Another Nice paycut today.....
 

Ok, no more updates, no more us$ rates, or gold or gas, etc....
I had enough :yuk:,
Cheers guys and good luck to all. I m out. bye.

I like how you make it sound like the airlines faults. Depegging from the greenback or at least revaluing the current peg with the greenback would be the way to go. But with the GCC planning on a common currency/market (as modelled after the EU), this makes things far more complicated, simply because 'union' doesn't necessarily mean 'unity'....kinda like throwing a pair of cats over the clothesline with their tails tied together.. you will have a union there but no unity.

Nice paycut today
 

What would be the chances if expat pilots asked to be paid in another currency and not US$? Maybe we should unite and try to do something about it?

It's not the airline's fault, but, if people start leaving because of pay....It then becomes the airline's problem, and they have to adress it, plain and simple...

Air Canada's pilots live, save and will, most likely ,retire in Canada. Most expat pilots will not retire where they work.

Currency fluctuation IS an EXPATRIATE airline's problem.

Olbie, actualy, Air Canada pilots based their salary demands on the average American airline salary in every contract they negotiated in the 90s...I guess they wont next time around!

I'd be more worried about the $103 a barrel :confused::confused:

Remember the Euro started at .92 to the $$, theses things do change although the last 5 years the dollar fall has been dramatic. " Thanks George ". Currency speculation anybody ?????:ugh:

Drats, menard. Does that mean I will have to suffer the pains of leaving, finding another job, moving to another continent etc etc just so that my airline will get the message of inadequate salaries and OTHERS benefit from it? Boy, we are really in the wrong business when we've got to vote with our feet every time to improve conditions! The sad truth is, they know it and would rather be reactive than proactive everytime in addressing this.

No, it's simple, when the deal is not good anymore (call it currency, lifestyle etc.etc...) bye, bye...Out.

You choose, nobody else does for you. That's where the whole question begins, and ends...

No agenda or message to the company....This is no democraty....

Every expat will leave one day, the only unknown is...When?....

I got paid in USD last year.

Got the contract in OMR this time. The dollar is going dowwwwwn!

A comparison of an EK Captain Salary. This includes all increases for years of service etc. (To Nearest 100 Dhs)

2002 - 24500 Dhs (No Flying Pay so guaraneed all year) = EUR 7855
2008 - 41000 Dhs (Includes 78 hrs Flying Pay) = EUR 7350
2008 - 37500 Dhs (No Flying Pay Included - Eg on leave or sick) = EUR 6753

Draw your own conclusions......

If comparing starting captains salary then the following:

2002 - 24500 Dhs (No Flying Pay so guaraneed all year) = EUR 7855
2008 - 33260 Dhs (Includes 78 hrs Flying Pay) = EUR 5960
2008 - 37500 Dhs (No Flying Pay Included - Eg on leave or sick) = EUR 5330

This represents a deline in Starting Captain salary of 25% over the 6 years.
(Note the maximum ERP protection possible in any circumstances is 7.5% of salary)

The decline has accelerated in progressive years.

Ouch. A salary going backwards while the world grapples with rising inflation.

Costs of tickets, even measured in Dirhams is not going backwards. No wonder there is a billion dollar profit.

Pity they can't spin a bit back to the workers suffering the price rises to make the company billions.

We can dream....

The problem is, there will always be somebody out there who will take the work and be happy with the money ! The flying game used to be "white man's magic" and so it was a gravy train for western pilot's in the middle east.
Flying is not considered such a big deal anymore and pilots are hired from all over the world and happy with what we would consider to be raw deal.
We can always return to ryan air and pay for our own type ratings , sim checks and uniforms ! Time for a career change ?

Candian pilot where living and working in Canada, their home country.
I'm not. I'm leaving as an expat with no chance of getting a citizenship in this place that I really don't like. So don't give me bull!!!!.
I reason in terms of my homeland currencie because there i send my money. You can live with that if you want but to me if the salary,converted in my currencie, is not enough I send them to fu#@ o## easy as that!!!
And... Mirabeau yes....definetely time for it... let's let the f#@#@g managers that screwed us so easily ( and it's the category's fault...)
wake up at 1 am ...for peanuts.
Cost of labour is still dropping for Emirates. Their revenues are in different currencies mainly euros, AU GBP Rupye and others not pegged to the sinking dollar. Every euro is becoming more and more dhirams...and with them they are paying your same same !!!!ty salary... why should they be looking for unpeg?

