in Europe or America we cannot afford to live in villas and have maids and gardeners. Didn't we all get a little more racist since we arrive here?

I had enough of this hypocrisy, if we cannot stand up for what's right then we are not good people.

point8four,

You did your revisions well, "dude". I said OM-A from 3 years ago.
In doubt, check Vol 6, Section 5.

LNB

Mmmmmmmmmm think things have changed since good ole Vol 6 days...:confused:

Gulf Air Selection Process
 

Hey all,

Anyone able to provide links to information regarding the Gulf Air Selection Process? ie. Is there information somewhere (like you find for Cathay Pacific) detailing the process and study materials etc

Thanks in advance
(I have tried advanced searches on pprune without much luck)

http://www.gulfaircareers.com/career...aspx?pageid=84

some info about the process...read the whole page..gulfairco.com also has a blurb about the history of GF ...not aware of any specific study guide for GF like the one for CX and others..good luck:ok:

Hey Thanks Ironbutt,

Do you have any info or links regarding practice for the psychometric tests?

Cheers

Katooie

No sure don't not too sure you can really "study" for those anyway...enjoy!!

hi do u know when the next abinitio intake is going to be held for the gulf nationals

Hi Guys,

I have stumbled across this post, and unfortunately I don't have time to give you a thorough rundown, I will in the near future since everything is still very fresh in my head. In a nutshell:

You arrive there, and depending on where you are coming from you might have a day or two off between arrival and the start of the selection process. Others aren't so lucky and start the very next day - so if you do, make sure you get to bed asap since you will right psycho tests and you need a fresh brain for that! Before I start, I have a lot of information on the GA selection, but due to lack of time I am not able to give all the gen, but just remind me - try and PM or something...

OT Test.

These involve four tests under the following categories: Numerical estimation; Verbal reasoning; spacial orientation, and IT test. They are pretty straight forward except for the spacial orientation - GOOD LUCK!!!! The bad news is, if you don't crack the Gulf Air profile standard you are out and will be sent home. If you pass, congrarts, you are through to the second round! After the OT tests you write a 50 question technical paper covering everything from (Radio Aids, Navigation, Tech and Gen, Human Factors etc - it's quite difficult I must admit)

Then, depending what your schedule is like, you will, during the course of the next few days, do the following:

Personal interview - about 1.25 hours long

Group Excersice - 40 minutes in total - 10 minutes to prep, and 30 minutes to come to a coclusion (more about this later).

Flight planning excercise - 1 hour (more about this later)

Sim ride, and then another short interview.


The guys conduct an awesome selcetion process, and you really get a good feel for what you are letting yourself in for - that is, you meet captains and FO's and everything else.

Sorry for the limited info, but I will post a thorough debrief later

Laters :ok:

Thanks Skytort
 

Hey,
Thanks for the info. Would be great if you could elaborate, be it on this thread or PM me.

Goodluck with your result

Cheers

Katooie

Why do you need this email address? All you have to do is APPLY through the website, if you can't figure that out then you might aswell forget it! I think a 6 year old could actually manage it!

It's quite simple.....if others can do it then I'm sure you can too....just remember if you can't find the website after this, then how are you going to make it through the selection. Look for the careers section on the Gulf Air website and you might hit the jackpot. No e-mail addresses required.......seek and ye shall find:D

Watch the space...

The next post will run through a spell checker to avoid typos like right = write :}

Cheers

Hey buddy boy.....if you need someone to hold your hand...well then what hope do you have???
If all of us interested in joining Gulf applied on line then why can't you? Bottom line this is what we are referring to.
By the way the psychos are tough at Gulf so don't go in there whinging about it and say you couldn't find the answer.
And before you slag me off again, I am happy to say that I made the selection so I must have done something right....childish or not!!!!
By the way...the reason that it is done online, so that the recruitment offices,are not bombarded with jokers trying to get an interview!!!! All done on a fair and square basis....like it should be!!!

Gulfair
 

Hi everybody i was wondering if gulfair recruits pilots with cpl/multir and evidence of passing atpl theory papers under icao annex 1

write to them
 

You can write to
PBox 138
Chief of operations
Bahrain.

