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EK : Command Upgrade
Good Afternoon, I have read the past the threads of EK, sadly the current airline I work for doesn't treat their FO well. Sadly, it's become a race to the bottom. I grew up reading pprune and before i took this flying career. My current airline has a AED 150 k bond. I meet the minimum requirements of EK FO, probably have more hours too, never failed a lpc, opc, lc written test etc. No letters/verbals/ incident, etc from the company either. My current company is luring the FO's that the command course is starting at 3000 hours. Flying with so many dec's and upgraded Fo's, the captains here fly too stressed( New Fo's) , are paid less and do just so many engineering stuff for free. Well that's how low cos work. I never felt myself wanting to be a narrow body captain or fly single aisle tubes. I fly one now because i presumed they pay more but sadly they don't. Average FO salary here is 25000 AED or maybe 35000 AED if you have 3000 hours plus, all inclusive. Uniform, loss of license premium, bag, Emirates id, Security tag for Parking etc etc is paid from pocket. All this ignoring flying with over controlling legendary veterans who Have their own personalized SOPs, micro -manage anything and everything, even the very little brightness knob of the FO SIDE PFD!!!!. I wouldn't blame them too much either cause we have just too many trainees. And its always the FO'S fault here. Then There are those nice guys that i would hats off cause they are the best . That's an odd 10 percent of 250 line Captains here. And then there are the company negatives . I Still the pay the loan that my dad took for my training and I'm still in my early twenties. Looking at Ek command minimum age is 30 and the odds of me being accepted and surviving till the end of my career in EK, is holding me back from submitting my application. I'm from the sub -continent, made dubai my home ( Not) i have no home in my country either. Ek looks like paradise to me from here. The 777/ 380s are too shiny. Come on, It HAS to be better than sharjah airlines. I have spoken to a lot of people about this, my would be wifey is a bit worried too. She would as well bite me if i lose my current job. I understand this a rumor network, but still, i wish to get advice from EK Pilots. Should i apply? Would i be accepted? Is the wait to command worth it?. Is it better?. Thanks for reading and thanks for your time. |
You gotta be kiddin me! |
I never felt myself wanting to be a narrow body captain or fly single aisle tubes.
goodness, what a horrible thought.... |
I never felt myself wanting to be a narrow body captain or fly single aisle tubes. Because everyone knows that flying multiple aisle tubes is so much better! :rolleyes: |
That’s an accident waiting to happen! |
Sandpit is the right place for ya buddy. Enjoy....
|
:eek:
OMG, it can't be real, what a shame. My dear, if a Captain's asking you to dim the PFD light bothers you and makes you upset, you won't survive 3 weeks with EK, first of all. Stay in Air Arabia, you don't have maturity and 30 years old for you looks like won't be enough to get there. |
Dude, my honest advice is just apply and go through the whole process, if accepted go. Don't be scared of failing checks or whatever along the route because as you said you never failed once, this shows how seriously you take things. In these majors as long as you open your books and play it safe you won't get into troubles.
Only issue, very big issue I see from you is you like flying with easy going captains only. At this stage of the game you should be able to know that there many Arse hole captains you will always have to fly with. Some would want you to do stuffs their way. What's your problem of doing those stuffs. As long as it is safe to do why not do them. You can't stress yourself up when you use open descent during descent and a captain tells you to use V/s. Or Captain telling you don't do shutdown procedure because the engineer is here and will take care of plane (Airbus). Are you gonna crush if you follow what he tells you? If in your opinion you think safety will be compromised then because you know your books already just tell the captain from this book so and so the Sop wants us to do this n that stuff. Point it out to him. That is just basic CRM stuffs. Lastly stop talking about command already. Don't die for it. Just do what's required of you and that's it. If it will come after 8 years then let it be so. My one cent |
Originally Posted by Guilherme
(Post 10495302)
:eek:
OMG, it can't be real, what a shame. My dear, if a Captain's asking you to dim the PFD light bothers you and makes you upset, you won't survive 3 weeks with EK, first of all. Stay in Air Arabia, you don't have maturity and 30 years old for you looks like won't be enough to get there. They would want to increase the brightness...... Not dim!. |
Mate, there just might be a valid reason behind the Captain’s request/demand! Oblige him or her you might learn something. For the others: If this is any indication of the entry levels in the ME3 then abandon ship, time to get out, the party is over. it’s all downhill from here! |
Originally Posted by Mgggpilot
(Post 10495387)
Dude, my honest advice is just apply and go through the whole process, if accepted go. Don't be scared of failing checks or whatever along the route because as you said you never failed once, this shows how seriously you take things. In these majors as long as you open your books and play it safe you won't get into troubles.
