Some points
 

1) Some questions can be answered by Mr. Sal-e only. Based on the informations provided, he is the one who has to decide if GF is a good call or not.
I like jackbauer's post, and I fully agree with him.


2) What will happen to the 767 Fleet?
Rumours about getting Boeing issued 340's until the 787/737 deal comes out are as strong as refitting the 767 fleet.
One thing is certain, nothing will happen until the new CEO comes in, let the dust settle and announce something concerning this fleet renewal. This will not be made under the name of former CEO, JH.

3) Seniority?
There is a published seniority list on mygulfair.com. Company is precisely following that list for command ugrade and I hope it keeps like this. This month, 4 or 6 new guys to be upgraded, ex 330/340 FOs.

4) 320?
Well, some 320 guys that should be transfered by now to the long haul fleet, have rejected the offer, 3 or 4 of them.
The flow of direct entry FOs continues and now the MFFs are done on the short event, reducing even further the career progression for the hard working 320 Fleet.

LNB

Waiting for Gulf Air interview
 

Hello everyone,
I got this from GulfAir on Sep 26, 2006 for a First Officer Position. (We have reviewed your application and we are keeping it active for further consideration. We will be in contact with you again if we decide to call you forward to an Assessment Centre.)
I have not heared anything yet after that. Did anyone get the same email?
Thanks

Crjleb, it's a standard computerised response. Unfortunately there is no teling when you are likely to be called for an interview. Just keep trying....!!!!!!!!!!

Crjleb, everybody get the same message....:hmm: keep trying this is what I am still doing. :} even when they're telling you that you are on the waiting list for the interview.... since august.... imagine !!!! PATIENCE is the secret and magic word...:}

Jackbaui jackbaui jackbaui
 

You are still the same loser......

GF might seem good for you as you spend half of your time in the office of XXXXXXXX creeping up his A*s spending your time picking the nice flights instead of doing your work as wannabe XXXXXXX. How come YOU do always get the few nice flights?

As a word of caution for those who read jackbauers post. For the last 2 years copilot jackbauer, a former bush pilot, has been "working" as a wannabe manager in the XXXXXX office. That why he is trying to paint a rosy picture of GF, well it might be rosy for him as he has full authority over his own roster and the other half of the months he is sipping coffee in the office..... for a better salary and benefits of course than the hard working majority. JB can not know how it is to work for other airlines in the ME because he has never worked for another one. His assumptions are based solely on PPRUNE and not on experience.

GF summary from someone who has a bit more "real gulf experience":

- GF lowest pay in the Gulf
- GF worst rostering in the Gulf
- GF worst career progression in the Gulf
- GF worst housing and school allowances in the Gulf
- GF worst and most abusive staff travel in the Gulf
- GF worst maintained and oldest equipment in the Gulf
- GF worst managed airline in the Gulf
- GF highest pilot fluctuation in the Gulf - % of total pilot force which is an accurate indicator of job (dis) satisfaction.

- Bahrain is after Qatar the most expensive and worst place to live in the Gulf
jackbaui you little brat I think its high time the XXXX kicks you out of the office and sends you working...

Looks like the turtle got the wrong guy with this snipe - I've removed personal details to protect the individuals concerned. 4HP

whao.....:ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

Frozen Turtle if you remotely had a clue what you're talking about you would be dangerous. As a matter of interest JB is not even on the A320 fleet so wind your neck in mate.

1) mr frozen turtle...dont WE have issues...I have to confirm that the person whom you are slagging off is not "Jack Bauer", or jack anybody else....though he does enjoy a Jack Daniels now and again..(if you do a search you will realize Jack Bauer is a boeing pilot)..and he does read Pprune,(not aware if he posts or not).. and he did see your post, and he was very suprised....so before you climb down somebody's throat, stow the crack pipe for a bit.. make sure you have a reasonable idea who they are...and before you criticize somebody's performance in their office or other duties, put yourself in their shoes for a day....if you would like to complain about your tech pilots trips he flies, I suggest you talk to him he's very approachable..but alas today he's off to ***..undoubtably one of those "nice flights" you covet:rolleyes:

2) Bahrain while becoming more and more expensive in the decade and half I have been here is by no means more expensive than the UAE..I did a 3-year stint there and have my bills to prove it..

