Flydubai Vs EK
 

As someone who knows a small amount about EK and close to nothing about FZ, would there be a major difference between DEC FZ or FO EK? Salary wise of course a captain at FlyDubai seems to make more but does that include a reasonable education allowance and any of the perks EK pilots seem to get(insurance, chauffeur drive, staff travel)?

Would it be better over a 10 year period doing 4/5 years as an EK FO then moving for command or going in as a DEC 737 at FZ?

Are the hours similarly high at FZ?

go to Ek if your plan is 5 - 10 years

Go to flydubai if your plan is 5-10+ years.

what?
what?

what ?

God I love the internet

I know right! ;-) It just depends on what you want out of it. Both are stable and secure jobs and ever expanding. Both have pro's and cons. For flydubai it's a fun job in a relaxed atmosphere, no stress, no drama and good training and management. Paid well for 737 and with good perks. Good rosters and roster control incl swapping, no fatigue, good stafftravel too and easy life. Con's are no basic pay increases, no provident fund and only sometimes bonus. Less extra perks in general. Average of 2-3 nightstops per month. Can opt for more or less. And with the 787 incoming, so we'll see how that goes. No info know yet.

EK is better pay, perks and provident fund. Wouldn't call chauffeur or housing a pro but that's personal. More layovers, more fatigue, less roster control. Can't speak for anything else there.

Two different companies. Don't forget that Dubai is all about EK. And that's understandle. If you purely want more money then go EK. In my opinion there is a bit more to life than more money. Again, that's personal. No company is perfect but as an expat these two are the ones to go to in the ME.

​​​​​​​Finally a nice balanced review that is not 100% doom and gloom like 99% of the ones on here.

Out of interest why is the chauffer not a benefit? Surely it is a big one, I know it's subjective but still. Is there something I am missing? Housing understandable.

Ever expanding - EK?
Yes, they have announced $52 billion of Boeing orders, but these are replacement aircraft. Without the new airport there's no room for growth. The new airport, now open for 13 years and planned to have five main runways still has just one.

Right now, the opportunities at EK are the fallout from 'letting go' more than 1500 flight crew in 2020-2021. When that's soaked up and it will be within two years or so, command slots will come from attrition only. Joining EK now may mean command coming at closer to 10 years, it's a lottery. Joining FZ as a DEC is left seat from Day 1.

Reg chauffeur. It's personal. Yes it's nice to have at times (after nightshift or at peak traffic times) but not having it means I can leave home or office when I want and be on my own in the car. I love driving tbh. No need to wait anywhere and no need to car share. I know I am home 45 min after setting the parking brake. Flip side is I am responsible for being on time. And I find I need a second car anyway as managing a family with school going kids + work + wife's personal life just means I need the flexibility of a second car. Added cost indeed but with the provided allowance it actually makes me money after a few years. Depending on your car price and car preference. Reg Housing. It's a fixed allowance and you get to keep the difference vs what you pay. So you can stay where you want and be free. You also don't have to live amongst work collegues, that social control and their families. No offence. Flip side is you are at the mercy of Dubai's housing market and landlords and/or property developers. Dubai's rental prices are going crazy atm. So I guess you have to be flexible and take the good times with the bad ones. The more lavish you live the less extra you keep. Simpel. You don't have all this stress in Ek company accomodation. A big plus. Plus the EK housing allowance is about 15/20% more than at flydubai. Can't argue with it as the term 'fair' is subjective and technically they don't have to increase it as my signed contract states less. We all want more and better but I also can't argue with getting something more for 'free'.

Most guys/girls at flydubai are pretty happy. Those with the big shiny jet itch, or very long term plan, will perhaps leave for EK. But now flydubai is getting 787's too the dynamics have changed a little bit. For some...

True. Should have said 'appetite to expand' for EK. I guess the A350's are technically expansion but it's not like flydubai atm. But both are at very different stages of their existance and at the mercy of DXB. However flydubai will eventually split their ops (rumored from 2025?) and will keep growing fast. Another 166 aircraft coming. (136 MAX and 30 787's) And they will come fast. (787 in Q4 2025?)

Also look at how flydubai treated their workforce during covid vs EK. Also something to consider in my opinion. But I'm digressing.

Any news on when FZ may open unto DEC again?

I'm joining in a few months and they've told us they're only offering company accommodation now (Either MS or MH). If they do offer the allowance for sure it's only in case you own property in Dubai. Basically you can't access the housing allowance to rent a place anymore. Must provide proof of ownership.
A workaround could be to buy the cheapest studio apartment you can find to access the allowance, rent that place out and use that money and the remaining housing allowance to rent a place wherever you want. May end up saving some too.

Really interesting topic, if someone could provide some light, would be great , I am in a similar situation myself.