Only issue, very big issue I see from you is you like flying with easy going captains only. At this stage of the game you should be able to know that there many Arse hole captains you will always have to fly with. Some would want you to do stuffs their way. What's your problem of doing those stuffs. As long as it is safe to do why not do them. You can't stress yourself up when you use open descent during descent and a captain tells you to use V/s. Or Captain telling you don't do shutdown procedure because the engineer is here and will take care of plane (Airbus). Are you gonna crush if you follow what he tells you? If in your opinion you think safety will be compromised then because you know your books already just tell the captain from this book so and so the Sop wants us to do this n that stuff. Point it out to him. That is just basic CRM stuffs. Lastly stop talking about command already. Don't die for it. Just do what's required of you and that's it. If it will come after 8 years then let it be so. My one cent Thanks for your advice. |
Originally Posted by hoss
(Post 10495622)
Mate, there just might be a valid reason behind the Captain’s request/demand! Oblige him or her you might learn something. For the others: If this is any indication of the entry levels in the ME3 then abandon ship, time to get out, the party is over. it’s all downhill from here! Apart from that - who cares how long the tube behind the cockpit is, how many aisles? At the end free time with the family and money counts. Both are not so good anymore with EK. All what remains are "shiny jets"(wait a few years and we see about that either). If you think the grass is greener on the other side, you are young, make your own mistakes as so many of us did. If you reach 40 and you are fighting your way through the sky night for night, flying in that beautiful(not) sunrise after a very very long night and you just want to close your eyes, then you will think again. But it will be a widebody. So, well worth the sacrifice, right? |
Will take air Arabia over indigo. Pay your dad back the money. Then decide where you want to go.
|
Originally Posted by tomuchwork
(Post 10496170)
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, you are young, make your own mistakes as so many of us did. If you reach 40 and you are fighting your way through the sky night for night, flying in that beautiful(not) sunrise after a very very long night and you just want to close your eyes, then you will think again. But it will be a widebody. So, well worth the sacrifice, right?
I hate those red-eyed flights as well, its on those red-eye flights, I find colleagues asking me to INCREASE the PFD brightness. do these flights a few times, your body no longer knows when to sleep or wake up. and that's month after month............. I guess the only difference as you said is widebody and I think more money too |
Originally Posted by donpizmeov
(Post 10496190)
Pay your dad back the money.
|
Originally Posted by Aiza
(Post 10496213)
thanks for your reply,
I hate those red-eyed flights as well, its on those red-eye flights, I find colleagues asking me to INCREASE the PFD brightness. do these flights a few times, your body no longer knows when to sleep or wake up. and that's month after month............. I guess the only difference as you said is widebody and I think more money too |
I was furloughed twice before I was 30, I didn’t touch a Boeing till I was 30, nor a widebody until I was 35. I’ve worked on 3 continents and my career progression has been above average for US passport holders. There’s a problem. It’s not everyone else... |
Originally Posted by 4runner
(Post 10496253)
I was furloughed twice before I was 30, I didn’t touch a Boeing till I was 30, nor a widebody until I was 35. I’ve worked on 3 continents and my career progression has been above average for US passport holders. There’s a problem. It’s not everyone else... At least you had a US passport and Could get a job anywhere without any discrimination. |
Originally Posted by Aiza
(Post 10500272)
At least you had a US passport and Could get a job anywhere without any discrimination. |
Originally Posted by Mgggpilot
(Post 10495387)
Dude, my honest advice is just apply and go through the whole process, if accepted go. Don't be scared of failing checks or whatever along the route because as you said you never failed once, this shows how seriously you take things. In these majors as long as you open your books and play it safe you won't get into troubles.