3) "Worst place"??? Bahrain is not nearly as congested as Abu Dhabi or Dubai...traffic jams are far worse than they were 10 yrs ago...try Dubai for a spell and get back to me..

4) IF IT'S SO HORRIBLE MATE..THEN VOTE WITH YOUR FEET...TAKE A HIKE DOWN THE PIKE... loads of other jobs out there...

frozen turtle, you're scaring me.......NOT!!!
you must one of those types that just can't be content and happy with what you've got. i've been in the aviation industry flying internationally for around 13 years and it seems every airline has your type.....

For all out there who had recieved this reply, just be patient. You will not be left out. You will go through the system and will come out the other end with or without an invitation. Meanwhile, try applying elsewhere and not count on this auto-reply as a certainty for and an invite. I don't think calling them will make a difference.

Me has a feeling that boat has already sailed....

Surely, one has to ask, with such vitriole coming from our Cold Turtle friend, is there smoke where there is fire...???

Yes think he might have "got sailed" surely there's no utopia out there...

Hi guys! I fully agree with frozen turtle. If this **** jerk bauer is a 767 pilot he has no right to critisize the 320 fleet. He has no clue what is our live on the 320. I know a good friend of mine who used to fly the 320 for 2 years. The differrence between both fleets is a scandal for him. Life looks like leave for him right now. So Jerk bauer if you are a 767 pilot keep your comments for you.... You have no clue what is going on on the 320 fleet.

330/340 looks like holidays roster!!!!!!

For example, two days before his marriage. The rostering cancelled his leaves due to shortage of F/O!!!!!

In a very short time from now a lot of 320 guys will be far away from this modern slivery airline.....

So Sal-e no future for you in GF. Sory mate... All the rats are leaving the boat.... HOFO is one of them......

If it continues like this, GF will loose more than a half of his 320 F/O due to mickey mouse management.

The show must go on....

Fly high!

Pico

Picobello....you got the "rats" part right..let the vermin leave and the men get on with the mission..:cool:

Hey Picobello stready on there mate, who exactly do you think you are telling people what they can and cannot do? I fear your 15 min tenure in GF really doesnt give you F-all right to even claim you've actually worked for a living.
Take the chill pill son.

.....and then there's also the bloody great pile of CV's from GF drivers sitting on a desk at Etihad waiting for the nod - quite a few from locals too from what I hear....

frozen turtle,
actually, this is the only application that i've sent. my ex company of 12 years was great...paid well, got based out of brisbane australia, excellent rostering, great company and pilots (none who whinged and close comraderie) etc etc. i wanted more experience in a totally different place, totally different aircraft and away from the australasia/pacific area.

i am nothing like you in that, due to my nature as a south pacific islander, i will never complain, nor run out of patience nor rant and rave and sulk like a little spoilt brat. but i like meeting new and different peoples and cultures. i like getting to know people at a personal level with no expectation of anything in return.
gulf air will give me all of that or at least the challenge of that. the money, rostering, housing, etc etc etc are all secondary to me. but that doesn't mean i don't have high standards. i come to bahrain as a guest and i will go by the ways of the sandpit by choice and for my benefit. i was fully aware of what to expect and i found it acceptable. wanting a "shafting" would be far from the truth as you in your narrow mindedness, so eloquently put it. you find me in a car park somewhere and i'll give you a "shafting" all right. aren't you ashamed of speaking rudely like that about people you don't know?

so scurry along your merry way, and may you find happiness wherever you're headed.

Now that all the boys threw their toys from the pram and had a good ol rant can we get on with it. Besides if all else fails ............ Fakhem:O

Sal-e

I've been following this thread as its evolved, and I've gotta say mate - for a new boy on the block you're a tad gobby!!!!
....Pull yer head in.

Fakhem!.. Fakhem all!!! ;)

Who is who
 

Hello,

Now I don't care who is who, but if you're in doubt about favouritism on rostering, why don't you have a look at mygulfair.com? One thing is doing to the night BOMs another is just getting day turnarounds.
Lead by example, ever heard of that?