:hmm:

If you are a GCC national perhaps.
If you are not then no...

i am a GCC national from bahrain but i was wondering if i have the subjects which is from newzealand do i have to do the atpls subjects again in qatar or they will hire as a direct entry will the newzealand atpls be converted to DGCAM atpl

have one at least just completed second officer program having completed training in New Zealand...not aware he had to do anything in in Doha...will ask him...disregard airgeo's post...no such person or title at GF

cheers the only worry with nzatpl i have is the flight test u should sit once u have 1500 it wont be full atpl unless sitting the flight test and passing it so it is no problem with gulfair

i just wanted to know do gulfair convert the atpl license to dgcam

Your previous question is hard to understand, perhaps you could reword it. If it asks what I think it is asking, no, you do not need the full unrestricted ATP (Commercial is fine).

Yes, all licences will be converted by Gulf Air to Omani DGCAM, which is no big deal because it is the same check-ride you will be doing for type qualification in the simulator.

Gulf Air Assessment 101
 

Hi Guys,

As promised, here is the GA assessment review. I hope everyone interested in joining Gulf Air will find value in this. I must warn though, that I will not provide all the information since I feel you should be able to pass the interview process with little assistance i.e. you should by your very nature have what it takes to pass the selection process. I will provide everything that I experienced, but I won’t, for example, give the answer to the flight planning exercise.

Therefore, the intention of all the information I am about to provide is merely to give one a good feel for what you can expect. This is the sort of information I would like to have had before going for my interviews (which for those who wished me luck – I made it!).

I will try my best to be as accurate as I can, but please go and do research where you can. I hope the information contained in this post will serve everybody as a good guide into the areas they should go and research. Right, here I go…I will run through the typical events included in your itinerary, and will the elaborate on each one of them. You attend a welcome brief which includes topics like the living conditions in Bahrain, the company, the pay, T&C’s of employment etc. You the write the OT tests, and within the hour you receive your results – not a nice hour of ones life!!! You then do a 50 Q tech paper (rather difficult). This sort of completes the first day. The events after that are: Flight planning exercise, personal interview, simulator check ride in the B767, group exercise, small medical, and the one last final interview which is normally not longer than 20 minutes – nothing to stress about.

Depending on where you arrive from, you will have either a day or two off, or no day off at all i.e. you arrive there, and start the very next day. This is why my advice to everyone is to go to bed as soon as possible and get some sleep. Performance in the psychos are critical, and it would be very sad if you don’t pass because of lack of sleep and thus an under performing brain. I am not trying to freak anybody out, but am simply giving you that tip since I was so damn nervous about those little intimidating tests!

The tests are: Numerical Estimation; Verbal Reasoning; Spatial orientation, and IT tests (that’s right – Information Technology test)

Numerical estimation

Please note the “estimation”. This is exactly what it is! The paper consists of (I THIINK) 50 questions, and you have (I THINK) 10 minutes for this one. It is very unlikely that you will finish, but it has been noted than there are guys who can finish this – weird I know! Anyway, the method behind the madness here is that you have to estimate an answer. YOU DON’T HAVE TIME TO WORK OUT THE ANSWERS EXACTLY, SO DON’T TRY. This test is quite easy and I will give some examples to put your mind at ease.

16438 – 568 = ?
350 – 89 = ?
1.25 + 3.75 = ?
What is 350% of 95 ?
250 x 0.01x 6 = ?

If you do have a problem with math, and have a need to improve you basic math, www.webmath.com is your answer! Also try google BBC skills, but you will probably leave there feeling like a little kid because I thing the site is designed for the younger fellows i.e. those who still dream of becoming pilots. Another good source for improving your numerical reasoning is to visit www.SHLdirect.com. This is the company GA gets those tests from. Also, for further reading, try “How to pass numerical reasoning tests” by Harry Tolley. Enough about numerical reasoning…

Verbal reasoning

This test is designed to measure you comprehension of the English language. So they say, it also measures your ability to communicate clearly. I think the motives for this test is because of the cultural diversity (hehehe…yes I am still using some terms I through into my answers at the interview!), and also the ICAO English standard which is slowly creeping to the front door of practical aviation. The same publisher of the book mentioned above also publishes a book called “How to pass verbal reasoning tests”. You will find everything and more in that book that what I will ever be able to give you here. But in a nutshell, the test consists of 4-5 paragraphs of text, and about 3-4 questions per paragraph. I thing you have 20 minutes or so, and basically, just read the text and answer the question within the scope of the information provided in the text.

