HD throws in the towel
 

Well he did say if he couldn't change things for the better after 12 months he would go, and true to his word.

Well done H, plenty more to follow.

The wheels really are falling off.

Two heads of flight ops in less than 2 years.. Yep.. Everything is fine..

The GCAA will be seriously failing in their duty if they don't start asking some serious questions, about EK and it's management given the fact that two senior Flt Ops figures have chucked in the towel in quick succession.

The HoDfather is going.

Say it ain't so !

As I stated earlier, its the "rats leaving the sinking ship analogy".

No level of manager is going to associate his name with a failing/failed operation.

According to Mueller, he has always stated that the only way to save a failing company is to replace all senior managers at once. Lets see but my guess is that Tim and Gary are next.

Its all going to hinge on who takes the top job.

I wouldn't be buying any big ticket items just now.

Next rat is leaving, more to follow!
The whole company is a deadly spiral dive. Wheels have flown off a long time ago.

Sorry to say to those having to stay, but this is really a circus and a clown show. It is actually fun to watch, since there was never any loyality shown to us. Again, apologies to those just joining and those with reasons to stay. I wish you luck, sincerely. Less than 90 days to go.

Just another thought.

He wasn't exactly a "yes man" and I'm sure had his fair share of disagreements with those "managers" above him. Is it possible he was asked to resign?

Not defending him in anyway. However, as an observer I imagine him and others like him to be like Lion cubs hunting Buffalo. They can roar as loud as they like but the Buffalo will barely glance in their direction.

The buffalo in this story are of course local "management".

I will say no more.

Enjoy your turkey this Xmas TICH.

I saw HD in HQ recently. He looked older and rounder. Then I realised, so do I. Time to go.

No one is forced to stay at Emirates. With just about every airline hiring in every region of the globe there are no pilots "having to stay" at Emirates.
Why stay with what the company has shown us? There is no loyalty and no reason to stay.

HD tried, couldn't push through his ideas so he's left. But he tried.

And Puff, it's 'towel'

Alan

He and JA has some good ideas , in favour of the pilots, but we don't know how hard or how far they attempted to push them ie jump seat for one.
Personally I think both are jumping before it sinks , read - next hull loss and the accountability becomes an issue.
Truly now GF2, sad when you think it could have been a great place to be . Stand by for more senior expats to jump ship.

Both of them has less than 7 years here. Hardly a senior.... Without results they are long overdue

I'd agree with Fatty and AP,

The two gents in question did try to make positive changes but kept getting thwarted by ATC and STC, the problematic ego's are in this area.

But as RK states, there is no one making any of us stay. The company has graciously invited each and everyone of us to leave, why not take take advantage of such a kind offer?

Of course there are some who still find this place attractive just as some keep snakes and rats as pets, I guess to each their own.

May 1st is the start of the new company year so expect to see a lot of "egress" in the near future.

Any proof of a chance of recovery will be which office/role CM fills.

Thank for stating the obvious Alan. keyboard key issue not spellin:ugh:

spellin...g

I am sure everyone is most grateful that you caught that.

We have a topic about severe admin problems in a major airline, and some think it important to pick spelling & typo errors....grief!

takin'it easy
 

yes, the subject is really serious.
that's why is nice to be a bit lighthearted.
don't take it personally, please.
I apologize if that made you feel bad, or you took offense for it.
No hard feelings.
KL

ps: it is damn serious, but, can we do anything about it?

HD is headed back to the Éire along with his wife and his soon to start university going lass. Ironically or even coincidentally - perfect timing. His wife was a grade 10+ and he was a 12+ -- in these here desert areas that's wads of earnings. He did try - he honestly did - but with an heavy s a c k of € meant heart he is bidding goodbye. Who can blame him

And most importantly don't forget one thing - he was colleagues with the CM - bigger bolder news is coming. HD leaving isn't even close - best news so to speak is - if you done with your 5 years - PACK THOSE DELSEYS!

I hear this a lot, and as for me I am a product of the way seniority works in my home country, and therefore am a lifer at EK, and so along with many others must keep hope alive that it will get better, or at least not degrade to unsustainable levels.