No matter how good GFA is to you, one has to think how come the company upgrades almost 40 captains this year and a huge numbers of first officers.
Gulf Air is not expanding and still we keep the pace.

Does this tells anything about the company?

Dear Ironbutt, some friends of mine left this company, some FOs, some Captains, they were not vermin, nor scum. Qualified people who couldn't take it anymore and were ABLE to find better packages and if GFA does not steer somewhere very soon, I might consider to follow, despite how close one might be for command.

Does anybody know where GFA is heading? I don't. Big FPL DISCONT AHEAD.....

This is for Sal-e:
"money, rostering, housing, etc etc etc are all secondary to me"
You should fly for Medecins sans frontieres, are missionary missions somewhere.
I and the MAJORITY of my GFA colleagues DO care about money, rostering and specially HOUSING and SCHOOLING.
That fact that you and some others don't care about them is the cause of the prostitution in this industry.
Not the first time though. Do I have to mention those who pay the company for the type rating? I mean cash, not bond???

LNB

I do not percieve my professional colleagues who have left to pursue other career opportunities to be vermin scum, or otherwise...just the unprofessional types posting here who insist on bagging GF on the way out the door:rolleyes:

Yep Ironbutt57, never trash your colleagues when they leave := coz it just may happen to you too. Like when you applied to SIA Cargo last year seems at the time you were all mouth about the lousy T&C's we have compared to SIACargo, what happened change of heart? I guess the ol "hells angels" look didn't go down too well with Capt Ho Li !!!! doing your sim ride did it?
Not to worry mate we still love ya, there's a Harley in the garage and lots of cold one's in the fridge.
Besides if all else fails .............. Fakhem :)

Hello all,

I don't write here often nor complain and until recently I was hopeful.

I am an expat FO 320, I really want to (or I should say wanted to) stay and work in Bahrain longer but it come to the point now that I cannot even financially afford to do it anymore regardless how much I want to.

Dear Ironbutt, usually I agree with most of your comments but when you call 320 FO's Eurobrats it upsets me. I want to let you know about my situation which I believe will reflect many Expat FO's situation.

• I worked hard to get this job and I worked and paid for all my training, of course I got lots of loans to pay and have a family to support.
• I have a mortgage which is tied to euro and BD lost it's value against dollar about 30 % in the last 2 years.
• I choose Middle East airline because I thought I can work hard and earn good so I will be out of dept quicker.
• I volunteer to fly every single day that I am off, I try to stay in bahrain at least half of my leave everytime and volunteer to fly.
• My average time away is 150 - 220 hours a month, my typical flight day is Bah - Doh - Bah - Dmm - Bah.
• Couple of times in front of my eyes Local pilots called their mates in rostering and changed their rosters according to their needs.
• I have no idea when or if I will ever be offered to fly 330/340
• My monthly salary is hardly hits 2000BD. It's generally 1800BD - 1900 BD
• You call me RAT and spoiled Eurobrat, but I dont' think as a Training Captain in 767 with the income of double what I earn you can neither emphatise nor capable of symphatising with me. I don't feel like a RAT. I feel as a person who is lied to and cheated on. I do not know who to talk or complain about my problems. So I just write it here to get it out of my chest. I know life is not fair but I believe we should do our best to make it fair for EVERYONE.

Thanks for your time.

Nice and honnest post Heleheleyani,

I can say I fully agree with most of your statements in regards to GF ....It's sad but we won't change a thing in this attitude. So that's why people are looking to go....Lied about the housing, lied about the flying and roster,lied about school $...Training is nil and mickey mouse .....So what to do....Your answer is as good as mine....Meanwhile let's shop:ok:

Never applied, interviewed or otherwise confirmable through two colleagues now on the properties at SIN cargo...a bit of research through former GF members and other sources confirmed it was not for me at this juncture..

Heleheleyani...did I spell that right...what can I say...sorry if you take my comments personally..sorry if it doesn't work for you...yes things could be improved...not sure GF is in the position to do so...hope it works out better at your next job..

IB57
Seems you have a selective memory mate. Nevermind, I guess its not a time you care to remember, but some of us do remember how you described the proverbial sunshine shining out of SINCargo's derier and your impending interview after a good session at the bar one night last year.