IT Test

This is so basic I am not going to bother to explain, but just give an example. If you don’t pick up what the test is about after these few examples – go and get help. Here is how it goes: The “question” would be a set of letters, numbers and sign arranged in a particular order, for example, (^678^!) This example will be on the left page, and then your task is to find an EXACT match on the right hand page. Yes guys, it as that simple. So on the right hand page you will have options like (“678^); (^678!(; (^678*!); (^678^!) Obviously the answer is the one in bold Be very careful since some of them look so similar – you can make a mistake VERY easily. Purpose of the test? I don’t know, but I would say it measure you ability to note detail. Relevance? I don’t know.

Spatial orientation

HAHAHA…good luck with this one! I don’t even know how to explain this test. Basically, you are given a shape, referred to as the master copy. This shape appears in a square box, and the sides of the box is introduced with a coordinate system. Let me try and simplify. Imagine a square box with the top side being calibrated in 1 centimetre increments, and the left side as well. The top side is numbered 1,2,3,4 and the left hand side will be numbered A,B,C,D. So, when referring to the top left hand corner of the box, it would be “A1”. You then get shown a master copy of an image that is of very mechanical nature (gears, linkages, bolts and nuts – but not limited to these). You then have another 4 images which all represent the master copy, but they differ slightly. The test requires you to identify the changes in the 4 different shapes, but you have to refer to the change with reference to the master copy. For example, assume you have a master copy image with a round little screw in the left hand corner. Now, in the first question, the image is an exact replica of the master copy, the only difference is that the screw is now bigger. So, with reference to the master copy, the change took place in “A1”. In the next question the image is again an exact replica of the master copy, but now the shape has been rotated 90 degrees to the right. So, the screw will now appear in the right hand corner, and this time, the screw is slightly smaller. The answer is again “A1” because with reference to the master copy, that is where the change lies. It only gets harder and all I can say is google something with regards to that stuff and practice – it’ll pay off!

The technical questionnaire is quite difficult, but this is not a pass or fail thing. There just want to see where your technical deficiencies are, if any. The paper covers a wide spectrum of questions, from weather, to nav, to radio aids etc….there is something for everyone’s taste!

The simulator ride goes something like this: You take-off, clean the aircraft up according to the flap schedule. Fly one visual circuit and a full stop landing. The weather is good, viz is good, but you have a cross wind. You are then lined up again, but this time the viz is quite crap, and you are going to get an engine failure at V1 – No it does not occur after take-off (Airborne in other words). You get the failure at V1, and you are required to maintain runway direction on the ground, accelerate to VR and then climb out using the appropriate speeds. The guys who say it happens in the air probably only realize they have lost and engine once they rotate. The examiners want to see you maintain directional control on the ground and in the air, THUS, engine fails on the ground. You the climb to 2500 feet, complete the checklists (you’re not expected to know the checklist, but to ask!!!!!!!). After the PNF states the flight status, you are vectored for an ILS approach (single engine). You then approach roughly minimas +100-200 feet, and you must do the go around with single engine (reason for mine was aircraft on the runway) The only difference between the 2 engine go around and one engeine go around is that, with the single engine GA, you call “Flap 5” instead of “flap 20” for a 2 engine landing. (2 engine landing config is flap 30, and 1 engine landing is flap 20). You the initiate the go around, clean up and accelerate to you level off altitude. They then reposition you for another ILS landing (2 engines this time) and you are required to transition from IF flying to visual flying – the test here is to see how you transition from IF flying to visual flying. The solution to the – FOLLOW the PAPI’S! With regards to the simulator assessment, the send you a PDF document containing all the information.

