|
Aviation Daily quoting STC The temporary pilot shortage was “internally driven” and is largely overcome, he said. “We tried to be oversmart about what we needed when.” Part of the issue is transitioning pilots from the Airbus A330 and A340 fleets that have been retired. Clark denied that a larger than usual number of pilots have left Emirates of late. “People are not leaving,” he said. Emirates has seen some relief as Abu Dhabi-based rival Etihad Airways has retrenched and some pilots moved to Emirates. |
Originally Posted by Beedo
(Post 10231121)
as of the turbo prop guys joining right now, but i think its a good chance for thise guys to prove that they are good enough to be on the wide body seat. |
Derigible
your not supposed to mention the unmentionable !! On these forums...or is it open forum! |
Originally Posted by ezydriver
(Post 10239319)
Yeah it’s not making much sense at the Orange end either. It’s for the 380 only I understand, also secondment maybe the wrong description as one of the very few details Easyjet has released so far is that you would have to resign from Easyjet and be issued with a new contract that starts in exactly 3 years. This one detail seems to be the major blocker to most orange guys as going to the desert placing all trust on an Easyjet promise that is dated 3 years in the future is a leap of faith too far. |
Just for balance, I know many people at EK and NO ONE was ever failed or terminated in the 8 years they have been there. Quite the opposite, all of them are captains now. |
Please ask your friends what they think about the training. To pass a tranining or to join a fearless training environment where you can walk out with real confidence is a big difference. Especially when you had experienced this in your previous companies. Maybe EK is not the worst but maybe they got stuck in an old fashioned way and are behind the industry standard nowadays.
I do not say they fire a lot and usually if the do there were reasons but it's not so uncommon as one would think. There is a certain amount of people who fail their initial training. We are talking about experienced pilots who had been in the job for many years and passed the assessment. |
Originally Posted by Dirigible
(Post 10246272)
Aviation Daily quoting STC The temporary pilot shortage was “internally driven” and is largely overcome, he said. “We tried to be oversmart about what we needed when.” Part of the issue is transitioning pilots from the Airbus A330 and A340 fleets that have been retired. Clark denied that a larger than usual number of pilots have left Emirates of late. “People are not leaving,” he said. Emirates has seen some relief as Abu Dhabi-based rival Etihad Airways has retrenched and some pilots moved to Emirates. |
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s
(Post 10246378)
Just for balance, I know many people at EK and NO ONE was ever failed or terminated in the 8 years they have been there. Quite the opposite, all of them are captains now. Strictly speaking - NOT fired - but is this option any better?! He left eventually.... BTW... He was here for more than 8 years... |
This happens in any company |
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s
(Post 10247140)
This happens in any company MS |
Happened with my last company in Oz. Could think of two captains that were demoted to FOs. Failed a sim, but past history of those particular individuals showed consistent fails or passes by the skins of their teeth.
With union protection and all... Fuel-Off :ok: |
Originally Posted by my salami
(Post 10247267)
I'd suggest you having a chat with our colleagues from AF,LH,KL,BA... MS It does happen in every airline. |
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s
(Post 10247140)
This happens in any company But you are giving the impression that this doesn’t happen within EK and as we all know, this is not true, as simple as that. Looks like a „slightly“ distorted perception to me. |
I am sure that there are bad eggs in every airline, however, here, one can have an excellent record in every regard for years and then one day, a single, less-than-great performance in a simulator can be very damaging to career progression. There does appear to be a sweeping trend at the present time of written warnings, demotions and sackings that wouldn't carry weight in the civilised world. It is very much testing now, training later. There are a multitude of scandalous disciplinaries that are irrelevant to performance and attitude also. This company are not taking their share of responsibility or accountability whatsoever. To be clear, i am not criticising trainers in this post. I am stating that the management attitude and company responses are not conducive to a safe or progressive airline.
