what you don't think that being at a 8 mile final at 400 ft agl or lower isn't a huge deal ?
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the title of the thread needs to be changed, egpws at 400 AGL instead of a simple go around, comprende
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Must have been just after sunset.
10nm from Domodedovo Rwy 14 would put them just over the outer edges of the well-lit Moscow suburbs. Reported as Cavok. |
Guys, if you look at it from another angle, would it be possible the crew intercepted and were flying down a ILS sidelobe with a false glide path, which would them shown an on glide indication right until impact.
At 400 agl they then penetrated the terrain clearance floor, and got the GPWS too low terrain. |
False or temporarily spoofed (possible?) GS?
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From the FlightRadar24 .kml file of the EK 131 track the lowest point I see prior to the successful approach is:
2017-09-10 17:53:39 UTC Altitude: 975 ft Speed: 157 kt Heading: 201°
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 9895813)
Avherald has a history of misinterpreting ADS-B data, so the "400 feet AGL" needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
No mention anywhere of the prevailing QNH, so no way of telling what adjustment the transponder data needs in order to produce an accurate height AMSL or AGL, or whether that was done by AH.
Originally Posted by gearlever
(Post 9895831)
uudd 101800z 18004mps cavok 15/11 q1015 r88/010095 nosig
So, 400 feet, 600 feet or 300 feet, it's nowhere an A380 should be on approach that far out. :eek: On the first pass it appears that they never intercepted the centerline for 14R and continued on about a 190 heading for the go around. On the second approach they seemed to make a level pass at approach speed at a FR24 indicated altitude of 2550 feet after overshooting final slightly and then paralleling the extended runway centerline slightly to the left. The third approach appears normal with a dogleg intercept to final and an appropriate descent. |
GoAround of EK-131 on 12. and 13. of Sep as well.
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There muss indeed be more to the story
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If you are flying on QNH, set both sides, it doesn't hurt to put the standby altimeter on QFE? Way, way back I seem to remember we did this very occasionally on the B744, possibly Jo'burg..
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We did the opposite on the Global-main altimeters in QFE, standby on QNH. Gave a cross check.
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A380 Go Around(S)
The only thing I know about A380 is that it is butt ugly!
However, modern airliners that I am familiar with, like the 787,777, and 744 all have radio altimeters that depict absolute height above ground below 2500' AGL. Regardless of problems with setting QNH, QFE, QNE or other pressure measuring instrument. The EGWPS on these aircraft, and I am sure on the A380, is an extremely complicated piece of technology designed to handle just about every screw up, including mine and yours. The thing must have been going crazy when these folks ended up at less than 400' from the ground and nowhere near a landing runway! Especially in day VFR with good visibility. I have no problem with going around, but perhaps airlines like Emirates should take a pause in their quest for conquering the globe and pay more attention to crew rest, training, experience, and overall safety! |
Yes indeed you know nothing about the 380 and trust me it s a great plane to fly and yes it has the all the technology you need even a radio altimeter which starts at 2500 agl and if you read a bit more it was by night 1800 utc in Russia.Your last sentence make a bit more sense
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 9897229)
we don't know the local elevation where they were but it doesn't look like a valley to me
The 975' AMSL point (± the QNH correction, which we now know was negligible) occurred just as the track was approaching the Gorki Leninskiye ("Lenin Hills" - the clue's in the name), one of the highest points in the Greater Moscow area at approximately 720' AMSL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparrow_Hills |
Situational awareness: Fail
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2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 9897635)
Correct.
The 975' AMSL point (± the QNH correction, which we now know was negligible) occurred just as the track was approaching the Gorki Leninskiye ("Lenin Hills" - the clue's in the name), one of the highest points in the Greater Moscow area at approximately 720' AMSL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparrow_Hills 1505066057, 2017-09-10T17:54:17Z, UAE131, "55.502243, 37.761009", 2150, 142, 208 1505066034, 2017-09-10T17:53:54Z, UAE131, "55.515976, 37.767918", 1550, 146, 176 1505066025, 2017-09-10T17:53:45Z, UAE131, "55.523365, 37.767906", 1125, 154, 188 1505066019, 2017-09-10T17:53:39Z, UAE131, "55.527603, 37.769794", 975, 157, 201 1505066012, 2017-09-10T17:53:32Z, UAE131, "55.532257, 37.773743", 1075, 156, 211 1505066005, 2017-09-10T17:53:25Z, UAE131, "55.536346, 37.77932", 1275, 157, 221 1505065999, 2017-09-10T17:53:19Z, UAE131, "55.539001, 37.783482", 1450, 157, 221 1505065992, 2017-09-10T17:53:12Z, UAE131, "55.542572, 37.789223", 1675, 155, 222 the lowest altitude 975 ft is hereabout with local elevation ~580 ft It looks like farm field |
Lenin's hills and Sparrow hills are way too far from each other. |
Originally Posted by Anvaldra
(Post 9897800)
It looks like farm field
The dark area in the bottom left of your first GE screenshot, just below the pin in your second, is start of the wooded hill overlooking the Moscow river, which he would have directly overflown had he continued the left turn onto the runway heading. |
Originally Posted by Anvaldra
(Post 9897800)
the lowest altitude 975 ft is hereabout with local elevation ~580 ft
As mentioned in another thread, for a flight tracking project I've learned how to position a camera point of view precisely in Google Maps/Earth. Using the data above, this should simulate the approximate view from the cockpit at the lowest point in the approach (camera positioned at the respective coordinate, 120m AGL, heading 201°) (click on the link, needs a WebGL capable browser) https://www.google.de/maps/@55.52760.../data=!3m1!1e3 |
Dave, believe me - it's hardly to call it "hill". I drive there often. It's just a relief drop towards Pakhra river (not Moscow, but it matters little)
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FlightAware has this point in its EK 131 dataset which seems to correlate with the FR24 data:
Sun 17:53:36 UTC N55.5289 E37.7707 Course 204° Southwest 156 knots 1,000 feet -200 v/s Reporting Facility: FlightAware ADS-B (DME / UUDD) |
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