Only issue, very big issue I see from you is you like flying with easy going captains only. At this stage of the game you should be able to know that there many Arse hole captains you will always have to fly with. Some would want you to do stuffs their way. What's your problem of doing those stuffs. As long as it is safe to do why not do them. You can't stress yourself up when you use open descent during descent and a captain tells you to use V/s. Or Captain telling you don't do shutdown procedure because the engineer is here and will take care of plane (Airbus). Are you gonna crush if you follow what he tells you? If in your opinion you think safety will be compromised then because you know your books already just tell the captain from this book so and so the Sop wants us to do this n that stuff. Point it out to him. That is just basic CRM stuffs. Lastly stop talking about command already. Don't die for it. Just do what's required of you and that's it. If it will come after 8 years then let it be so. My one cent What's wrong with not wanting to fly with jackass captains? If I had my way, all the captains would be easy going. In terms of doing stuff "their way". I'm assuming you mean technique, and not SOP. If the OP prefers to descend in OP DES, and it's not against SOP, and not unsafe, why should a competent captain insist on another mode just because it's not the way he (the captain) would do it? At my company, a captain who micromanages to the point of controlling the FO's display brightness would quickly find himself on the no-fly list of all the FO's, and would eventually be having a chat with the professional standards committee, or chief pilot. |
I am so glad that I left this region months ago!!! Had my experience there, don't miss my life in ME at all!!! This is one reason, read the questions from the guy who opened this discussion and you see, which direction these companies are drifting.. Spoiled kid got the money for their pilot training and is dreaming from shiny jet operation and the big money. Beeing a pilot and managing a normal ops day could be so easy, but people in ME tend to make it so difficult and horrible for someone |
Originally Posted by Aiza
(Post 10494304)
Good Afternoon, I have read the past the threads of EK, sadly the current airline I work for doesn't treat their FO well. Sadly, it's become a race to the bottom. I grew up reading pprune and before i took this flying career. My current airline has a AED 150 k bond. I meet the minimum requirements of EK FO, probably have more hours too, never failed a lpc, opc, lc written test etc. No letters/verbals/ incident, etc from the company either. My current company is luring the FO's that the command course is starting at 3000 hours. Flying with so many dec's and upgraded Fo's, the captains here fly too stressed( New Fo's) , are paid less and do just so many engineering stuff for free. Well that's how low cos work. I never felt myself wanting to be a narrow body captain or fly single aisle tubes. I fly one now because i presumed they pay more but sadly they don't. Average FO salary here is 25000 AED or maybe 35000 AED if you have 3000 hours plus, all inclusive. Uniform, loss of license premium, bag, Emirates id, Security tag for Parking etc etc is paid from pocket. All this ignoring flying with over controlling legendary veterans who Have their own personalized SOPs, micro -manage anything and everything, even the very little brightness knob of the FO SIDE PFD!!!!. I wouldn't blame them too much either cause we have just too many trainees. And its always the FO'S fault here. Then There are those nice guys that i would hats off cause they are the best . That's an odd 10 percent of 250 line Captains here. And then there are the company negatives . I Still the pay the loan that my dad took for my training and I'm still in my early twenties. Looking at Ek command minimum age is 30 and the odds of me being accepted and surviving till the end of my career in EK, is holding me back from submitting my application. I'm from the sub -continent, made dubai my home ( Not) i have no home in my country either. Ek looks like paradise to me from here. The 777/ 380s are too shiny. Come on, It HAS to be better than sharjah airlines. I have spoken to a lot of people about this, my would be wifey is a bit worried too. She would as well bite me if i lose my current job. I understand this a rumor network, but still, i wish to get advice from EK Pilots. Should i apply? Would i be accepted? Is the wait to command worth it?. Is it better?. Thanks for reading and thanks for your time. Aiza, You remind a mate of mine, who told me the same thing before leaving to EK from your airline. I advised him not to leave. He didn’t bother. After 2 years at EK, with a warning letter, he just couldn’t take it at EK, he is back to your airline and probably released as captain now. Whichever airline you go, you’ll find captains like that. Probably you’ll be one, when you become a capt, who knows. So take it easy. With that kind of bond, If I were you, I would wait till command. PS: You got to seriously improve on your English. |
Originally Posted by Flyboy_SG
(Post 10507336)
Aiza, You remind a mate of mine, who told me the same thing before leaving to EK from your airline. I advised him not to leave. He didn’t bother. After 2 years at EK, with a warning letter, he just couldn’t take it at EK, he is back to your airline and probably released as captain now. Whichever airline you go, you’ll find captains like that. Probably you’ll be one, when you become a capt, who knows. So take it easy. With that kind of bond, If I were you, I would wait till command. PS: You seriously go to improve on your English. |
Originally Posted by A320LGW
(Post 10507355)
This is some of the best irony i've seen on here in a long time
Typing mistake. Thanks for pointing out. |
Ek time to command .