SNAM

I think you are missing the point. No one blames the UAE government for the dollar's woes. I daresay they have many reasons to revalue, unpeg or not. Yes they are taking advantage of the reducing labour cost relative to their revenues but then who wouldn't. Personally I think if they dont do something about it, things will come unglued a bit faster than they might expect.

To be fair the UAE govenment has raised their own worker salaries quickly to keep pace. They cannot force the hand of companies however.

The general bitterness is with EK for not at least making salaries keep neutral over the years. That in itself would be a saving as ticket/cargo prices have risen with inflation in whatever country. Nor is this a single currency issue. Most currencies have climbed hugely relative to the dollar.

One could also excuse EK if the cost of living was rising marginally but the inflation is at least 4 times what most countries are comfortable with. No relief from EK on that score. Just condescending rhetoric to show that its not what everyone, including newspapers and economists knows it is.

For newjoiners the deal is the deal. In time they become the disaffected cynics like all the rest. But for the longer serving employees there is massive resentment, when effectively they are told their worth is less, year after year. Particularly when they have to suffer their own company publications crowing about how much bigger the profits are than the last year and how much they appreciate all the hard work we all put in.

Doesn't really sound convincing now does it? If we are doing such a great job, then dont let our salaries actually decline in real terms.

SNAM

Yes well aware that the industry pays less. But are salaries in EUR (your measure) actually decreasing over the past 6 years for someone in the company and presumably becoming more senior and occasionally getting a little raise?

As Disco shows a particular Captain over 6 years takes home less. If EUR inflation is 5% then one would expect rises of at least 2% in EUR a year and this still realising a net deterioration.

And indeed we work more but not for the same old salary. No - A decreasing one in your EUR terms. Hence the alarm. Extrapolated this goes below the poverty line and then to zero. Not an immediate threat I agree but we ask to what level it goes before we are forced to go and find alternative employment.

Are these airlines making the profit margins of EK?

As for the ERP - no it does not cover the shortfall (Max it can be is 7.5% of basic) and in time washes away to nothing. The GBP one almost halved recently. Nor does it apply to the flying hours so will be further diluted.

We ask at the very least that salaries stay level in EUR terms (dare I ask a tiny increase for years for service) and have all accepted that harder work for it is the name of the game. Is that unreasonable?

Pilots will not challenge management for a number of reasons.
They are too apathetic.
They are not particularly bright wrt how to be effective.

I say this because many moan. Few actually voice their concerns to management. Those that do are generally abandoned by their apathetic colleagues. Its too difficult and percieved risky. And it would be if not conducted correctly and without threat and table banging.

There are official channels to use that don't involve radical union type movements, which most pilots believe is the only way it could be done. Simply challenging unreasonable edicts of management through the company established processes for aggrieved employees would get serious attention. They are obliged to address them.

Letters, phonecalls and emails are a complete waste of time as the company can simply ignore them. After all these are not formal complaints - simply an employee's opinion, from the company's perspective, and can therefore be dismissed. Who's complaining? No one formally.

I guarantee that if 1% of the pilot pool took up formal grievance, on a legitimate issue, the company would moderate their stance.

"Letters, phonecalls and emails are a complete waste of time as the company can simply ignore them. After all these are not formal complaints - simply an employee's opinion, from the company's perspective, and can therefore be dismissed. Who's complaining? No one formally."

I've been there disconnected, so true, so true.....So true....

Ouch.

EUR hits new records above 1.53
GBP at 1.99 again
Gold posts over a $20 gain to regain record heights
Oil touches a record 104
Dow flirting with drops towards 12000 and the S&P 1300 moving to the downside.

The dollar is dying. The Dirham is dying with it.

The inflation about to hit Dubai will make your eyes water.

So another paycut again today....

