What...?
 

They are probably including a housing allowance. But if that's a basic salary.........might not sit too well with us minions on the pointy end. Notice is in...freedom awaits.

It is not basic salary , just go on the EK website and you will find out...

I keep reading and hearing EK is desperate for pilots, and I have 1700 hrs on a narrow body jet that has MTOW more than 50T, and they replied to me with please contact us when you have a 2000 hrs...

dont believe everything you see or hear.

and at the end your an Airbus rated FO holding UK CAA (EASA) ATPL/LVO with CLASS 1 no limitation, and ELP 6, and when you sign-up you endup sitting on the right hand seat and you don't do the t/o nor the landing on the a380.:D

You're comparing apples and oranges. The cadet scheme is only for locals and takes roughly 4 years. Not much difference between EK and other ab-initio schemes.
EK lowered the bar already drastically for direct entry candidates. Don't think that another reduction would make much sense.

I went to an EK rd show last year. The salary has not changed . They said then that the basic was AED 42xxx. Its not a basic n they admitted it but was based on ~ 90 hrs / month . I mean wtf.

if you factor in the cash housing allowance , for a skipper, then you have the AED 59xxx they are now saying again is your salary. Well its clearly not.

Unless you can bring us$ 500000 to buy a place , then the 190000/ year housing perk is pretty useless as theres no way you can jump into that kind of investment on you first month. And when I inquired , the recruitment dept said you pretty much had to decide on arrival which housing option you require.

For some it would work but to including it in to the salary figure is misleading , and no doubt indicates how desperate they are to cover up the woefully inadequate "basic" salary actually on offer.

Oh and hey Emirates, the rest of the world are not paying peanuts and your tax free status no longer is the draw it once was . China is paying much higher and effectively is tax free . But then its china😂

Wow. So you have so much loyalty for your first employer. What are your plans after 2 years in the gulf? 😎

You'll easily get 2000 hours in 2 years once you join 👍

Loyalty? **** loyalty, you get paid to do the job, who ever pays more gets me to to the job! You think they are going to be loyal to you when you loose your medical? Its business! Time for money nothing else!

Momo95 maybe EK should take you right now with your <200 hrs...
really???

I don't know any other airlines which will take 2000 hours guy into a right hand seat A380...

I guess they are desperate indeed, requirements used to be much, much higher...

What a circus!

You young man don't know anything i.e. JACK, about EK if you think this is true. Go back to the fridge and get another icypop son.

Oh Lord...😱

Oh my goodness! Are we in trouble!

Young and dumb with BSJ syndrome, just what EK are after. :}

Nope for your comment that you want to fly the 777, likes its the Bee's knees.
It's a sodding aeroplane, it goes up stays up for several hours and comes down.
While you sit there, trying to stay awake as its your Nth night turn in N days.
Once the old rose tinted specs fall away it's just a job.
And out here you don't fly, just manage the plane.
I see you are just about to start a cadet program, with all due respect how about going away and learning how to do the job and getting some time in first, before questioning the entry hours into EK, which were 8500 I think when I joined 13 years ago.

Yes I vaguely do remember being in my twenties, but we went from piston to turbo prop, Small jet B737 and all the way through various different types to the A380 I'm on now, and learnt the trade, rather than just relying on the magenta line and automation.
We didn't go from Cadet straight to the 380/777.

Sadly it is people of your generation who clutch themselves at the prospect of driving said big wonder jet, and even will pay the companies concerned to do so, that has lead to the current sorry state of T&C's within the business.

As I said another one who will coming running with BSJ syndrome.

Emirates... Emirates... Let me think.... Isn't it that airline where you'll get your health and your self-esteem down the drain ? Where your management will rule with pleasure on your life with a bully/invasive bias ?

Loyality is somehow a double edged sword. Working on a "dodgy contract" with questionable T&C's and more then 100K debt doesn't support loyality. Beeing forced into a bogus tax scheme neither.......

Have you worked here before, or does FR have the same style of management. ;)

ExDubai so why do it and then complain about it afterwards. Nobody forces anyone to sign on the dotted line for these conditions, but it's just the current sydrome of I want it now and rose tinted glasses, and for some those Instagram pictures they can post.