|
That is what I am thinking having a Master degree in psychology. They just put a coat of “moderness” on the old structures. But in the end nothing has changed! If there is imminent pressure on individuals to perform it is contra productive to the outcome. Pressure increases performance only to a certain degree depending a bit as well on the so called personal traits. One can be very smart and has got fantastic abilities but within the “wrong” environment such a person cannot “deliver” or grow. The goal of training should be - if this person fits into the company selectional pattern (what they obviously did!) - that this person is trainable with the right methods, trainers and training program. That’s a growth structure which establish growth mindsets! In my personal opinion and from a professional perspective as well punishing somebody by degrading or terminating is the worst thing you can do as company. Imagine .. somebody got a bad phase and you help this individual with mercy, kindness, by leading the individual to overcome the problem. Tha is the difference between being a boss or a real leader.. what would it be like ? This person would be in most cases be more than happy, dedicates and loyal to the company. But maybe the company is just looking for mercenaries. Or maybe some Aussies who think being a Cpt at EK is a big thing .. sorry Aussies for that ! ;) u know which guys I am talking about ! Sorry for mistakes .. just typing on my phone. |
Originally Posted by ClassCbird
(Post 10247569)
I am sure that there are bad eggs in every airline, however, here, one can have an excellent record in every regard for years and then one day, a single, less-than-great performance in a simulator can be very damaging to career progression. There does appear to be a sweeping trend at the present time of written warnings, demotions and sackings that wouldn't carry weight in the civilised world. It is very much testing now, training later. There are a multitude of scandalous disciplinaries that are irrelevant to performance and attitude also. This company are not taking their share of responsibility or accountability whatsoever. To be clear, i am not criticising trainers in this post. I am stating that the management attitude and company responses are not conducive to a safe or progressive airline.
CP |
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky
(Post 10220142)
Does the increase in pilots leaving EK surprise anyone? Who is going to stay at this dump with so many better options available? It’s not like we can’t more money and work less hours in a civilized country. what are are those options ? |
Options
[QUOTE=Flyboy_SG;10269222] what are are those options ? How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind? The US is hiring like crazy and if you don’t have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes. China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does. Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. You’ll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying you’ll work far less than you will in the sand. Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope you’re aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out. |
Ethiopian and Turkey |
Originally Posted by Aso
(Post 10269403)
mmm Turkey? Really? With a salary that went down about 25% last month on the Lira exchange? ;)
With things falling apart here both with the airline and the city you’re going to stay? There are options |
This last ULR we were 4 crew, plus 4 crew already there, we had a chat with. This is the final count out of 8 people:
One captain quitting altogether before 60. Another captain going home to do local flying, resigns this week. One FO about to upgrade, going to Europe instead. Another FO did not pass the upgrade and is finding his way out. So about 50% bye bye ratio in this particular trip. Coincidence? This may get interesting in the coming months. |
Originally Posted by seven3seven
(Post 10269681)
Come on blue sky. Turkey? REALLY?
At this point Rwanda Air is probably better than EK. No other employer is this vindictive to its pilots for the amount of money we have at the end of the month. Without knowing definitely I would lay money on the line that Turkish doesn’t have the resignation rate that Emirates has. That says something but it’s probably more of a reflection on us. |
[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10269299]
Originally Posted by Flyboy_SG
(Post 10269222)
what are are those options ? How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind? The US is hiring like crazy and if you don’t have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes. China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does. Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. You’ll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying you’ll work far less than you will in the sand. Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope you’re aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out. Now that’s funny |
RK: A Captain in under 3 years AND 300k. I was unaware that the US Legacy Carriers were offering <3yrs command on a wide body to new hires (an MD Captain does not make 300k). Then again so were my friends who are F/O now at Delta and United. I doubt any Regional in the US pays any pilot anywhere near that amount. As for Green Cards handed out like candy-can you please share what you are on as I am sure everyone could do with being happier. Turkish: now you are really living in LaLa Land considering the currency and political situation. KAL: ask the guys coming back to EK from there and look at current KAL Rosters. Please note: I am not saying that things could not be improved here especially relating to work/life balance, however your arguement has more holes than Dr Reasons Cheese. :ugh:
|