Have you ever tried one of the "official channels"? I have and let me tell you what happened. After first refusing to even meet with me, I stood my ground and was awarded a hearing with someone from HR. My supervisor sat in on the meeting. I made my case, pointing out where the company did not even follow their own policy as it was written in the Employee Manual. The HR representative acknowledged my point and then stated that they intended to change the wording in the manual to correspond to the practice and that I would not be given the difference in pay that I was seeking (it was a pay issue).

In the past, I believe that you could pursue grievances through official channels but it has become apparent to me that the company no longer feels compelled to even follow their own rules (just look at their complete disregard for the ULR rest guidelines in their own publication for the IAH layover).

EUR still making record highs along with Oil.
GBP back up
US Dollar index at a record low

So more paycut today, higher inflation, and recession now confirmed.

The airlines will not announce any payrises until the last possible moment. As the USA is now in recession they are banking on the pilot market contracting and therefore little need to be too generous with any salary increases.

Who knows, if the market contacts fast enough, they may not need to give any payrise at all. No-one will quit in a rush if there is nowhere to go!

In recession, top of the list on things to economise on are the annual holiday and any avoidable business trips. Lower loads, tighter margins. Pilots a dime a dozen.

This is not looking good if you are in the airline industry.

Hello Gillegan,

I was told the Zimbabweans recently challenged the ERP Policy using the official procedures and won after a lengthy struggle. As a lot of them had been kicked out of their home country and had been forced to move elsewhere they probably had a good argument.

Speak to some of them, but the "official channels" appear to work. A comparitively small number making a strong case, and EK tried every excuse to put them off and wear them down - but eventually saw reason.

Guess you need a few people, fighting a strong case and a lot of perseverance. :D

I'm not saying it never works and am glad for those who prevailed. What I was pointing out was the lack of professional treatment at the hands of HR that I received. It's not even the outcome that was so galling, it was the initial refusal even to meet with me and then, after acknowledging my argument, the statement that even though I was correct, that I would receive no compensation. To me, the attitude that "we'll do whatever we want", is one of the biggest changes that I've seen since TC took over from MF and it is something that I'm seeing in a lot of different places - from HR to Flight Ops. It is also (IMHO) that attitude that is resulting in an erosion in our reporting culture (if there ever was one). Most pilots I know now don't even bother with CSR's, ASR's etc. because of the perception that it is just a waste of time. In a well run organization, process and accountability is transparent and even handed. I don't know many who would argue that it is anything close to that here.

I can ... after getting zero response from CSRs I have submitted on significant issues. My attempts to follow up get the same result each time..." your report is being processed" Taken 4 years so far for the first one.... I will not waste my time again.

SNAM
 

You're new around here aren't you.

Just back from the EK medical clinic for the second time in as many days and mentioned to both doctors how incredibly tired I was after the totally awful 701/702 (the infamous Mariutus 'sling shot', quite possibly the least favourite 'stopover' flight in the network before the 24 hour Houston and Sao Paulo came on the scene).

Both nearly jumped down my throat asking if I had submitted an ASR - and both went on to say that they see many pilots complaining of excessive tiredness because of the current rostering practices. However, so few ASRs are submitted that they don't have a leg to stand on when they pass on what the pilots say to them about their fatigue.

410. Don't simply tell the doctors. The ASR's on this topic seem pointless too. Who's going to ruin the day by dropping that hot potato at the next meeting? Call Crew Control, make sure they mark you down as Fatigued. Be specific: not sick, but fatigued and ensure they give the correct code.

The roster records must be kept. If the fatigue level is as high as it is claimed to be then the records will show this and no-one will have the inclination to tamper with the records retrospectively. They are kept by far too many people.

Be smart - Telling people things is a waste of breath around these parts. Its forgotten the moment you are out of sight. Everything must go on record.

All these unfavourite rostering must have led more colleagues now - specially those from down under or commuting ones - to jump the sinkin' EK-ship;
the last prominent TRI being now Ken P. - who looks for greener grass and descent treatment down under @V. Australia:sad:
the last one switches off the light - please :E

More paycuts to come:

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/currenc...929623530.html

Simply a matter of time. The fed are merely trying to control the dollar devaluation. Nothing will stop it in the near term.