I suppose someone in my position has to hope that enough others leave, so that it force management to improve the terms for those that must stay. If I were to go home from now the bottom line is my "lifetime earnings" and therefore retirement savings would be a fraction of what it would be if I simply suck it up and stay. It might be momentarily satisfying to throw in the towel and slam the door behind myself, but that momentary satisfaction would soon be replaced by the hard reality that financially and from a professional satisfaction point of view, the place I'm at right now is simply the best it will get for someone in my position.

I'd guess there are many others here in the same position, and I think that this conclusion is bourne out by the fact that the oft cited exodus of pilots - if indeed there really is one - has not yet resulted in either cancelled flights, parked airplanes, nor any improvement in renumeration.

Unfortunately, should I elect to go home now, I'd be at the bottom of a very large seniority list, starting over at Year Zero pay, minimal leave, a huge tax bill, and topped off with a 15 year upgrade in one of the "good" bases, or perhaps 5-10 years upgrade in one of the most expensive, and therefore undesirable bases in the country and perhaps the world.

Add to that the fact that at any of my home airlines, there are literally thousands of pilots who are both SENIOR to me, and YOUNGER than me, and my chances of advancing beyond F.O. at home, and simultaneously holding a good base or equipment become vanishingly small.

The other choices, of moving to Chinese airlines that folks on here constantly gush about, is a non-starter for me, as I'd rather open an Ice Cream truck than live in China, or commute to there. And if any of you think that our Management here take advantage of contractual loopholes, just wait til you see the shenanigans the Chinese management have in store for you, and good luck with the never ending frustration of dealing with their beaurocratic culture!

So for those reasons above, the best we can do is try to make this place the best it can be by whatever means, in order to create a positive working environment for ourselves, and to have a happy outcome at retirement time.

So I, as I suspect many of us are, do hope that many pilots here can find their "greener pastures" -and soon- so that the true shortage of pilots arises here and the contract here gets increased.

Perhaps I should open up a CV writing service and interview preparation consultancy to help this process along, and also make a little extra on the side? :8

Aeropix, never a truer word said

There is no such thing as a "greener pasture on the other side". But ever give a shiny ball to a cat? Yup they gonna flip out and we are the dumb cats. And all you need to do is do a run of the new pilots on HRDirect to find how many new joiners this year - sadly not too many. And yes there are flight getting cancelled no matter what you think. And yes you are right it isn't as bad as china or the other shiny balls. But what it's lacking is "reality" - nowhere in this world does inflation go up, my children's schooling go up, housing go up but my salary doesn't. And nowhere do I not even at the minute level get to take a holiday that I so CONTRACTUALLY deserve. Did you know that non ops staff have been offered unpaid leave. Yup when that happens they are trying their best to save every penny they can - so no matter how much they boast that in itself is bad times. Good luck Mr HD you have possibly made the best move ever.........

aeropix, Some nice words of justification. It depends mainly on your age. 10 years or less until retirement, probably a fair choice to stay. Where is your protection from one bad go-around or the like. Protection from perceived "insult" of the protected class. Just notice how they use "FOQA" data here.

Just some facts, Delta...captain at 18 months on a regular roster (ATL). Southwest....long upgrade but hiring 59 year olds, UPS....see above, United....almost half of the seniority retiring over the next five years, AA....no synergy from the merger, but with Airways pilots retiring at a rapid rate. Alaska....very senior list, even with the VA merger/acquisition. Just some data of the Legacy/Major airlines.

My point is, if the US is your base or have the right to work there, there has been never a better time for hiring since the '60s. There are a number of reasons to remain here, but IMHO the state of airline hiring and being on the bottom of a seniority list in the US is not a reason to stay.

EK has lost pilots to Delta, United, UPS, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue within the last year, just to name those I'm sure of.

Just to add to the above, an ex-EK guy who started at Delta this January '17 has just become eligible for Captain. Four months.

Aero pix's post perfectly sums up why things will never get better for EK pilots. The fact that it was quickly seconded only illustrates it more.

Woe is me. It's too hard to move home. The contract jobs on offer aren't perfect. I want more of my colleagues to leave and fewer guys to join so management has to do more to make me stay (although I will not leave regardless of how bad they treat me)

Pathetic, really. Literally hundreds of EK guys have left in the last few years. Very, very few of them regret that decision. Many of them wish they had made the decision earlier. Heaps of very good jobs are around. None of them are perfect, many of them are a hell of a lot better than EK, but you have to get off your ars* and make an effort.