Hey guys , joining shortly on the T7 , wanted to know what’s the average time to command at the outfit . A low time capt on the 73, airline got bankrupt, all other outfits in the region has pathetic T&C’s. Many thanks . |
Flyboy 73NG
Pretty pathetically written comments / question from you. Maybe you should have asked your questions at the interview, and not here, as this is a rumour site. Still, EK will sort you out. |
Bit of joke asking that now ! But typical of the" new" EK |
sorting out !
Originally Posted by gehenna
(Post 10521659)
Flyboy 73NG
Pretty pathetically written comments / question from you. Maybe you should have asked your questions at the interview, and not here, as this is a rumour site. Still, EK will sort you out. Happy landings |
Originally Posted by fatbus
(Post 10521716)
Bit of joke asking that now ! But typical of the" new" EK Happy landings |
I reckon on 7-10 yrs for new joiner upgrades. Upgrading around 150 per year and there’s 2000 in the queue in front of you. Less those who don't wait around. |
Originally Posted by Adam Barfy
(Post 10521974)
I reckon on 7-10 yrs for new joiner upgrades. Upgrading around 150 per year and there’s 2000 in the queue in front of you. Less those who don't wait around. happy landings |
Adam is probably about right. No expansion on the 777 for the foreseeable future but plenty of people leaving. 7-10 sounds about right. The days of fast commands in less than 5 years are well and truly over. |
Adam/Big Geordie
Not sure who has provided those figures for you but you're both well out regarding numbers. Upgrades for the year are running around the 350+ mark. There are slightly more on the B777 due to experience level requirements for the 380, hence the need for B777 Captains to come across. Last I heard was around 15 per month upgrading on the 380, 20 on the B777. The latter fleet is currently over crewed but will stay that way to cover the delayed introduction of the 777X and possible early arrival of the 787. Pass rates are around 93% or thereabouts. Recruitment is about 45 per month with a bias towards recruiting more onto the 380. Pass rates for conversion courses is around 95%. If you delay joining by a year, 12 months later you'll have 450 pilots above you! Obviously, these figures and plans change. They often do in EK, the only constant here being change itself! If you were to ask my realistic guess for upgrade time....I'd say 5-6 years tops. Remember, about 50% of the pilots are due to retire in the next 10 years anyway. This may be the calm before the storm in regards to upgrades and recruitment. Harry |
Originally Posted by harry the cod
(Post 10522600)
Adam/Big Geordie
Not sure who has provided those figures for you but you're both well out regarding numbers. Upgrades for the year are running around the 350+ mark. There are slightly more on the B777 due to experience level requirements for the 380, hence the need for B777 Captains to come across. Last I heard was around 15 per month upgrading on the 380, 20 on the B777. The latter fleet is currently over crewed but will stay that way to cover the delayed introduction of the 777X and possible early arrival of the 787. Pass rates are around 93% or thereabouts. Recruitment is about 45 per month with a bias towards recruiting more onto the 380. Pass rates for conversion courses is around 95%. If you delay joining by a year, 12 months later you'll have 450 pilots above you! Obviously, these figures and plans change. They often do in EK, the only constant here being change itself! If you were to ask my realistic guess for upgrade time....I'd say 5-6 years tops. Remember, about 50% of the pilots are due to retire in the next 10 years anyway. This may be the calm before the storm in regards to upgrades and recruitment. Harry |
Harry may well be right and as he says, nobody really knows. I would add that the 380 fleet will start shrinking after 2021, partly offset by the delivery of 330neo/350 but who knows how many of those will turn up and how quickly.
I'm not sure that 50% of us are due to retire in the next decade though, it is quite a young workforce. The take home message is that this is no longer the place to come for a sure-fire quick command. You have been warned. |
Way too many variables involved and why should a new hire be concerned about it on this forum , after the interveriw and job offer. Judging from his previous employer he sounds like he's not committed to EK and wants a LHS more then the EK job . Was involved in the recruitment years ago and it was obvious and get rejected but now EK is desperate they will basically hire anyone ! |
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