Labour costs in the UAE continue to decline and as long as there are people pitching up to work, the dirham will march hand in hand with the dollar towards its ultimate demise.

For the optimistic here it is!
 

If you expect a big pay raise dream on... That's what is coming! No wonder the CRS change before the new financial year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...DEA678160DA%7D

Dubai: The Middle East's booming business aviation sector will continue to record annual double-digit growth over the next five years, an executive flight services provider said....
:D


Today Euro/$ 1.53...yallaaaa

Just keep your savings in dirhams until the inevitable break from the dollar peg! There must be an awful lot of wealthy locals asking their leaders why their fortunes are being allowed to shrink in world terms, and Kuwait has already caved. It's just a matter of waiting it out...

Not that simple Scooby Don't

The ones with fortunes (after all they are the only ones that matter) have been buying all the cheap assets elsewhere.

The big money here has no problem with the inflation. Quite the reverse.

The peg will not be removed until there is another Reserve Currency or Currencies that oil is sold in. Until then no de-peg.

It seems to me that the government, with its vast resources in both Dirham and USD has a choice to make, and I think they have made it. Either they can repeg the dirham or live with rampant inflation. I think they have chosen the latter for 2 reasons. They think the USD will recover in a few years, which I don't think will happen. And they also wish in some strange way for Dubai to be perceived as a glamorous place, which by necessity would cost more to live or visit. This theory fits in well with the general attitude.

In the short term those living in Dubai will suffer but apparently Dubai does not seem to be having any problems getting workers, be they the slaves building this place, pilots or corporate employees.

EK always has the option, which they are using to its full extent, of hiring pilots from countries in South America or Philippines or from wherever they know that pilots will jump at the opportunity to work for them. (nothing against these guys, in fact I have found them quite nice and decent pilots) Generally speaking though, they have to reduce their previous experience requirements to recruit from places such as Europe, Canada, or OZ in order to procure pilots who have yet to achieve certain levels in their careers.

I used to think it was strange that 'post 9/11' when things in the aviation world looked pretty bleak in the US, very few pilots came to EK. That has changed, which surprises me to some extent.

It might be due to one of the biggest negatives about EK for all other pilots and that is the ever declining value of the USD. Clearly this erosion of our homeland buying power has much less impact on Americans.

In truth, it might be perceived as a positive since the further the USD declines, which it will..... the more pressure to increase our salaries in terms of the dirham, and consequentially USD's. Unfortunately I don't think this is a pressure that management even acknowledges.

To me, the decline of my real salary in terms of my homeland, is not as significant as the decline of my T&C's. I know some will disagree with that, but for me I bitch more about money because the job satisfaction has dropped so rapidly.

So taking a look at things from the warped minds of management. ''We have a limitless resource of pilots from some areas of the world, so why the heck should we change our ways? Who cares if our pilot population is unhappy? If they don't like it, they can leave!''

We are screwed !! I have accepted the fact that things will continue to decline here. I am very disappointed because I truly felt like part of the team when I arrived here. I was quite proud of this airline way back then. I no longer am.

People ask me about Dubai and Emirates and now I do not say this is the place to be. In fact, it takes me a great deal of effort NOT to disparage this place in spite of the fact I feel that way.

I need a vacation ! ( to somewhere normal preferably)

When I joined EK, I believed it would be a job for life.

The world has changed.
The employment market has changed
The financial landscape has changed
EK has changed

I don't believe they want people here for life. Its too expensive. The numbers say that its best if a pilot leaves after 6-7 years. That is cost effective for EK.

Naturally they will adjust T&C and Salary to encourage this. Highest attrition is around this service bracket. (And longer as the system adjusts) Natural causes will take care of the rest.

A pilot is a resource. It has a definable economic useful life then becomes no longer cost effective and must be replaced.

I had a dream....
 

or nightmare some would say,
It goes like this,,,, :zzz: All the pilots decided they had enough and they all decided to resign on the same day. On the newspaper the next day we could read, "pilots to earn 1 million dollar per year due to mega-shortage" :cool: ..............going back to bed, Cheers!

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...n=business&col=

Two certainties:

1) The Dollar and Dirham have a lot further to fall.
2) EK will make sure that they extract maximum benefit from the situation.