The Flight planning exercise is quite interesting, and here only limited info will be provide. The purpose is just to give you a feel for what to expect. You are the commander of a flight from Lahore to Jiddah via various checkpoints. You are instructed to complete the flight with minimum delay. En-route from Lahore overhead a certain checkpoint, you experience an in flight technical problem, and you are forced to descend to a lower altitude, increasing your fuel consumption to such an extent that you cannot reach your destination – so you are forced to divert. But, in you instruction booklet you are given various information, and you must use all that to solve the problem. You will have fuel at one airport and no maintenance, or the other way around. Some airports are closed, and others are available for only certain functions (departure and take off for instance). Basically, you have to try and find a suitable alternate, fix the problem, take up fuel and get going. Harder than what it seems, but you can do it! You must land back at Lahore with the minimum fuel reserve and minimum delay. They just want to see how you think.

Group exercise: You and 4-5 candidates sit around a table, and basically represent a committee that have to decide on a suitable aircraft for a new route. I don’t think there is a right answer, but you are monitored by 5 of the recruiters, so it gets pretty tensed up. All I can say here is, be pro-active, and try your best to participate. Give your input to the solution since, believe it or not, your input is needed. It is a team effort and you should thus not lead!!!!! Nobody is nominated as a leader so don’t try and be one, but don’t sit there and ride on the success of the group and have not input yourself. Read carefully and follow the instructions…

The personal interview is quite difficult, but again not something I would say you can really prep for. Just be honest and answer the questions. Be humble, smile, don’t be arrogant, be professional and they will most likely hire you…

The final interview is a 20 minute wrap up, and basically consists of a small informal chat with some of the guys high up at GA.

My experience: The selection process is conducted very professionally, and you get a good feel for the company. They want you to do well, so be positive and give it your best.

:ok: Good luck, and feel free to ask questions if I have overlooked something…:ok:

Salary
 

Any idea of salary for a F/O basic plus allowances?
regards

Don't quote me, but about BD2000-2200 @ 1BD = 2.65 USD...

the only worry i have is because in newzealand once you complete your 1500 hours you have to sit a flight test in a pressurised aircraft to get your full atpl, and i am a bahraini national training in newzealand to get my commercial/mult ifr license so i was just thinking of doing the atpl subjects and if i get them done when i apply to Gulfair and get selected will i do the whole atpl subjects again with them in doha or join as a direct entry and if i join direct entry once these hours are completed should i go to newzealand to sit the flight test to get the full ATPL license

Your ATPL skills test will be done on your sim course and you will be issued with an Omani ATPL on the strength of this. There will be no need to return to NZ unless you want a NZ ATPL. If you have a frozen ATPL on joining GF then there are no further exams required, you just go straight to your type rating. For those without ATPL exams a bridge course is done in Doha to cover this, it takes approx 6 months. The only thing you need to check is that the NZ licence is acceptable to the DGCAM, as far as I know it is so there should be no problem. This program is only available to Bahraini and Omani nationals.

thank you Jack so its a good idea to do the atpls it will take me 3 to 4 months to complete them and yes i am a national and the sim check will it be on frasca on airbus

do gulfair accept canadin frozen atpl

Canada does not have a Frozen ATP, you either have the liscence or you dont.

If I may help, frozen ATPL in Canadian language might meen...IATRA which is the same...or almost, you still nedd to go and pass the ATPL exam after you have the hours.
Good luck...not with the ATPL but with Gulf Air Inshala...
DV:O

IATRA is the required written exam to be eligible for an Aircraft Type Rating in Canada if you hold only a Commercial or Private licence.

Still quite different from the frozen ATP concept. In any case, the Canadian ATP is no big deal because it does not necessarily require an additional flight test or having ever completed a skills test in a multi-crew aircraft.

Soap Box cowboy said:
(Canada does not have a Frozen ATP, you either have the liscence or you dont)

as per my personal experiance once u write your SAMRA & SARON & INRAT with 70 % pass mark ' that well be your Canadian Frozen ATPL once u come to Bahrain and GFA they wil accept it

Thanks

Thanks Skytort
 

Hey Skytort,

Many thanks for your very informative post on the selection process at GF. It has certainly de-mystified it seeing as there seems to be little else around. (unlike the Cx info on the Fragrant Harbour Wannabes Forum).

The detail you went into is great.

Again, many thanks

Katooie