I’m not sure if there is much of a debate in the medium term since FZ isn’t hiring DECs. As far as I’m aware there is still a reasonable hold pool of DECs that were advised they could be swimming for a while until they get a call up…if at all. That’s not to say there won’t be a need in the future if the expansion exceeds the capabilities to upgrade. But in the medium term they seem to have plenty of qualified FOs to upgrade, a number which will increase dramatically next year once the huge influx of experienced FOs that were hired post pandemic meet the length of service requirements to apply.

Attrition within FZ is much greater within the FO pool than the Captains pool. I think it was anticipated that a huge number of Captains would leave to the US when they relaxed their visa requirements for pilots but that hasn’t happened yet. Point is, if the ME is your goal any time soon it would probably be better to apply to EK and get your seniority going.

Back to the question, you’ll make marginally more as an FZ Captain over an EK FO if you take the whole package into consideration including provident fund. That’s if you’re not forced into EK accommodation. If you are, you’ll make more cash as an FZ skipper IF you choose a small place out in the desert somewhere. If you need a villa then you’ll probably use your entire allowance from FZ for something half decent with todays prices. If that’s the case you’d be better off with EK in a 4 bed place in Meydan.

if it’s not all about money I’d say more people are happy at FZ with regards to the job of flying. 4-6 months of the year you can get the stuff you bid for. Roster flexibility is probably better and the flying is probably more enjoyable and challenging than what you’d see at EK.

Long term however there is no question that you will be far better off financially at EK. I mean there is absolutely no comparison. The disparity between an EK Captain and FZ Captains wages is enormous. Do 15 years at EK and you’re probably looking at a 7 figure USD difference.

Thanks for the info.

Can I just ask however, according to both companies websites, EK captain is approx 44k AED and FZ 59k. Obviously with EK you have housing provided and a provident fund, but enough to make a 7 figure difference?

No fatigue is an interesting remark especially after the accident in Russia

Hello fellow aviators I hope each and everyone of you is having a good day. I have a question regarding the initial Assessment call from EK recruitment team. How long does it take to get that call and especially that on their careers website they changed the Registration to now a proper hiring ad this month. I applied since last year but only managed to complete all of their criteria just recently and I have already informed the recruitment team through Email, now how much of a wait period am I expecting?
​​​​​​Thank you and best regards.

15 years at EK could net you half a mil alone in the provident fund. Probably more if your disciplined. Add to that the substantially higher base pay (remember even though they get far less hourly pay, their higher basic means they are not penalized if they are on leave, sick or get a cancelled flight). Higher schooling allowances meaning they don’t dip into their pockets as much. Nearly 60K AED extra (I think) housing allowance which you pocket if you own.

For a long term stint in the UAE there is no question you’ll be far better off financially at EK. The comparison can’t be financial. It has to be quality of life, cockpit environment, relationship with management, training environment, roster satisfaction, days at home etc etc. Each to there own and people have there own agendas, but for the company and flying related stuff I’d say people are generally happy with their job at FZ.

So in conclusion, all the numbers mentioned are a lot lower than EK.

The EK pfund payout after 10 years on year 1 FO pay with zero growth is over 60% higher than that, based on only company contributions. It’s more than double with the employee 5%. 10 years on Y1 CN pay puts the company contributions at 3.5 times that FZ EOSB.

There may be valid reasons to pick FZ over EK, but money is definitely not one of them.

Go to EK, there is no comparison on lifestyle ,salary, pension. High energy,if you check their posts is part of the FZ recruitment team. There is another mass exodus of pilots from FZ to EK about to happen. You can ask any pilot in FZ this.

great point. And it’s still there.

How many days per month do you fly in average at both airlines?

Is Emirates calling for Assessments?
 

Hello fellow aviators hope everyone is having a great day. I am curious if Emirates is calling people for Assessments these days as I have applied for a while now and nothing yet from them so far. If anybody recently received a callup for an Assessment do let me know also if anybody wants to share their timeline from the time they applied and when they eventually got a call for Assessment thanks.

Flydubai roster
 

Hello gents,

Can anyone please share a recent Flydubai roster?
Just to get an idea.

Thanks in advance!

Sure, as CPT. Dec is 15 days OFF + 3 rest days, one evening stby without a call thus a block of 4 consec days off, 84 block hrs, 10 flights, no layover and no nights. Got my requested day off, x-mass+2 off, 31st off and all but 2 flights were requested flights. And it’s not even the best month I’ve had this year. Net pay should be about 17.5k USD incl allowances.