My point is not SINCargo, my point is that your time at GF and the lucky strikes you've had comming from the outfit next door certainly does not entitle you to mock genuine gripe from guys who were promised advancement and got shafted by DE F/O's on the widebodies and a seniority system which is not worth the paper it's written on. You talk of loyalty but what did you do when you got command next door; you came to GF as a DEC. Nice one

Please refrain from calling people "Eurobrats" and the likes unless you care to receive the same treatment. The "Eurobrats" you so call are complaining because their 1800 BD salaries cannot afford to pay 700 BD rents and 1000 BD per semester school fees.

I'll say it again if all else fails............... Fakhem.

Interview... I am quite convinced I would remember if I attended an interview or not...who cares...If I had and it had been unsuccessful, I would be more than happy to post it here...I have a rather hazy recollection of that and many other conversations regarding prospective future employers..however after the haze cleared..better judgement took over...

Expenses..yes it is expensive, and in many cases impossible to "get ahead" here in the gulf..it is unfortunate..and I do sympathize with those that find it so..however taking it to the internet in a nagative fashion will not serve any other purpose than to make those involved look unprofessional..the opportunity for many at GF today was non-existent for non-rated/non jet time pilots (myself included) until very recently..so look at it from the viewpoint of others...if it is undoable (is that a word?) financially or otherwise then deal with it appropriately..if you do a bit of homework (again) you would see my "eurobrat" comment was in reference to those newbies complaining about their "right" to transfer to widebody flying...not those with financial considerations...

DEC..obviously you are not aware of events that unfolded "post Uberlingen"..if you were, you would not have made that comment...do your homework..

signing out...time to go boating... want to join us ??? It's for sure a more appropriate venue for venting your GF frustrations...we all have them...but like to keep them "in house"...never fancied walking around a neighborhood with all that dirty laundry hanging from the balconies for all to see...cee ya!! Bring some of that beer!!!!

You have a good one bud, enjoy the boat, drink lots of beer and have fun. Just please next time dont trash your fellows who cannot afford a boat because they're trying to save to pay school fees.

Masalama
Fakhem

he started with the shafting statement.....how rude.
as for conditions, money etc, i did say they were secondary.....i meant a close second.
and as for pulling my head in, being a newby, i say my opinion when i want. this forum allows me that.

I do not intend to call you a liar or anything but:

1.I find it hard to believe that you are flying up to 220 hrs /month..
2.2000 BD for the amount of flying you are claiming does not fly.
3.If you feel cheated why don''t you go somewhere else? Air Arabia will pay you better than this.. 7600 USD/ Month.



I don't write here often nor complain and until recently I was hopeful.

I am an expat FO 320, I really want to (or I should say wanted to) stay and work in Bahrain longer but it come to the point now that I cannot even financially afford to do it anymore regardless how much I want to.

Dear Ironbutt, usually I agree with most of your comments but when you call 320 FO's Eurobrats it upsets me. I want to let you know about my situation which I believe will reflect many Expat FO's situation.

• I worked hard to get this job and I worked and paid for all my training, of course I got lots of loans to pay and have a family to support.
• I have a mortgage which is tied to euro and BD lost it's value against dollar about 30 % in the last 2 years.
• I choose Middle East airline because I thought I can work hard and earn good so I will be out of dept quicker.
• I volunteer to fly every single day that I am off, I try to stay in bahrain at least half of my leave everytime and volunteer to fly.
• My average time away is 150 - 220 hours a month, my typical flight day is Bah - Doh - Bah - Dmm - Bah.
• Couple of times in front of my eyes Local pilots called their mates in rostering and changed their rosters according to their needs.
• I have no idea when or if I will ever be offered to fly 330/340
• My monthly salary is hardly hits 2000BD. It's generally 1800BD - 1900 BD
• You call me RAT and spoiled Eurobrat, but I dont' think as a Training Captain in 767 with the income of double what I earn you can neither emphatise nor capable of symphatising with me. I don't feel like a RAT. I feel as a person who is lied to and cheated on. I do not know who to talk or complain about my problems. So I just write it here to get it out of my chest. I know life is not fair but I believe we should do our best to make it fair for EVERYONE.

