Emirates
 

what an honest reply.
Very few drivers at Emirates would give the goods and the bads.

Been out of EK and Dubai a while now, but a few comments:

1) Rosters have improved slightly but as with everything are subject to change.

2) Never expect EK to honour anything they say or anything contractual. The step increment (or lack of) is but one of many many infringements.

3) Medical is now a huge issue for many families and the coverage seems to be in inverse proportion to the benefits.

4) Good and bad everywhere is a true statement. Salaries and benefits seem to decrease every year. Dubai is expensive.

5) Get your Command and consider FlyDubai.

6) Do visit Dubai and try to meet a few people associated with Dnata/EK and Fly Dubai beforehand.

Best of luck to you, my friend.

Get 1000 hrs command time, or 2 years worth, and then move on. Having that on your resume/CV will qualify you for more, and better, opportunities. The biggest thing that can 'tie you down' is not getting that command/Captain experience.

Consider the case, where the economy takes a downturn and after 5 years from now you'd be furloughed from there with an A380 rating.

OTOH, in a downturn you won't be close to a command after 5 years from now staying where you are anyway.

(This post contains no traces of useful thoughts)

Can't send you a PM - full storage.

To qualify for the accommodation allowance, you have to buy property within Dubai. Property prices have been in steady decline for some time now and they are likely to continue to stay that way until after the Expo, based on what you read in the press in the free world. Some colleagues have bought a 'shoebox' in the middle of nowhere, which can be paid off quickly and then use the allowance to rent somewhere. This is appealing as it is easy to save a considerable portion of the accommodation allowance at present, due to rents being so competitive at present.

Yes the rosters are lighter at present but if you plan to come and sit it out for your command, you will see both extremes of roster workload and probably before you get to the left-hand seat too. Don't be fooled into thinking the lighter rosters now are a permanent fixture, as it can and probably will change. Also bear in mind that inflation is likely to outperform any pay increase for the foreseeable future, so you run the high likelihood of having less disposable income available until a time when/if pay increases match inflation again.

On the topic of your spouse and finding work as a qualified nurse, bear in mind that many nursing jobs in Gulf involve long hours and meagre levels of remuneration compared to the western world. The bulk of nurses in the hospitals and clinics come from developing countries, with terms and conditions that reflect that.

Agree with Emma with the following additions.

"Some colleagues have bought a 'shoebox' in the middle of nowhere"....Yes and they cannot sell them for even significantly less than what they paid in an already depressed market.

"Don't be fooled into thinking the lighter rosters now are a permanent"...Wise words having seen many many such temporary lulls.

" inflation"...Using the beer guage $18 USD for a beer, enough said. Discounts through APC(EPC) Platinum which were typically 40-50% are now typically 20-25%.

"The bulk of nurses in the hospitals and clinics come from developing countries"...The bulk of our pilots are now coming from developing countries.

"when/if pay increases match inflation"...It's been almost 3 years now with no pay increase...or 3% step as per the contract. This lack of pay increase alone is worth around AED 500,000 over 15 years per pilot....Oh but its only 3% I hear over and over....the words of fools and the company knows it.

With the A380 eating up the profits and the changing pilot demographic I can't see any pay rises any time soon.

The academy turning out pilots by the 100s will also have a major impact on time to upgrade in the very near future.

If they can't plug the A380 hole possible collaboration / integration ahead with implications on seniority, pilot numbers and so on.

I love that we are so conditioned to 90-95 hr rosters that we consider 80-85hrs flying long haul, back of the clock Flying ‘light’. Watch this space....

just stay away
 

EK operation with these horrible rosters will kill your health!

Interesting that the OP thinks 5-7 years is "long term"! If you are on the 737 now you will almost certainly end up on the 777 and depending on 777-x delays it is unlikely you will have your command in 7 years and almost certain you won't have it in 5. Also, remember there is now a 2-year bond that comes along with the command course so unless you fancy paying that off your 5-7 is realistically more like 7-9.

Hi Fatbus, why did FOs get screwed 330-380?
Also, I have seen some people in this thread warning others about the medical benefits? What’s wrong with them?

thanks in advance.

Then you're not asking for an opinion, just for a confirmation of what you wanna hear. All I can say is that EK is a bad place, but there are worse places in the sandpit....

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You are a new poster on PPRuNe and therefore cannot send or receive PMs until you have ten posts.

Racist comment. Thank ****e you left. Good riddance.

What directimped says is pretty fair actually, loads of people have left and say the same, you really don't know how much you change to the bad until you leave EK and get back into the real world - PPRUNE is full of these comments. I joined EK in 2004 and left in 2018. I can safely say that one of the only true benefits to our time there was the schooling for the kids. Otherwise the continual heavy rosters and general mindset of the company just wear you down and eventually one starts to feel hopeless and trapped. EK will ALWAYS find a supply of pilots since there is an abundance of pilots who are willing to go and give it a shot.

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" ~ Paul Simon

Good luck with your choice!