Unfortunately momo95, with the career path you are choosing you will never get to fly an aeroplane. You will just sit in one and do every other take off and landing. It is a career which will be as boring as bat!!!!e. But you won't realise that, as you will never know what you have missed out on.
Real flying happens outside of the airlines, in the military, Bush flying, aero medical and the like.
My flying stopped almost two decades ago when I joined an airline. Since then I have basically flown the same hour 13000 times. And I have been lucky enough to fly several types to help stop some of the boredom.
When flying with those that know nothing other than airline flying, you can not sit about and talk about flying stories of the past as they have none. This is a sad reflection of where this industry has gone. I honestly feel sorry for those starting a career today as all the good stuff has been stripped away.

Nope, Don described the "normal" life of a longhaul Pilot with the current automation. There is a reason why the FAA is concerned about the manual flying ability.

Momo, I really don't want to pi$$ on your bonfire. You are obviously very keen, and I hope you do whatever job makes you happy.

These are current longhaul pilots describing things as they really are.
Do the job for a few years, then you are also qualified to comment.

Because a lot of people don't know the reality. Call it BSJ syndrome, or rose tinted glasses, whatever. For a lot of young people it's still a dream, not only a job.

Momo95 without as others have said wanting to piss on your bonfire, please read your own words here.

"I am aware many hate the career, many view it as boring, the cash involved is ludicrous, t&c's are dropping across the board etc etc ..."

And you still want to join the party !!!

Cadets in yester year spent many hours in smaller machines, learning the trade so to speak as second officers, in the Hamble days, as BA were the only ones to my recollection doing cadets in the 70's & 80"s in the UK, gaining many hours before becoming First Officers. No licence to F/O, to Big Shiny Jet in 2000 hours did not happen.
I came up what was called the self improver route and hit my first jet with 1000 hours which was still cock all, and can tell you like a lot of my colleagues at the time, the learning curve was mighty steep.

As a Cadet you will be qualified to sit in the Right Hand Seat of whatever aircraft you are put on, but as someone who used to have to train Cadets, I spent many an hour operating as single crew because the person in the RHS hadn't got a clue what was going on, and that's not criticism, it's a fact of life, due to the inexperience of the person in the RHS.

As said before get your licence and time in before suggesting that 2000 hours is too much to be considered for a 777 or whatever. Only time and age will knock the BSJ syndrome out of you, you are not the first and definitely won't be the last, but at the end of the day an aeroplane is an aeroplane, and you will drag it from one airport to another at unsocial times of the day, for less pay and more hours.

Yup. Perfect statement. You just need a little time to figure it out.

I wish you and all the other BSJ people luck. In the end, you'll only know if it was the right decision to sell your soul to EK when you finally throw in the towel.

Big shiny jet = awesome (immediate reaction)
Throw in many years of 8 days off flying all over the world, no work rules, no rights, the stress that you could be hauled in the office and fired/threatened during ANY time, AND ONLY THEN, when you look at yourself in the mirror and see how many years you just put on your body for a company that continually and purposefully screws you... ...then you'll know if you made the right decision.

Unfortunately, the grass is always greener, or so I hear.

I must add, however, that completely disregarding all of the posts on these forums is a bit cavalier and, well, naive.

[QUOTE]Would you say that to my face?/QUOTE]

Yes, absolutely!

Age of entitlement strikes again

Yes. Absolutely.

Age of entitlement strikes again.

The words expat and loyalty hold little correlation. In the eyes of the employer we are here to perform a task and in the eyes of the employee, we are here to gain as much as we can from our tenure as an expat. Similar to a mercenary in many respects and especially so here in the Gulf, where our moral conscience is sidelined to the expected financial gain.

Unfortunately guys, the momo generation is the future. Gardenshed, Chipotle, and donpizmeov, we have to endure this until we leave. The past will never return. This is the new reality and thankfully I am on my last decade in the business. It will never resemble what we lived the last 3 decades. Particularly in the ME. My first widebody job, 25 yrs ago required 5k with 1k tpic to even be considered. Sure cadet programs have been around for years, but it doesnt give one the experience required to be the most effective pilot. Qualified and effective have different meaning now versus previous times.