As I said earlier Turkish is less than ideal but certainly better than EK. How much currency have we lost in Dubai with the VAT and runaway inflation? Probably less than Turkish but a whole lot more than we lost than last year. I am on the 777 but actively trying to get on with Delta. I’m probably the last American standing who doesn’t want to stay. Delta has 9 month captains and the bottom pay that I can make out is around $250 an hour. With a 80 hour month that’s $240,000 a year plus the profit share, 401k contribution. The last 3 years FOs have received about $150,000 in profit share. I kjow we get that here too but we do it for many many more hours through all hours of the night and day to 6 continents. Even widebody FOs are north of $250,000 a year for 80 hrs a month. As I said the US government does not want any parked airplanes or stunted growth so Green Cards are being passed out Willy Nilly. Apply if you’re interested. It can’t hurt. How many KAL pilots have come here? I haven’t heard of any but you probably know more people. I know some pilots have left KAL to go to other places but not here. Who chooses EK? If you weren’t stuck here and could leave would you leave? |
[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10271261]As I said the US government does not want any parked airplanes or stunted growth so Green Cards are being passed out Willy Nilly.[QUOTE]
RK, Since this conversation is about pilots, I assume you're referring to green cards being issued by a concerned government to non-US pilots who come here because the US is short of pilots at the legacy level ? Would you happen to have any documented sources for that ? I think it's safe to say that the LAST thing the likes of DL, AA, UA, SW, FedEx or UPS have to worry about is parked airplanes or stunted growth due to lack of pilots. But I can always be wrong which is why specific documentation interests me. If the Imperial Federal Government is passing out green cards as you describe, I'd love to see the documentation related to pilots. They may be granting legal entry to foreign nationals in a number of fields lacking sufficient US citizens but I don't get the impression legacy-eligible pilots are in that category in large, if any, numbers. US carrier have always hired green card holders. |
[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10269299]
Originally Posted by Flyboy_SG
(Post 10269222)
what are are those options ? How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind? The US is hiring like crazy and if you don’t have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes. China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does. Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. You’ll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying you’ll work far less than you will in the sand. Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope you’re aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out. That was a straight forward question RK. I very well know what my options are. I agree partially with US and china. Who is handing over green cards like crazy ?? Walmart? I would buy one right away. Name an airline that even sponsors a visa. Korean, No upgrade crappy work culture. Turkish, peanut salary with uncertainty in the region. And Ethiopian....don't ask me about it. There are some sort of issues everywhere. Are you even an Airline pilot or one of those office guys who compare long haul flying to chair warming jobs ? |
Originally Posted by Yournamehere
(Post 10271887)
Flyboy there is a fairly comprehensive list of the US airlines that are hiring foreigners on visas in this thread;
|
Flyboy there is a fairly comprehensive list of the US airlines that are hiring foreigners on visas in this thread; There is no Visa for foreigners but for Australians only. Until the guy with the Orange wig believes that there needs to be a wall between the US and Australia too or wishes to piss them off for any other personal reason :\ |
There is only one problem with the American carriers! |
Originally Posted by fatbus
(Post 10272502)
There is only one problem with the American carriers! |
I see a lot of complaints about the 777 flight crews. What about the 380 rosters and crews, are they happy at EK?
|
Originally Posted by fatbus
(Post 10272502)
There is only one problem with the American carriers! They don’t work hard enough? Oh wait, that’s two problems. Yeah that’s one problem too many so I’m staying where I know I’m abused. Where I am forced to work almost 100 hrs a month, day or night, where my internet is blocked, where my money is rapidly diminishing. EK is the place for me. |
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky
(Post 10282504)
Their pay is too high? They don’t work hard enough? Oh wait, that’s two problems. Yeah that’s one problem too many so I’m staying where I know I’m abused. Where I am forced to work almost 100 hrs a month, day or night, where my internet is blocked, where my money is rapidly diminishing. EK is the place for me. Hopefully, the Delta interview process will pick up on your egotistical, boastful, know-it-all, and negative mindsets and fix the problem before you go there and find a bunch of new things to complain about.....Grass is always greener, right. |
Originally Posted by TransitCheck
(Post 10282588)
......Grass is always greener, right.
But you know, keep telling yourself life is good in the Middle East. Each to their own. :ok: |
Originally Posted by mmmbop
(Post 10282621)
Well, I reckon the grass is a whole lot greener in the US, and pretty much everywhere else, than the UAE. And hell, it doesn't need watering 6 times a day with human faeces fertiliser to keep it that way either.
But you know, keep telling yourself life is good in the Middle East. Each to their own. :ok: You have never seen me respond to any other negative posters....mostly because I agree with them. |
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky
(Post 10282504)
Their pay is too high? They don’t work hard enough? Oh wait, that’s two problems. Yeah that’s one problem too many so I’m staying where I know I’m abused. Where I am forced to work almost 100 hrs a month, day or night, where my internet is blocked, where my money is rapidly diminishing. EK is the place for me. |
It really is a shame that the operators in the region treat their front line workers like garbage. And then when you quit to go to a better company, they can’t understand why and cry foul. After they've stolen from you for years, lied to your face on every occasion, mistreated you, encouraged you to break the law to save a buck, etc... somehow they are the victim. |
Break the law? |
I know crews with most operators in the region. Almost all have been asked or instructed to fudge flight and duty limits. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 10:42. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.