To the OP

Depending on how old you are I would definitely look at EK first, there is no comparison between the two if you are looking at career longevity and financial gains if you are new to the region. FZ has had tons of pilots leave for EK and QR, including senior captains and TREs TRIs. Many FOs have left and many more are gearing up to leave. It is not because FZ is a bad place to be at, BUT, EK has much better T&Cs and works better in the long term.

At FZ you will have great co-workers to work with (pilots and cabin crew), well maintained aircraft, nice variety of flying and home on most days/ nights. But meanwhile it can’t be considered as a long term option IMO due to the lack of incentives or desire from managment to keep folks here long term. Examples would be the lack of incremental pay (Dubai is expensive), no pension plan that one could even consider a tip at your end of service, rostering is… Well "it is what it is" as FZ pilots would tell you, and no one to complain to (be careful if you do do complain because this is the ME and people do hold grudges here!), A-B deadhead night flights (2 sets of pilots on 1 long deep night turn around flight in economy to work 12-15 hour all nighters and arrive at noon the next day, somehow sitting in an economy seat or even the more uncomfortable business seats is considered adequate rest here as if you are sitting at home). Also, technically, the company policy forbids deadheading crew from using biz class headsets while deadheading and want you bring your own! Just pointing this out to illustrate the mindset at FZ!. Also, as a DEC you will enjoy being bottom of the list captain for years! 7 year plus captains here can’t get one week of summer off.

At EK you will be working for a legacy airline, you will make slightly more money, proper crew rest areas/bunks on long flights, you will see the world, 12% match for your provident fund (you will have 4 times bigger pension leaving EK than you would at FZ for the same amount of time served), you will be just as tired, much MUCH better travel benefits as you are not considered a second class employee on EK flights, much better medical benefits (FZ has downgraded their health insurance provider to the much cheaper for them and more expensive to employees option).


Not to say that FZ is a bad option, far from it as you could do definitely do worst but for a newcomer EK is the better option. Big portion of the guys/gals who stick it out at FZ plan to get a quick command followed by a couple of thousand hours in the left seat then bugger off to bigger and better things or go home. Others (minority) feel like they are too old/lazy to make a move or don't want to go back to the right seat.

Hope this helps.

I say again....
 

.... stay away!!! EK will kill you health.

I have read something about that you will see the world, hahahaha. Flying 14 hours from DXB to IAH, departing 3 am in the morning, then 24 hrs rest on the paper which does not include passing immigration and transport to the hotel and a pickup about 2,5 hrs before departure time. You might be lucky to get proper rest for your return flight.
Flying to China: 2 men over Himalaya, departures early in the morning, 8+ hrs through the night back to Dubai.
You will see the world, yes, in ****ty hotels close to the airport or far away from the city center, except JFK.

First of all pass the assessment and then you can think about joining. Sign a 5 year bond, another 2 year bond for your upgrade. Upgrade 7+ years, which is still reasonable for a big carrier.

Have seen it, luckily left early enough and enjoy my normal life back in Europe!!!

Out of interest, do EK generally give you 24 hours rest down route? With certain destinations (BKK and LHR, for example), there are arrival and departure pairs 15-16 hours apart. Do you tend to do the return flight that corresponds to your outbound (24-26 hours later) or do they mix it up in a way that sees you on minimum rest down route?

Usually 24 hours.

Ek, UAE and Dubai have long memories if you run away without paying!

Years ago someone left without paying off some loans. After working for a couple of companies in other parts of the world he happened to come back to Dubai, he got to immigration where he was stopped then promptly marched off to a cell until he paid up what he owed!

No one is sympathetic here!

And for those of you out there that imagine that we go to all these lovely places and have lots of time off down route then stop, take a deep breath and take off the rose coloured glasses!
We do three man Boston flights on the 777 because its legal ....just - the max FDP = Scheduled flight time plus the report time ie any delay = discretion!! Yes 3 pilots, 13hour 30minute flight Dubai to Boston, 24 hours off and then a 12hour 15 minute return!
Most layovers are 24 hours, usually at an airport hotel.
Between some flights I have done 18 hours in Dubai, so not even 24 hours at home!

Don't expect to get anything you bid for on your rosters, you might be lucky but generally you will not get what you want! It used to be a system where you could bid for a place or country you wanted to go to and you has a good chance of getting it! Since the system changed a couple of years ago, this ability to bid is still there but because of the way EK is using the system, our preferences are the lowest priority so you rarely get what you want!! In the past more priority was given to our preferences, now the system just gives you what it wants!

We have no support from management on our rosters, they can't help even if they wanted to (which they don't!). Flight ops ie the managers in charge of the pilots (Chief pilot , SVP, DSVP), have NO input into rosters, its run by a different department - Network Control and they don't give a damn about flight ops / pilots inputs and Flt ops have no influence or authority on them! So even if you need your flights changed you will get little or no help!

Worry less about if the wife can work, where will I live etc, worry more about can I survive the rosters, flying lots, going to places I don't bid for, getting frustrated at work, spending little time at home and knowing that nothing is going to fundamentally change no matter how long I stay at Emirates!

Happy Christmas one and all