Thanks for your time.[/quote]

Uaxcapt
 

Heleheleyani is not lying...

1. 220 hrs TIME AWAY not Block hours......:)

2. 2000BD:{ It' a fact:suspect: I do confirm.

3. Of course he is looking for greener pasture and unfortunately he is not the only one...

Fly high:ok:

Hi UAXCAPT,

I cannot even start to believe that you might think I am flying 220 block time a month, of course it is the TIME AWAY from base,

may I ask some questions to you?

Are you flying for Gulfair?
Are you an airline pilot at all?

maybe I misunderstood your comment about my post, if so please explain why are you so surprised that I am earning not more than 2000 BD a month. :=

My guess is that's all you are worth!! Otherwise why would you accept it?

You completely missed the point, I would happily accept 2000BD a month and I don't mind working hard. What I was trying to say there how come someone think that I can fly 220 hours a month, that surprised me.

Besides, only if I know who you are how much you earn doing what then I explain it better to you what I am worth and what you are worth.

At the end of the day, someone who comes to the gulf with illusions of getting ahead while having large financial obligations at home is going to be disappointed..one can only base their calculations on the basic plus allowances, any overtime, or excess time away from base allowances (TAFB) is a bonus,and cannot be counted on. 220 hours is not block time dont be confused they are referring to "per deim" hours bagging the company on the internet will do nothing to change things..when GF are in a position to make changes, these matters will be reviewed.

For those whose "bone-to-pick" is direct entry wide-body pilots...well...sorry guys nobody feels sorry for you at all..so can it...have a good day.

Hold your horses here for a second, lets just shed some light on the "you should have known better before you accepted the job" theory.

Facts

1. People were told they would get free fully furnished accommodation "to the highest standard" when they were offered the job, not the fact that they would have to fork out 300-400 BD per month from their own pocket.

2. People were not told that the schooling allowance has not increased in the past 20 years and fact that each school raises their fees each year by 5-10%

3. People were told that the company has a "strict seniority system"

4. People were told to expect career advancement to the widebody fleet and then they suddenly see DE f/o's with less experience taken on the A330 and A340 as well as command upgrades completely out of seniority on the B767 (f/o's with 1 year service got command)

5. People were promised command upgrades according to seniority and then GF hires 15 direct entry captains on "temporary basis" for six months (3 years ago) with the written promise form the HOFO that only if absolutely neccessary they will renew for an additional six months. This was over 3 years ago and they are still employed.

These are indisputable facts and they stem from the lack of planning, and the overall lack of care GF places on its manpower.

I find "fact" # 4 interesting...

1) What time frame were you given for your advancement to the widebody fleet?

2) Upgrades with one year service??? Who was that?? Think there's a bit of fiction in your facts! (if you are/were familiar with the seniority regarding GT/AUH base, you would see that the upgrades were in "fact" within the prescribed seniority system at the time.)

Hairy nuts, from all the complaining you do I suggest you just quit shooting off at the mouth and leave GF. Why you think anyone would pay the slightest bit of attention to your misguided complaints is beyond me. I could pick through the points you made and dispute them but that would just bring me down to your level and that of the others who are never happy! If it's as bad as all that and the market is so great and you are so undervalued, why are you still here? As IB suggests, if it's sympathy you are looking for you try somewhere else where they entertain childish tantrums. Life is too short to be as miserable as you are.

Got yer 6
 

Just to let those who think they know...they dont...know that is! Mr. Ironbutt hasn't graced the likes of SIA Cargo with anything more than a curious question or two. I can prove it if you want. But do you really need that? His attitude towards those who feel it is a right to command by virtue of status is well founded, and you only have to read the posts of those who feel it is their turn but may not be "ready" or mature enough to see his reasons. Take him up on the offer of a boat ride, the beer WILL be cold, and you may come away with a good buddy, and a guy who will watch your six with no strings attached. :ok:
Mayonaise a lot a words...time for a cold one!

Mayonnaise....mannaise a lot of crybabies here on Pprune!!!:}