84 block hours over 10 flights gives an average sector length of 8.4 hours. With no layovers, those are some seriously long turnarounds! :E

Most days are actually pushing 10.5 hrs turns, each. It's the two short sectors to 'optimize' my productivity that drop it down to 8.4. Jan is actually at 8.5hrs average per day. Same, no nights and no layovers. Total 82 block hrs. Oh and minimum 13 days off + 4 rest days off, all without leave. If they don't call for 2 evening stby I'll make it 20 days off incl a stretch of 10+ consecutive days without any flights! But absolutely maxed out for the 12 month rolling period. So I'm defo not sitting still.

Those of you considering 15 years at EK; think about the cost on your body. Can you put a price on what a 777 roster does to your health?

Is FZ much better? The 737 seems to do long sectors, and with the 787 coming it's anyone's guess. Not arguing, genuinely curious. Coming from current short haul with an A380 offer.

Depends on your personal interest. Hopefully one can stay away from the 787 if one wants too. For sure there will be no mixed fleet flying so my guess now is that if you want to stay on the 737 you most probably can. Time will tell tbh. Wrt sector length. If you don't fancy long sectors then don't bid for them. If you don't want layovers then don't bid for them. Obviously you need to do x amount of productivity but still. I see collegues with a whole month of less than 2.5hr average sector lengths. Downside is you will likely have to make a few more trips to get the hours but eh... Or collegues bidding only for early or night GCC stuff for various reasons and getting it. If you are bid prio 1 or 2 then even as a junior you will get almost all trips what you want. You can pretty much make the roster what you want 40% of the time. The other 40% is maybe a 50/50 between bidding and getting and the last 20% you need to bid for annual leave. Plus or minus 10% variation depending where in the calender year you are. Joking aside then bid for perhaps longer and less desirable layover trips and throw a week or 2 of annual leave in the mix. Easy. And then the cycle begins again. With the continued expansion wrt destinations, fleet size and composition it will only get better and better. Not too long I guess before we'll start running a split base so even more variables in the mix to make a nice roster.

I personally like the loooong turns so come to work 9/10 times a month and fly 80/90hrs with near 20 days off. Then on bottom 2 bids it's 60/70hrs, more trips with min days off. You gain seniority quick too equilling better rosters.

FZ have now introduced a provident fund from Jan 2024

I heard at the higher end of the seniority list up to 25% per month is going in to the pot.

17.5% at the top.

No company is ever going to be of interest to experienced pilots if they attach seniority to anything - be it pay, pension, rosters, base transfer, leave, or anything else.

​​​​​ Fine if they can function as a cadet entry only airline.

One would say those are the very aspects that make a “career” airline with very little attrition.

Nope. I can tell you from my personal decisions, that reasonably egalitarian non-seniority is essential when choosing an airline. For that reason, I decided not to turn up to the FD final sim check, left Ryanair (who brought in seniority) and accepted QR; and if I were experienced RHS, would favour EK "fast track". Airlines are perfectly at liberty to run seniority systems, but personally I have no interest in doing the same job for worse terms or worse rosters.

Well all of the US Airlines are completely seniority based and almost all US EK Skippers of the past decade jumped at the first opportunity to join their ranks at the bottom as seniority based systems usually are an outgrowth of unionization which provides for much better quality of life and pay over the life of a pilot’s career than your “egalitarian model” where everyone is treated equally as bad from day 1 to the last day

That rather sounds like 10 duties rather than 10 flights!

To those considering the switch, there will be unhappy and happy people in every company. I have friends in FZ who are happy and I have flown with F/Os at EK who are ex FZ and personally feel far better and are less tired than before at FZ.

It would take a brave person to speculate what they think will happen in the next few years. FZ will branch into 787 ops and goodness knows how EK will handle so many new aircraft types from a crewing perspective. Therefore it would seem we are perhaps venturing into uncharted territory on both fronts. If you are unsure whether to choose between FZ or EK then apply to both and let nature take its course and then make a decision based on what you have seen during the selection process.

What is with the funny pilot uniform at fly dubai. I have seen a few pictures and pilots look like flight attendants(no offence intended). It is just my opinion that the uniforms look funny and not professional at all

Interesting. Why is it funny? It's no where close to flight attendants tbh but different, certainly. Just no tie and no jacket. I guess that came from the olderer culture of being different and relaxed/casual. We used to have 0 layovers so this was perfect. Over time transitioned to 30% being layovers with only more to be added. Other than that the brown/kaki shoes and belt will change to black shortly. Then it's like 90% of the worldwide uniforms. If I have to doubt we'll see the fleet wide addition of jacket and tie with the introduction of the 787's. Hopefully no cap though.

Actually they are very strict on following the uniform dress code. Unlike many others I've witnessed, including majors. As a recent example I flew non rev on a United 777 not too long ago and the FO was wearing pink socks and trousers that were too short. For us that would have been a offload, guaranteed.