That maybe the case, but as previously mentioned they are the 'I want it now generation' as well. They refuse to be told what to do and when it doesn't suit them, they walk out. If they don't get enough 'likes' or views on social media, they throw a tantrum.

It brings the grass is greener to a whole different level!

momo95, firstly good luck to you, ignore all the vitriol from the crusty old b$stards. Once upon a time, they were just like you trying to get a career going flying airplanes and doing whatever needed to be done to achieve that. The world and aviation has changed dramatically in the lat 25 years, it's is not a nicer place. Standards have dropped in both flying skills and management attitudes to meet the new commercial norms. Don't ignore what is written on these forums, they provide some very good information about the domain we work in now a days. I hope you navigate your chosen career with luck and good choices, not that easy to do any longer.

Momo95, first do your CPL/IR before even thinking about the Triple@ek, it's still a long way...
And yes 2000 hrs is very low to get onto a triple, unheard...
Even the lucky cadets (BA, AF etc) started on 737, A320...

I just hope for my own sake that EK will not lower their requirements even more...
I have been lucky on the A380, most guys (F/Os) have lots and lots of experience...

After my CPL/IR I was dreaming to fly a king air... different times, different generation indeed.

OMG That says it all... when 2000 hours is considered 'excessive' for a newbie to get on a 777/A380

It does strike me that the old 'crusties' (of which I'm one ) criticise the new generation Cpl IR straight to jet route Next Generation guys, who in turn look down on the MPL as being just a step too far. Every step down that ladder we take we erode not only the terms and conditions of the next generations but we erode safety.

2000hrs is nothing to be in a heavy over the North Pole 207 ETOPs etc etc when the old crusty in the LHS keels over, then something else happens (always happens in 3's doesn't it ;) ). Make no mistake you are there for such moments, not just to go for A-B and take pictures on the beach. The road to the heavies used to give people that experience, you simply don't have it with 2000hrs.

Would you really want a doctor straight out of med school to be operating on your heart or the like? I certainly wouldn't. I want the old crusty who has served his time, started on simpler tasks, tonsillectomy and the like etc etc before he gets his hands on the tough stuff.

@momo95
Nothing wrong with dreaming of flying the big jets. The difference being you are not entitled to it, as many pilots of your generation tend to think. Also nothing wrong with joining a cadet program. You have to start somewhere and you are lucky to have that option nowadays. Just do us and yourself a favor and fly that A320 for 10 years, practicing as much as possible manual flying and visual approaches before you come join EK.

@nicosnoko
"Lots of experience on the 380"? Really? They do hire 2000 hours FOs. And we do have 6000 hours total time captains. I wouldn't consider that lots of experience.

By the way, what is the story of the 2 stripe FOs on both fleets? And I'm not referring to the national cadets.

The allure of the old faded jet (OFJ)
 

With +33 years in this business under my belt, and enough years in LHS that I certainly don't need the hours any more, its my experience that the guys (& gals) who came up through (how shall I put this?) the 'more traditional aviation apprenticeship' are (imho) invariably better stick & rudder fliers, being not scared to actually / manually fly the aeroplane (and indeed they often elect to), are a lot less reliant on the magic of a pink string & FD's, and have better SA.

For what it's worth, I left the sandpit almost exactly one year ago and am now (happily) back flying a 737 'Classic'... veritably the allure of the old faded jet (OFJ)... but I'm loving it,... or more especially loving the challenge (again) of getting around the track with all of the limitations wrt aircraft (of that 'vintage') reliability & capability, or lack of it!

Now, as the Head-of-Training (HoT), I'm actively encouraging my pilots (LHS & RHS) to turn off all the automatics and actually fly the f'ing aeroplane and to look out of the f'ing window.... indeed a lot a places that we fly to (in Africa) have no approach aids, no runway lights, no papi's, no ground / approach radar & !!!! ATC... and sometimes just finding these places (in an aeroplane with no GPS and a massive 'map shift'.... some you old'uns will know & remember what I'm talking about) can be 'challenging'. You have to find landmarks / ground features to guide yourself by and, to keep it safe, you have apply all your cunning, wiles, SA, and airmanship... and that last one by the way is the 'A' word that shall not speak its name, it now being loathed by airlines that operate those BSJ's.... indeed woe betide that their pilots ever indulge themselves in some 'airmanship', forsooth.... I can see my HoT counterparts in those BSJ airlines going apoplectic at the mere thought of it... wherein more rules & procedures is their MO & mantra !