Yes TC is right. They will save 100 million. The writing is on the wall.

Apache702, I know nothing about you, but one thing I do know... you're definitely not Australian. (I'll leave it to someone else to explain that if it needs explaining.)

Currency fluctuations
 

Been there - Done that - Before most, if not all of you...
xxx
I had my ups and downs like you have now, with the devaluation of the US Dollar. Was I complaining back then...? No, I did not. Because it went both ways during my career which has been very long. And I continue to work and fly airplanes until next November, when I will be forced to retire because of my age, only because I need to. I need the income. I might even elect to continue with my management position (no line flying then) because my pension and retirement will not be much.
xxx
Yet I now live in a country that some of you, call the "third world"...
xxx
I remember the Octobe War, 1973, and my layoff for PanAm, and taking ACMI jobs, often contracts in the Middle East (Jeddah with Saudia), not exactly my cup of tea, but I survived. I took jobs, either paid in US Dollars, or in local currencies, with full knowledge that I would be an expatriate for a few years, and could be subject to the currency fluctuations.
xxx
I have known the US Dollar very high on currency exchange rates... Was it about 1981-1982, when the Dollar went to be almost near the Sterling...? If I recall well , the US Dollar was worth well over twice what it is worth today. The companies that hired me during my furloughs had to pay a fortune for their US crews with US Dollar contracts. But they paid... They did not say "let us review our numbers", or "could we renegotiate this contract"...
xxx
I expatriated myself twice in my life, from Belgium, to the USA in 1968, then from the USA to Argentina in 1993. And in-between, I spent a few years in the "sandbox" with camels and goats for company, and getting my ears blasted 5 times a day by prayers on loudspeakers when I tried to sleep for a long flight the following night... But when I went, I knew what would be there and I knew that currency exchange fluctuate. I learned about finances with a Monopoly game as a kid... but maybe you did not.
xxx
You are so unhappy in Dubai, or Bahrain, or Doha, or Muscat, or Jeddah-beach-by-the-sea... You make me laugh. Your friends "back home", in North America, in Europe or Australia would be happy to receive your devaluated salaries, and fly your up-to-date junk Airbooses. You were given that choice a few years ago. It was your decision. And many of you dont pay income tax.
xxx
According to the numbers quoted above, you enjoy salaries which are higher than mine, yet I am 64, with 23,000 hrs and TRE/TRI management position in 747-200s... And there is no complaining here, from me. What happened in Argentina in early 2002 should open your eyes.
xxx
When I left USA, PanAm bankruptcy, I had to declare bankruptcy myself, lost the home I had, and the cars I had... Have you guys lost your home yet...? Then I went to live back with my old mother in Brussels... Do you guys have to live with your parents because you cannot afford meals and housing...?
xxx
When I got to Argentina, I was given a contract in Pesos/Dollars - It did not matter then, in 1993-2001 period, the Argentina Peso exchange rate was 1 to 1 with the US Dollar. At the supermarket, in Buenos Aires, I paid with a mix of Dollar bills and Pesos... Everyone was happy. My contract was a round and even $10,000/month back then, more than what I had with PanAm.
xxx
Then in early 2002, Argentina Pesos went down the tube... Way down. Banks were closed, riots in the streets, 70% unemployment, my airline nearly closed down as well (I am a veteran of airline bankruptcies) - and finally the Peso did end to be US$1.oo = 3.15 Pesos... Do I need to tell you that my 10,000/mo contract is in Pesos...? So see what was left. No complaining here. Now I pay my bills in Pesos, no more Dollars. And when on layover in Madrid or Rome, my beer for debriefing, or my cup of coffee are paid in Euros... no refills. No wonder the cabin crewmembers fill their bags with sandwiches from the galley. Can you guys afford a shwarma from a street vendor in the UAE...?
No wonder I occasionally take leaves to moonlight on Haj contracts for a few weeks to be paid in greenbacks, no matter how low they are.
xxx
So, learn from the old-timers... When working overseas, you shall be subject to currency fluctuations. It was your decision - Good luck to all of you, it could be worse.
xxx
:)
Happy contrails, with low fuel flow for us down here.