But you keep wallowing in your self-pity and waiting for others to make your life better. Those with similar attitudes make it easy for managers and ensure mid-East Pprune will be entertaining to read for years to come.

^^ That sums it up right.

Is it apathy or Stockholm Syndrome?

No offence taken. I mis-read the levity. Thanks for the response.
Tom

TT,

Thats probably one of the best posts I have ever read on this site...

Aeropix: great post but a bit unrealistic, never mind, someone has to switch off the lights here at last. Good luck!

As pilots you are always ahead of the airplane and you know what's coming from the present state of the flight.
When you think about the company and your job future you should apply the same concept. Forget about the meteoric rise and fairly pleasant cruise so far. The most basic business assumptions on revenue, cost and profit are no longer playing out. In other words the company is losing energy rapidly.
What if your culture prevented you from thinking about avoiding a stall? What if you insisted on executing a flight plan drafted a long time ago in a cosy office? What if you relieved your FO from duty because he called out the dropping Air Speed?
Don't believe for one minute that the realities of Global competition are more forgiving than the physics of flight. What is about to happen to EK is as unavoidable as an unmitigated stall.
When you bank your family's future on the rest of the EK journey you should not draw on past experience. The future will be very different. The longer they deny the truth, the less control they will have over the descent.

Anyone know the exact pilot numbers from your excel sheet?

Here's the thing, I go to work, I do my think, I milk EK of EVERYTHING I can. I'll keep at it until either it goes pop or I decide one of my buckets are full. Getting upset at the asinine and archaic mentality here is a complete waste of time. When the roster gets too much the number 2 is pressed and at the subsequent "attendance" meeting I'm told it's a box ticking exercise on their part, so for me it's the same.
The job is an ATM machine, nothing more...I couldn't give 2 sh1ts what a Delta or BA or Qantas person earns, if you don't like it leave, it's really rather simple, getting angry about it merely makes you look like a fool for even contemplating that you are viewed in any better light the the wobbly headed construction worker.

If someone gave me a dirham every time I thought those exact words!! Considering there are a lot of mercenaries on here, I'm not all that surprised how many times guys on here do compare.

Ah, the conceited arrogance of knowing you're right, have you worked for EK?

Some here do have reason to stay, just because you want to be the duty hero and lead the charge doesn't mean you're right. There are many who have left and are happy, there are also those who would not jump so quickly if given a second chance.

The simple fact remains that no job is perfect, but if you've had enough you'll move on. Someone having a different point of view from yours doesn't make either correct and neither does your condescending post.

Best thing ive read here as thats exactly what I do..

Milk the system to the MAX until I ME decide when ive had enough and get out... family go home this summer one way so everything is lining up nicely :ok::ok::ok:

Intentional:ok:

A different perspective. I left EK a year ago. I'm now working elsewhere. I'm well paid, I genuinely like the people for whom I work. I respect them, they respect me. I get 121.5 days leave a year.
I was at Emirates for a long long time. I honestly didn't mind it. But on the other side what strikes me the most now is just how truly unpleasant the management attitude to the pilots was/is at EK. Perhaps it stems from the general Arab arrogance. Who knows. It's obviously going downhill fast. I'll bet the weekly bottom line is shocking. Get your licenses / ratings in order ASAP. I'm not in China and perusing the China Southern thread (take a look) there is no way on gods earth I'd work for any of that lot. But there are alternatives. And although the move seems hard, it's always that way before you actually do it. As has been alluded to in previous posts. How can anyone feel any loyalty to these people, who have treated hard working dedicated professionals with utter contempt.
It's nice to be in a different environment now. I am much much happier and that's in no small part due to the absence of the sword of Damaclese (correct my spelling !) not dangling over my head in every way.

Wizard1 nice perspective!

I don't work for EK because I want respect from management, I couldn't give a rats. I actually pity them because as others have mentioned in previous post, I'm here for me! When I'm done building up what I came for, I'll be out of here.

Having been at an airline that closed the doors, I saw the handwriting on the wall. I got out before they locked the doors. Those who stayed, for whatever reason, did not fair so well. What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier to find a position when you are current and employed vs. going non current and unemployed. The stall analogy is spot on. We are all drilled on Situational Awareness and Decision Making....think this is any different?