So I'm trying my best to provide those F/O's (and some Captain's) presently under my wing with a proper old school apprenticeship, with crusty old bastards in the LHS to keep them honest & show them the way, and I like to think that those F/O's who'll one day leave (invariably for the allure of the BSJ) will at least by then have the airmanship basics under their belt... which might stand them (and their pax) in good stead on the proverbial dark & stormy night and, from which, I will have the satisfaction of having done my (old school) job correctly !

Unfortunately, I rather suspect that the likes of Momo95 will, invariably, get little or non of the above 'learning opportunity', i.e. when he jumps aboard that BSJ (wherein it'll very likely be full auto this and full auto that... plus lots of pink string... and a trip to the sim once in a while to revisit how to fly by hand & eye, but only barely so).... but, maybe that's all that some of them want? I.e. to don a uniform (often with a hat too at some BSJ airlines), sport some Ray-Bans (personally I prefer Serengeti's), with a copy of D.P.Davies 'Handling the Big Jets' seemingly thrown nonchalantly (albeit in clear public view) on the rear parcel shelf of their car, and to be able call themselves an 'airline pilot'. Uhm... the real pilots amongst us will certainly know the sort of chap I'm on about?!.. wherein there are airline pilots and there are airline pilots. :rolleyes:

I suspect OKC your post has passed effortlessly over the heads of many of its intended recipients due in no small part to most of them not having..or ever been given a clue, far better for the gel to be wet and the aviators gleaming than to have an ounce of resilience or common sense.
Ahhh the days of map shift, landing where the database said there was no runway and of course my little note book of tricks and circuit breaker pulls and pushes to reset the jet.

Monarch Man:Genuinely ROFLOL and ain't that the truth ! :ok:

I totally agree with Old King's post, I have a similar experience, after MD11 and B777 I had the pleasure to go back to that amazing machine that is the 737 where I called myself a 'pilot' again because to be honest, when you work on those carriers where you engage the autopilot at 200 ft then you disconnect at whatever altitude close to the ground, you are more a machine operator than a pilot... You can fool the flower shop next to your home but reality is different. I see people flattered when they say they fly big airplanes or the polar route and I say, seriously ? I agree totally that 2000 hours are not a big baggage of experience but imho I can say that the old times are gone, airplanes are much more reliable, pilot school have airplanes with full glass cockpit plus LNAV\VNAV so they are perfect for this new generation of pilots, forget about the skills we learned flying real airplanes but this is the future unfortunately.
For those who feel like Charles Elwood Yeager because they fly big airplanes, remember that, for pilots coming from conventional airplanes, flying in really demanding enviroment, with really short runways in the middle of the mountains, transitioning to a B777 or Airbus 380 will be a piece of cake, especially for the enviroment they operate in, assuming that they are good pilots of course, I've seen pilots with thousand of "hours" failing checks at Emirates as well so it all depend on who we are not on what we fly.
I transitioned myself from the 737 to the MD11 at the time and it was the easiest step I've ever done.
We were very lucky to receive that tough training from our tough instructors.
I agree on one thing, the attitude of those new pilots that want everything immediately, that is not good, they think they deserve what they want, no matter what.

Great post okc. The only point that is unlikely / unrealistic is the 'Handling the Big Jets' on the back seat. The majority of the newbies have never heard of D P Davies, let alone read the book... Great to hear that you have successfully exited the 'land of dreams' that is dubbers and have moved on to high office. I completely concur with your views on airmanship and the modern day aviation landscape in general. I suppose it is probably unfair to blame the 'yoonger generation' as they are sold these ludicrous dreams of glamour and riches through the likes of ctc etc. Probably the key to a long career is a certain enthusiasm for aviation at the start. That will at least sustain you until jet lag and ennui set in. Enthusiasm and humility can take you a long way...

Give my regards to the ITCZ...

Cheers from your former Palm Jumeira neighbour...